Topics

How does NVDA read text boxes?


Ann Byrne
 

I received a word document that appeared to be blank. Turns out it is a series of 15 text boxes of information. How can I read stinkin' text boxes with NVDA???

Thanks


Martin O'Sullivan
 


here is one way of doing it.

This works because,once you are in a text box (or picture or other object) you can press TAB to move between them. 

here is what you need to do.
1 Save the document, to keep any changes you want to keep .
2 Add a text box into a document by pressing alt+n, x, enter
3 Press escape once (so you are out of the text itself but the text box is still selected),
4 You can press TAB to move between the objects in the document (this wraps so if you press TAB on the last object in the document it will jump back to the first object). 
5 Remove the text box you just added, by exiting the document without saving changes.

Text boxes are difficult for a screen reader to access.






--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
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On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Ann Byrne <annakb@...> wrote:
I received a  word document that appeared to be blank.  Turns out it is a series of 15 text boxes of information.  How can I read stinkin' text boxes with NVDA???

Thanks






Adriani Botez
 

Why is it difficult for the screen reader to recognize text fields? If they would be defined as objects in the source code I think there would not be a problem. Or am I wrong?

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Martin O'Sullivan
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Dezember 2017 15:11
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?

 


here is one way of doing it.

This works because,once you are in a text box (or picture or other object) you can press TAB to move between them. 

here is what you need to do.

1 Save the document, to keep any changes you want to keep .
2 Add a text box into a document by pressing alt+n, x, enter

3 Press escape once (so you are out of the text itself but the text box is still selected),
4 You can press TAB to move between the objects in the document (this wraps so if you press TAB on the last object in the document it will jump back to the first object). 
5 Remove the text box you just added, by exiting the document without saving changes.

Text boxes are difficult for a screen reader to access.

 

 

 



--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."  Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland

 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Ann Byrne <annakb@...> wrote:

I received a  word document that appeared to be blank.  Turns out it is a series of 15 text boxes of information.  How can I read stinkin' text boxes with NVDA???

Thanks



 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I had terrible trouble in word with supernova and different versions of word seemed to completely screw it up each time as well. I often wondered why when Microsoft was writing a new version, they did not make finding the objects and the things inside them more easy from the screenreader point of view. I did try Jaws once back on XP but found that awful as well.

On the other hand of course, many sighted people find creating and using such presentation items a bit less than intuitive as well. maybe we just don't need them in the first place.
Hides behind sofa.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin O'Sullivan" <osumartin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?


Hi Ann

This discussion came up before, at
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/2261984?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

here is one way of doing it.

This works because,once you are in a text box (or picture or other object)
you can press TAB to move between them.

here is what you need to do.
1 Save the document, to keep any changes you want to keep .
2 Add a text box into a document by pressing alt+n, x, enter
3 Press escape once (so you are out of the text itself but the text box is
still selected),
4 You can press TAB to move between the objects in the document (this wraps
so if you press TAB on the last object in the document it will jump back to
the first object).
5 Remove the text box you just added, by exiting the document without
saving changes.

Text boxes are difficult for a screen reader to access.

You can read the full article at
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/topic/2261984?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0





--
Martin O'Sullivan
‎"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the
poor have no food, they call me a communist." Hélder Câmara

"Act your way into a feeling don’t feel your way into Action" (Gandhi)
"Be the change you want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the
victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." (Elie
Wiesel )
Tel: +353878289243
web: www.PeopleBeforeProfit.ie
E-mail osumartin@...
Skype martin_osullivan
Google talk osumartin
yahoo messenger maritinosullivanirl
Street address
APT 29 Falcons View
Blanchardstown Centre
Blanchardstown
Dublin 15
Co Dublin
Ireland



On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Ann Byrne <annakb@...> wrote:

I received a word document that appeared to be blank. Turns out it is a
series of 15 text boxes of information. How can I read stinkin' text boxes
with NVDA???

