Topics

windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible


 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 01:24 PM, Carlos wrote:
Is One Drive able to serve as a backup for restoring Windows so one does not have to install everything from scratch?
The answer to that is yes, but not all that easily.  Getting into the details of why is not on-topic here.  If you want to discuss this further create a topic in the Chat Subgroup with a title along the lines of, "Using One Drive for storing system images," and I'll pick it up there.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Carlos
 

Hello!

    Is One Drive able to serve as a backup for restoring Windows so one does not have to install everything from scratch?

    I have Microsoft 365, so backup space is not an issue.

    So if I do a clean restore of Windows 10 I can get all my software back all at once instead of getting it back piece-by-piece.

    Thank You! For your response!


On 5/9/2020 10:06 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 11:09 PM, Deenadayalan Moodley wrote:
So, This [a backup and recovery routine that is fully accessible] can be done, it does need lots of additional knowledge to make work.
And, therein, lies the problem.  I am a tech geek, I understand most, if not all, of what's being discussed as being involved in doing this.  Realistically, most end users don't and never will.  They have absolutely no interest in getting this involved in delving "under the hood."

I applaud anyone who does.  But I also know that my personal concern, and that's whether a client is blind or sighted, is that they have a backup protocol in place and that they are able to take the backups independently on whatever cycle is dictated by their personal circumstances.   If they need to recover from within Windows, that's already accessible under most of the software out there, and if they need to do a disaster recovery, it's generally not.  Having to hire someone to come in and actually do a disaster recovery is cheap, very cheap, compared to losing years worth of work and data, and way, way cheaper than engaging professional data recovery services on a failed drive.

I am far more concerned that the average user, blind or sighted, is taking backups so they're available for recovery, than I am about their ability to do the recovery independently.  God willing, they'll never need to use the backup, but if they don't have it to use and they have a catastrophic failure, then they are well and truly up the proverbial creek, in whitewater flooding stage, sans paddle.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 

-- 
Carlos - Windows 10 Home, 64 Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 - NVDA Version 2019.3


 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 11:09 PM, Deenadayalan Moodley wrote:
So, This [a backup and recovery routine that is fully accessible] can be done, it does need lots of additional knowledge to make work.
And, therein, lies the problem.  I am a tech geek, I understand most, if not all, of what's being discussed as being involved in doing this.  Realistically, most end users don't and never will.  They have absolutely no interest in getting this involved in delving "under the hood."

I applaud anyone who does.  But I also know that my personal concern, and that's whether a client is blind or sighted, is that they have a backup protocol in place and that they are able to take the backups independently on whatever cycle is dictated by their personal circumstances.   If they need to recover from within Windows, that's already accessible under most of the software out there, and if they need to do a disaster recovery, it's generally not.  Having to hire someone to come in and actually do a disaster recovery is cheap, very cheap, compared to losing years worth of work and data, and way, way cheaper than engaging professional data recovery services on a failed drive.

I am far more concerned that the average user, blind or sighted, is taking backups so they're available for recovery, than I am about their ability to do the recovery independently.  God willing, they'll never need to use the backup, but if they don't have it to use and they have a catastrophic failure, then they are well and truly up the proverbial creek, in whitewater flooding stage, sans paddle.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Dan Beaver
 

Nope, I did that and it wouldn't read the dialog either.


Sorry, I should have mentioned that before.


Dan Beaver

On 5/9/2020 3:35 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Try it with Narrator.

Sometimes it works well for these onetime problems.

It is no NVDA, but it does help some times.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Deenadayalan Moodley
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 11:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

Hi Dan,

 

Well, I had to do the same thing on Thursday.

 

You are correct that NVDA reads the beginning of the recovery wizard.

 

You can accessibly get to the recovery wizard and go through the steps to point where you start the recovery process thereafter, NVDA only reads the Cancel button.  Using Objective Nav or any other methods does not read anything on the screen.  Even when dialogs come up, they are not read.

 

When doing my recovery disk, I was asked to insert a 16GB memory stick which I did but, this was insufficient.  I got an error and had to get sighted assistance to realise that a dialog was on the screen.

 

Once I ran through the process once more, I inserted a 32 GB memory stick, the process completed but, NVDA did not read the success message and I had to use object nav to eventually find the “finish” button to dismiss the dialog. This is not accessible.

 

Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Thursday, 07 May 2020 22:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

I decided I needed to create a fresh recovery drive.  I discovered that NVDA speaks the buttons but nothing else.  Has anyone else seen this?  Is this an NVDA issue or a windows system issue?

 

Thanks.

 

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)
-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Angelo Sonnesso
 

What additional programs did you add?

 

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Deenadayalan Moodley
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 11:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

Hi Brian,

 

As some one who has done this on numerous times, it can be done.  Making backup accessible is great but, you only have the option to use a talking WINPE to do the restore.  As indicated in a previous message, I have created a flash drive with various additional software.

 

All I do is boot of the flash drive which loads the win PE and run the restore from there.  I have software on the disk which allows me to even run various other tools to check hardware etc.  Most of these programs are portable and do not need to be installed.

 

I even used GRML which is a talking Linux to do a restore when my hard drive got corrupted. Like most things, there are times when you need a pair of eyes and that’s when services such as “be my eyes” can come to the rescue… I generally stay away from the so-called rescue disks because these do not have speech.

 

So, This can be done, it does need lots of additional knowledge to make work.

 

Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, 08 May 2020 02:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Bob Jutzi wrote:

I'm not sure what's being referred to as I'm using the most recent Insider preview 19624 and there still is the accessible option of creating a recovery drive.  Quickest way to find it is entering Recovery in the search box and the Create a Recovery drive option is displayed.

The Recovery drive is nothing more than a tool for restoring a backup, and unless you have a version (not created directly by Windows) that uses Windows PE with a screen reader built-in, it's not accessible either.

For those that are also members of the JAWS for Windows Support Group there is a huge ongoing conversation occurring there about this.

I feel, in certain ways, like I'm talking to walls over there.  There exist several "very geeky" options, which require using talking Windows PE, that are accessible, but are not simple to implement, if you wish to be able to do both ends of the process - system image backup and restore from a system image - with full accessibility.  And when I say "restore from a system image" I'm not talking about doing this from within Windows, as it is the rare case where one does a restore from within Windows.  I care about folks being able to do a recovery from a catastrophic failure, most typically the failure of your main system drive, and I have yet to see any reasonably easy utility that supports this.  Some are recommending Image For Windows, which I have never used.

I have written tutorials on taking backups using Macrium Reflect Free, which is an excellent utility, and which is 100% accessible for taking system image backups.  But it is not accessible for a system restore from a catastrophic failure (like virtually every thing else) because the bootable recovery environment is not Windows and does not include a screen reader.

My main concern is that people actually take full system image backups whether or not they can personally do a restore in the event of catastrophic failure or not.  Most of my sighted clients have no idea how to do a recovery (even if you teach them, unless you have the opportunity to practice - and heaven forbid you do - you forget) and have to call in assistance.

No matter what you may end up doing, it's far more critical to take system image backups so they are available for someone to recover using them, than it is to be able to actually do said recovery independently.  

Here's the tutorial on Macrium Reflect to create full system image backups:  Using Macrium Reflect Free with a Screen Reader

 

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Angelo Sonnesso
 

Try it with Narrator.

Sometimes it works well for these onetime problems.

It is no NVDA, but it does help some times.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Deenadayalan Moodley
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 11:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

Hi Dan,

 

Well, I had to do the same thing on Thursday.

 

You are correct that NVDA reads the beginning of the recovery wizard.

 

You can accessibly get to the recovery wizard and go through the steps to point where you start the recovery process thereafter, NVDA only reads the Cancel button.  Using Objective Nav or any other methods does not read anything on the screen.  Even when dialogs come up, they are not read.

 

When doing my recovery disk, I was asked to insert a 16GB memory stick which I did but, this was insufficient.  I got an error and had to get sighted assistance to realise that a dialog was on the screen.

 

Once I ran through the process once more, I inserted a 32 GB memory stick, the process completed but, NVDA did not read the success message and I had to use object nav to eventually find the “finish” button to dismiss the dialog. This is not accessible.

 

Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Thursday, 07 May 2020 22:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

I decided I needed to create a fresh recovery drive.  I discovered that NVDA speaks the buttons but nothing else.  Has anyone else seen this?  Is this an NVDA issue or a windows system issue?

 

Thanks.

 

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Deenadayalan Moodley
 

Hi Dan,

 

Well, I had to do the same thing on Thursday.

 

You are correct that NVDA reads the beginning of the recovery wizard.

 

You can accessibly get to the recovery wizard and go through the steps to point where you start the recovery process thereafter, NVDA only reads the Cancel button.  Using Objective Nav or any other methods does not read anything on the screen.  Even when dialogs come up, they are not read.

 

When doing my recovery disk, I was asked to insert a 16GB memory stick which I did but, this was insufficient.  I got an error and had to get sighted assistance to realise that a dialog was on the screen.

 

Once I ran through the process once more, I inserted a 32 GB memory stick, the process completed but, NVDA did not read the success message and I had to use object nav to eventually find the “finish” button to dismiss the dialog. This is not accessible.

 

Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Thursday, 07 May 2020 22:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

I decided I needed to create a fresh recovery drive.  I discovered that NVDA speaks the buttons but nothing else.  Has anyone else seen this?  Is this an NVDA issue or a windows system issue?

 

Thanks.

 

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Deenadayalan Moodley
 

Hi Brian,

 

As some one who has done this on numerous times, it can be done.  Making backup accessible is great but, you only have the option to use a talking WINPE to do the restore.  As indicated in a previous message, I have created a flash drive with various additional software.

 

All I do is boot of the flash drive which loads the win PE and run the restore from there.  I have software on the disk which allows me to even run various other tools to check hardware etc.  Most of these programs are portable and do not need to be installed.

 

I even used GRML which is a talking Linux to do a restore when my hard drive got corrupted. Like most things, there are times when you need a pair of eyes and that’s when services such as “be my eyes” can come to the rescue… I generally stay away from the so-called rescue disks because these do not have speech.

 

So, This can be done, it does need lots of additional knowledge to make work.

 

Thanks.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, 08 May 2020 02:40
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Bob Jutzi wrote:

I'm not sure what's being referred to as I'm using the most recent Insider preview 19624 and there still is the accessible option of creating a recovery drive.  Quickest way to find it is entering Recovery in the search box and the Create a Recovery drive option is displayed.

The Recovery drive is nothing more than a tool for restoring a backup, and unless you have a version (not created directly by Windows) that uses Windows PE with a screen reader built-in, it's not accessible either.

For those that are also members of the JAWS for Windows Support Group there is a huge ongoing conversation occurring there about this.

I feel, in certain ways, like I'm talking to walls over there.  There exist several "very geeky" options, which require using talking Windows PE, that are accessible, but are not simple to implement, if you wish to be able to do both ends of the process - system image backup and restore from a system image - with full accessibility.  And when I say "restore from a system image" I'm not talking about doing this from within Windows, as it is the rare case where one does a restore from within Windows.  I care about folks being able to do a recovery from a catastrophic failure, most typically the failure of your main system drive, and I have yet to see any reasonably easy utility that supports this.  Some are recommending Image For Windows, which I have never used.

I have written tutorials on taking backups using Macrium Reflect Free, which is an excellent utility, and which is 100% accessible for taking system image backups.  But it is not accessible for a system restore from a catastrophic failure (like virtually every thing else) because the bootable recovery environment is not Windows and does not include a screen reader.

My main concern is that people actually take full system image backups whether or not they can personally do a restore in the event of catastrophic failure or not.  Most of my sighted clients have no idea how to do a recovery (even if you teach them, unless you have the opportunity to practice - and heaven forbid you do - you forget) and have to call in assistance.

No matter what you may end up doing, it's far more critical to take system image backups so they are available for someone to recover using them, than it is to be able to actually do said recovery independently.  

Here's the tutorial on Macrium Reflect to create full system image backups:  Using Macrium Reflect Free with a Screen Reader

 

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


 

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Bob Jutzi wrote:
I'm not sure what's being referred to as I'm using the most recent Insider preview 19624 and there still is the accessible option of creating a recovery drive.  Quickest way to find it is entering Recovery in the search box and the Create a Recovery drive option is displayed.
The Recovery drive is nothing more than a tool for restoring a backup, and unless you have a version (not created directly by Windows) that uses Windows PE with a screen reader built-in, it's not accessible either.

For those that are also members of the JAWS for Windows Support Group there is a huge ongoing conversation occurring there about this.

I feel, in certain ways, like I'm talking to walls over there.  There exist several "very geeky" options, which require using talking Windows PE, that are accessible, but are not simple to implement, if you wish to be able to do both ends of the process - system image backup and restore from a system image - with full accessibility.  And when I say "restore from a system image" I'm not talking about doing this from within Windows, as it is the rare case where one does a restore from within Windows.  I care about folks being able to do a recovery from a catastrophic failure, most typically the failure of your main system drive, and I have yet to see any reasonably easy utility that supports this.  Some are recommending Image For Windows, which I have never used.

I have written tutorials on taking backups using Macrium Reflect Free, which is an excellent utility, and which is 100% accessible for taking system image backups.  But it is not accessible for a system restore from a catastrophic failure (like virtually every thing else) because the bootable recovery environment is not Windows and does not include a screen reader.

My main concern is that people actually take full system image backups whether or not they can personally do a restore in the event of catastrophic failure or not.  Most of my sighted clients have no idea how to do a recovery (even if you teach them, unless you have the opportunity to practice - and heaven forbid you do - you forget) and have to call in assistance.

No matter what you may end up doing, it's far more critical to take system image backups so they are available for someone to recover using them, than it is to be able to actually do said recovery independently.  

Here's the tutorial on Macrium Reflect to create full system image backups:  Using Macrium Reflect Free with a Screen Reader

 

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Bob Jutzi
 

I'm not sure what's being referred to as I'm using the most recent Insider preview 19624 and there still is the accessible option of creating a recovery drive.  Quickest way to find it is entering Recovery in the search box and the Create a Recovery drive option is displayed.

On 5/7/2020 7:17 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I presume you're talking about the Backup and Restore (Windows 7) utility that is, as of this writing, still a part of Windows 10.  Don't use it, as its core component has ceased development and was deprecated all the way back in Version 1709.  Microsoft recommends using the third-party utility of your choosing.

Microsoft Announcement of Deprecated Features, including SIB [Backup and Restore (Windows 7)]

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 



Richard Kuzma
 

Good evening,

I use image for windows, it is not free however.

It costs around thirty or fourty bucks, but is completely accessible.

It is a drive image backup software.

It works perfectly and have been using it here for a few years.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Rich

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Beaver
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows program for creating a recovery drive is not fully accessible

 

Hmmmm, then what programs are there that are accessible to do this?  I would be mostly interested in free if possible.

 

Dan Beaver

On 5/7/2020 7:17 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

I presume you're talking about the Backup and Restore (Windows 7) utility that is, as of this writing, still a part of Windows 10.  Don't use it, as its core component has ceased development and was deprecated all the way back in Version 1709.  Microsoft recommends using the third-party utility of your choosing.

Microsoft Announcement of Deprecated Features, including SIB [Backup and Restore (Windows 7)]

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Dan Beaver
 

Hmmmm, then what programs are there that are accessible to do this?  I would be mostly interested in free if possible.


Dan Beaver

On 5/7/2020 7:17 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I presume you're talking about the Backup and Restore (Windows 7) utility that is, as of this writing, still a part of Windows 10.  Don't use it, as its core component has ceased development and was deprecated all the way back in Version 1709.  Microsoft recommends using the third-party utility of your choosing.

Microsoft Announcement of Deprecated Features, including SIB [Backup and Restore (Windows 7)]

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


 

I presume you're talking about the Backup and Restore (Windows 7) utility that is, as of this writing, still a part of Windows 10.  Don't use it, as its core component has ceased development and was deprecated all the way back in Version 1709.  Microsoft recommends using the third-party utility of your choosing.

Microsoft Announcement of Deprecated Features, including SIB [Backup and Restore (Windows 7)]

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Dan Beaver
 

I decided I needed to create a fresh recovery drive.  I discovered that NVDA speaks the buttons but nothing else.  Has anyone else seen this?  Is this an NVDA issue or a windows system issue?


Thanks.



-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)