Thanks





Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I gave up and asked them to take them out, since nobody I knew no matter what screenreader they used seemed to be able to solve the problem either.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Byrne" <annakb@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?


I received a word document that appeared to be blank. Turns out it is a series of 15 text boxes of information. How can I read stinkin' text boxes with NVDA???

Thanks



Quentin Christensen
 

When you write text in Word, or add in a table or many other items, they are placed "in line".  That is you can follow the caret through the document in a linear fashion from the first word through to the end.

Text boxes are placed (by default) outside this regular flow of the document.  The advantage of this (for sighted users) is that you can have a chunk of text which sits separately from the rest of the page.  Sometimes in a magazine for instance, you might have two columns of text on one page, but in between them (and taking up part of each) is a box with text in a different font containing a key quote out of the article.  If you were reading it visually, your eye might jump to that quote before reading the article and it might form part of your decision about whether to read the main article.  Or, you might read the quote in between paragraphs when you are next to it in the article itself, or at the end.  There is no right time to read it.  If you are reading that page with a screen reader, the screen reader doesn't see it in the normal flow of text.  Now, it's true we could possibly do more to look for such text boxes, but we would still need to make some arbitrary decision on when to either read or notify the user about them.

Word's accessibility checker will notify a document creator about non in-line text boxes.  Currently we will find text boxes which have been set in line and these are announced as "slash": https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6134

Overall, it's generally best to try to avoid using text boxes where possible.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I gave up and asked them to take them out, since nobody I knew no matter what screenreader they used seemed to be able to solve the problem either.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Byrne" <annakb@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?


I received a  word document that appeared to be blank.  Turns out it is a series of 15 text boxes of information.  How can I read stinkin' text boxes with NVDA???

Thanks











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Let me tell you a story. I got a diet sheet from Diabetes UK in Word format. Every single bit of text except their contact details and other sundry stuff was in a text box.
This in effect meant it was completely unreadable to me.
At least in the sense of being in the order the eye saw it.

I ended up sending it back to the Doctors practice who sent it and the poor lady had to remove all the boxes and reformat the file. OK you may say that the original creator should really have thought of this, but its my experience they seldom do. its the same people who produce untagged pdfs which do not tag reading order when columns are in use or tend to put the pages in the order that an a5 booklet printed on a4 paper folded in half would need.
I suppose we need more education, but it would be really nice if we had some way to try and get at least some sense out of such documents so we could make a decision what to actually do.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?


When you write text in Word, or add in a table or many other items, they
are placed "in line". That is you can follow the caret through the
document in a linear fashion from the first word through to the end.

Text boxes are placed (by default) outside this regular flow of the
document. The advantage of this (for sighted users) is that you can have a
chunk of text which sits separately from the rest of the page. Sometimes
in a magazine for instance, you might have two columns of text on one page,
but in between them (and taking up part of each) is a box with text in a
different font containing a key quote out of the article. If you were
reading it visually, your eye might jump to that quote before reading the
article and it might form part of your decision about whether to read the
main article. Or, you might read the quote in between paragraphs when you
are next to it in the article itself, or at the end. There is no right
time to read it. If you are reading that page with a screen reader, the
screen reader doesn't see it in the normal flow of text. Now, it's true we
could possibly do more to look for such text boxes, but we would still need
to make some arbitrary decision on when to either read or notify the user
about them.

Word's accessibility checker will notify a document creator about non
in-line text boxes. Currently we will find text boxes which have been set
in line and these are announced as "slash":
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6134

Overall, it's generally best to try to avoid using text boxes where
possible.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I gave up and asked them to take them out, since nobody I knew no matter
what screenreader they used seemed to be able to solve the problem either.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Byrne" <annakb@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] How does NVDA read text boxes?


I received a word document that appeared to be blank. Turns out it is a
series of 15 text boxes of information. How can I read stinkin' text boxes
with NVDA???

Thanks







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess