Hi everyone,
Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way to achieve this with NVDA?
So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way.
Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level from the contents.
I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
Any advice would be appreciated! Tony
|
|
I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end.
Bill
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way to achieve this with NVDA?
So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way.
Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level from the contents.
I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
Any advice would be appreciated! Tony
|
|
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote: I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end.
Bill
On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
Hi everyone,
Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way to achieve this with NVDA?
So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way.
Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level from the contents.
I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
Any advice would be appreciated! Tony
|
|
I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the
cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to move to
the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that would save
you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to
move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be
cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see
if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and
why.
Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a
feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance
from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that
starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You could
issue a next and a back command to move to these items. So the idea may
lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed.
By the way, you don't have to issue the command
twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple
solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location)
and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The
greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment. I
think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it
myself. Tony On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill
Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires
changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6,
2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh < anton.malykh@...>
wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many
websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example, reddit,
hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like this.
Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >> example I
would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the >> deeper
levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level >> comments,
and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way >> to
achieve this with NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to
have a key combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right
now I can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a
keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every
comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level comment
is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way. >> >>
Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of
the >> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through
the >> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its
level >> from the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox,
Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of
these browsers. >> >> Any advice would be
appreciated! >>
Tony >> >> >> >> > >
>
|
|
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but
it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in
Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons
to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows
the system cursor in my case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it
indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I
assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal
offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be
used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between
paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a
plugin myself when I have some free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I haven't tried this but I don't
see how using the cursor location feature would help much.
You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment
and check the distance. If that would save you time in not
having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to
move to the next comment and check the distance of each
comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much
easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a
reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and
why.
Perhaps what we need, if this can
be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text
that starts a certain distance from the left side of the
screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts
at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You
could issue a next and a back command to move to these items.
So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can
be developed.
By the way, you don't have to
issue the command twice. It does the same thing if issued
once or more times.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution:
press
Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and
it will
tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The
greater the
distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make
the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a
browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the
comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge
of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote:
> I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires
changes on the site’s end.
>
> Bill
>
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For
>> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more
websites are
>> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments,
but for
>> example I would like to read only the top-level comments,
and not the
>> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the
top-level
>> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is
there any way
>> to achieve this with NVDA?
>>
>> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination
to jump to the
>> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the
next comment
>> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or
something, that
>> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to
deduce in my mind
>> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse
comments this way.
>>
>> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the
level of the
>> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down
through the
>> comments without reading them and without trying to
deduce its level
>> from the contents.
>>
>> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy
to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
|
Yes, the review cursor does follow the focus by default. You have to turn that off if you do not want it. If you go to the review cursor under the preferences menu, the first check box will be to check have review cursor follow the focus. If that is unchecked, you need to check that. Have a great one! That is why it works for you. I am so happy you are using NVDA. Please ask any questions at all about add ons or anything. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: Tony MalykhSent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 7:22 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case. After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used. I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time. Tony On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote: I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed. By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way >> to achieve this with NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level >> from the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated! >> Tony >> >> >> >> > > >
|
|
I ask a question in this message and make a few
comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related
command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there
is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon.
The review cursor by default if you are using
object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if you
only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every
comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is better than
reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue. But
maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to
matter.
Evidently, the speak position command has more
functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that
to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice.
Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next
occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be
related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with two
or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be
able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right. Then
you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read
column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was
very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA:
Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where
pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization occur,
if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the
columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents.
Genea distance from the left of the screen
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for
me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I
don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the
review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed
speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After
pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen
width. So either way can be used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs
with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some
free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't tried this but I don't see how using
the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to
move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that
would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but
having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment
would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of
each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain
that I'm wrong and why.
Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a
feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain
distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next
text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the
screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these
items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be
developed.
By the way, you don't have to issue the command
twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple
solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor
location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the
screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the
comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side
to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write
a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the
comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge
of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it
myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill
Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires
changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6,
2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many
websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example,
reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like
this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >>
example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not
the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the
top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is
there any way >> to achieve this with NVDA? >> >>
So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to
the >> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next
comment >> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or
something, that >> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have
to deduce in my mind >> what level comment is this. It is very
tedious to browse comments this way. >> >> Another way that
might help me would be to figure out the level of the >> current
comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the >> comments
without reading them and without trying to deduce its level >> from
the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE,
so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these
browsers. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated! >>
Tony >> >> >> >> > >
>
|
|
Gene,
Why not creating an issue on github about that? I think your idea is very worth to think about.
Best Adriani Von meinem iPhone gesendet
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I ask a question in this message and make a few
comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related
command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there
is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon.
The review cursor by default if you are using
object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if you
only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every
comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is better than
reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue. But
maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to
matter.
Evidently, the speak position command has more
functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that
to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice.
Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next
occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be
related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with two
or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be
able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right. Then
you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read
column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was
very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA:
Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where
pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization occur,
if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the
columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents.
Genea distance from the left of the screen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for
me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I
don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the
review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed
speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After
pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen
width. So either way can be used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs
with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some
free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't tried this but I don't see how using
the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to
move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that
would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but
having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment
would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of
each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain
that I'm wrong and why.
Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a
feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain
distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next
text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the
screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these
items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be
developed.
By the way, you don't have to issue the command
twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple
solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor
location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the
screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the
comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side
to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write
a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the
comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge
of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it
myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill
Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires
changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6,
2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many
websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example,
reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like
this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >>
example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not
the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the
top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is
there any way >> to achieve this with NVDA? >> >>
So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to
the >> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next
comment >> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or
something, that >> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have
to deduce in my mind >> what level comment is this. It is very
tedious to browse comments this way. >> >> Another way that
might help me would be to figure out the level of the >> current
comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the >> comments
without reading them and without trying to deduce its level >> from
the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE,
so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these
browsers. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated! >>
Tony >> >> >> >> > >
>
|
|
Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the
level of comment by its contents, but I found it was too hard.
Some posts have several hundreds of comments. Every top level
comment might have a tree of a few dozen replies. And depending on
the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear at all whether
the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also my brain gets
tired of trying to deduce the level of the comment. Now since I
get the offset of a comment directly, it is going to be much
easier for my brain, since I would need to listen and only compare
the number (offset being equal to the top-level comment offset).
Tony
On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I ask a question in this message
and make a few comments but the second half of the message
discusses what might be a related command, at least in terms
of how you would program it. Perhaps if there is enough
interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon.
The review cursor by default if
you are using object navigation follows the system cursor.
But what I'm saying is if you only want to read the top level
comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and
measure the distance? My question is how that is better than
reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to
continue. But maybe you have to read enough of each comment
that it is slower enough to matter.
Evidently, the speak position
command has more functions than in the old version of NVDA I
use. So you are correct that to hear the numbers, you have to
issue the command twice.
Also, the idea of being able to jump to
the next occurrence of text starting a certain point from
the left of the screen might be related to another feature
NVDA should have. If you have a page with two or three
columns or more and you want to only read one column, you
should be able to define a start point and an end point
farther to the right. Then you could read and only have
that defineed column read. ASAP had a read column feature
in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was
very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA:
Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF
document where pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather
than have decolumnization occur, if you could just have the
page recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns
yourself, you might be able to read such documents.
Genea distance from the left of the
screen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but
it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in
Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra
buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor
just follows the system cursor in my case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and
it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I
assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal
offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be
used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump
between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write
such a plugin myself when I have some free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't tried this but I
don't see how using the cursor location feature would help
much. You would still have to move to the beginning of each
comment and check the distance. If that would save you time
in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but
having to move to the next comment and check the distance of
each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not
much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if
it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm
wrong and why.
Perhaps what we need, if this
can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look
for text that starts a certain distance from the left side
of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that
starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the
screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move
to these items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if
such a feature can be developed.
By the way, you don't have to
issue the command twice. It does the same thing if issued
once or more times.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree
of comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple
solution: press
Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and
it will
tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The
greater the
distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to
make the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a
browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the
comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge
of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote:
> I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires
changes on the site’s end.
>
> Bill
>
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For
>> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more
websites are
>> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some
comments, but for
>> example I would like to read only the top-level
comments, and not the
>> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the
top-level
>> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is
there any way
>> to achieve this with NVDA?
>>
>> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination
to jump to the
>> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to
the next comment
>> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or
something, that
>> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to
deduce in my mind
>> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to
browse comments this way.
>>
>> Another way that might help me would be to figure out
the level of the
>> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down
through the
>> comments without reading them and without trying to
deduce its level
>> from the contents.
>>
>> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be
happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
|
That's good. I haven't used such
formats.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the level of comment
by its contents, but I found it was too hard. Some posts have several hundreds
of comments. Every top level comment might have a tree of a few dozen replies.
And depending on the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear at all whether
the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also my brain gets tired of trying to
deduce the level of the comment. Now since I get the offset of a comment
directly, it is going to be much easier for my brain, since I would need to
listen and only compare the number (offset being equal to the top-level comment
offset).
Tony
On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene wrote:
I ask a question in this message and make a few
comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related
command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there
is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon.
The review cursor by default if you are using
object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if
you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to
every comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is
better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to
continue. But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is
slower enough to matter.
Evidently, the speak position command has more
functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that
to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice.
Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next
occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might
be related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with
two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should
be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right.
Then you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a
read column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine
it was very useful to some people, Consider one use with
NVDA:
Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where
pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization
occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and
set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents.
Genea distance from the left of the screen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works
for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and
Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor,
perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed
speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After
pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen
width. So either way can be used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between
paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself
when I have some free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't tried this but I don't see how using
the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to
move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that
would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know
but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each
comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading
a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this
may explain that I'm wrong and why.
Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a
feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain
distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the
next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the
screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these
items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can
be developed.
By the way, you don't have to issue the command
twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more
times.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple
solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor
location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the
screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the
comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client
side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can
write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of
the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my
knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it
myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill
Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it
requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >>
On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many
websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example,
reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like
this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >>
example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not
the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the
top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting.
Is there any way >> to achieve this with
NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key
combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I
can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a
keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every
comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level
comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this
way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to
figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be
able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and
without trying to deduce its level >> from the
contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE,
so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these
browsers. >> >> Any advice would be
appreciated! >>
Tony >> >> >> >> > >
>
|
|
Could you please copy a link here where you have suche comments with many levels? Best Adriani Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Tony Malykh Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 20:25 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the level of comment by its contents, but I found it was too hard. Some posts have several hundreds of comments. Every top level comment might have a tree of a few dozen replies. And depending on the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear at all whether the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also my brain gets tired of trying to deduce the level of the comment. Now since I get the offset of a comment directly, it is going to be much easier for my brain, since I would need to listen and only compare the number (offset being equal to the top-level comment offset). Tony
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene wrote: I ask a question in this message and make a few comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon. The review cursor by default if you are using object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue. But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to matter. Evidently, the speak position command has more functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice. Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right. Then you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA: Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents. Genea distance from the left of the screen ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case. After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used. I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time. Tony On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote: I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed. By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way >> to achieve this with NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level >> from the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated! >> Tony >> >> >> >> > > >
|
|
Hi! I just wanted you to know, that I hear many messages in this thread in a language I do not understand. Are you typing in another language? NVDA is reading your messages in a different language to me LOL! David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: Adriani BotezSent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 4:33 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments Could you please copy a link here where you have suche comments with many levels? Best Adriani Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Tony Malykh Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 20:25 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the level of comment by its contents, but I found it was too hard. Some posts have several hundreds of comments. Every top level comment might have a tree of a few dozen replies. And depending on the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear at all whether the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also my brain gets tired of trying to deduce the level of the comment. Now since I get the offset of a comment directly, it is going to be much easier for my brain, since I would need to listen and only compare the number (offset being equal to the top-level comment offset). Tony On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene wrote: I ask a question in this message and make a few comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon. The review cursor by default if you are using object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue. But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to matter. Evidently, the speak position command has more functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice. Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right. Then you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA: Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents. Genea distance from the left of the screen ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case. After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used. I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time. Tony On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote: I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed. By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way >> to achieve this with NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level >> from the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated! >> Tony >> >> >> >> > > >
|
|
Turn off automatic language switching in
NVDA. the language is english. There is an HTML tag in the messages
that tells NVDA that a different language is being used. it's speaking
English as though it were that other language. Either you can turn off the
feature in NVDA or you can read mail as plain text.
The setting is in the voice settings dialog in
preferences. The shortcut command is control NVDA key v.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
Hi!
I just wanted you to know, that I hear many messages in this
thread in a language I do not understand.
Are you typing in another language? NVDA is reading your
messages in a different language to me LOL!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows
10
Could you please copy a link here where you have suche
comments with many levels?
Best
Adriani
Von:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Tony
Malykh Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 20:25 An:
nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the
level of comment by its contents, but I found it was too hard. Some posts have
several hundreds of comments. Every top level comment might have a tree of a few
dozen replies. And depending on the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear
at all whether the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also my brain gets
tired of trying to deduce the level of the comment. Now since I get the offset
of a comment directly, it is going to be much easier for my brain, since I would
need to listen and only compare the number (offset being equal to the top-level
comment offset).
Tony
On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene
wrote:
I ask a question in this message and make a few comments but the
second half of the message discusses what might be a related command, at least
in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there is enough
interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon.
The review cursor by default if you are using object navigation
follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if you only want to
read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and
measure the distance? My question is how that is better than reading a
few words of each comment to see if you want to continue. But maybe you
have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to matter.
Evidently, the speak position command has more functions than in the
old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that to hear the numbers,
you have to issue the command twice.
Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence of text
starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be related to
another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with two or three
columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be able to
define a start point and an end point farther to the right. Then you
could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read
column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was
very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA:
Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages didn't
decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization occur, if you
could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the
columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents.
Genea distance from the left of the screen ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works,
but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google
Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the
review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my
case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once,
and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume)
pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage
of the screen width. So either way can be used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump
between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin
myself when I have some free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM,
Gene wrote:
I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location
feature would help much. You would still have to move to the beginning
of each comment and check the distance. If that would save you time in
not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to
the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be
cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to
see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong
and why.
Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin
you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left
side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at
the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You could issue
a next and a back command to move to these items. So the idea may lead
to a good solution if such a feature can be developed.
By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice. It does
the same thing if issued once or more times.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution:
press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and
it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The
greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I
think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it
myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill
Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it
requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >>
On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many
websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example,
reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like
this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >>
example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not
the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the
top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting.
Is there any way >> to achieve this with
NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key
combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I
can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a
keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every
comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level
comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this
way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to
figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be
able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and
without trying to deduce its level >> from the
contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE,
so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these
browsers. >> >> Any advice would be
appreciated! >>
Tony >> >> >> >> > >
>
|
|
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Could you please copy a link here where you
have suche comments with many levels?
Best
Adriani
Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the
level of comment by its contents, but I found it was too hard.
Some posts have several hundreds of comments. Every top level
comment might have a tree of a few dozen replies. And
depending on the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear
at all whether the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also
my brain gets tired of trying to deduce the level of the
comment. Now since I get the offset of a comment directly, it
is going to be much easier for my brain, since I would need to
listen and only compare the number (offset being equal to the
top-level comment offset).
Tony
On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene wrote:
I
ask a question in this message and make a few comments
but the second half of the message discusses what might
be a related command, at least in terms of how you would
program it. Perhaps if there is enough interest on the
list, the developers will work on it soon.
The
review cursor by default if you are using object
navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm
saying is if you only want to read the top level
comments, then don't you have to move to every comment
and measure the distance? My question is how that is
better than reading a few words of each comment to see
if you want to continue. But maybe you have to read
enough of each comment that it is slower enough to
matter.
Evidently,
the speak position command has more functions than in
the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that
to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command
twice.
Also,
the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence
of text starting a certain point from the left of the
screen might be related to another feature NVDA should
have. If you have a page with two or three columns or
more and you want to only read one column, you should
be able to define a start point and an end point
farther to the right. Then you could read and only
have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read
column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I
would imagine it was very useful to some people,
Consider one use with NVDA:
Suppose
you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages
didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have
decolumnization occur, if you could just have the page
recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns
yourself, you might be able to read such documents.
Genea
distance from the left of the screen
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re:
[nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works,
but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker
News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any
extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review
cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once,
and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object
in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the
horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So
either way can be used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump
between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to
write such a plugin myself when I have some free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
I
haven't tried this but I don't see how using the
cursor location feature would help much. You would
still have to move to the beginning of each comment
and check the distance. If that would save you time
in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know
but having to move to the next comment and check the
distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome
and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each
comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try
this may explain that I'm wrong and why.
Perhaps
what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a
plugin you can set to look for text that starts a
certain distance from the left side of the screen and
then be able to jump to the next text that starts at
the same number of pixels from the left of the
screen. You could issue a next and a back command to
move to these items. So the idea may lead to a good
solution if such a feature can be developed.
By
the way, you don't have to issue the command twice.
It does the same thing if issued once or more times.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re:
[nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments
I've been
playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution:
press
Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor
location) and it will
tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen.
The greater the
distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side
to make the
comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can
write a browser
plugin that would modify a page to include the level of
the comment
explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my
knowledge of
javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote:
> I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it
requires changes on the site’s end.
>
> Bill
>
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Many websites have tree-like structure of
comments. For
>> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot
more websites are
>> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some
comments, but for
>> example I would like to read only the top-level
comments, and not the
>> deeper levels, because that would be the replies
to the top-level
>> comments, and they are typically not as
interesting. Is there any way
>> to achieve this with NVDA?
>>
>> So, for example, I would like to have a key
combination to jump to the
>> next same level comment. Right now I can only
jump to the next comment
>> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or
something, that
>> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have
to deduce in my mind
>> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to
browse comments this way.
>>
>> Another way that might help me would be to figure
out the level of the
>> current comment. At least I'd be able to move
down through the
>> comments without reading them and without trying
to deduce its level
>> from the contents.
>>
>> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd
be happy to find a solution that works in any of these
browsers.
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Thanks a lot, Gene! I really appreciate it. I did what you said, and that definitely fixed it! David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: GeneSent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 9:34 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments Turn off automatic language switching in NVDA. the language is english. There is an HTML tag in the messages that tells NVDA that a different language is being used. it's speaking English as though it were that other language. Either you can turn off the feature in NVDA or you can read mail as plain text. The setting is in the voice settings dialog in preferences. The shortcut command is control NVDA key v. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments Hi! I just wanted you to know, that I hear many messages in this thread in a language I do not understand. Are you typing in another language? NVDA is reading your messages in a different language to me LOL! David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10 Could you please copy a link here where you have suche comments with many levels? Best Adriani Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Tony Malykh Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 20:25 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the level of comment by its contents, but I found it was too hard. Some posts have several hundreds of comments. Every top level comment might have a tree of a few dozen replies. And depending on the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear at all whether the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also my brain gets tired of trying to deduce the level of the comment. Now since I get the offset of a comment directly, it is going to be much easier for my brain, since I would need to listen and only compare the number (offset being equal to the top-level comment offset). Tony On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene wrote: I ask a question in this message and make a few comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon. The review cursor by default if you are using object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue. But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to matter. Evidently, the speak position command has more functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice. Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right. Then you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA: Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents. Genea distance from the left of the screen ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case. After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used. I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time. Tony On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote: I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed. By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way >> to achieve this with NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level >> from the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated! >> Tony >> >> >> >> > > >
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toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
Gene,
Why not creating an issue on github about that? I think your idea is very
worth to think about.
Best
Adriani
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
I ask a question in this message and make a few
comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related
command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there
is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon.
The review cursor by default if you are using
object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if
you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to
every comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is
better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to
continue. But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is
slower enough to matter.
Evidently, the speak position command has more
functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that
to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice.
Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next
occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might
be related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with
two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should
be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right.
Then you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a
read column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine
it was very useful to some people, Consider one use with
NVDA:
Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where
pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization
occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and
set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents.
Genea distance from the left of the screen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works
for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and
Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor,
perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case.
After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed
speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After
pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen
width. So either way can be used.
I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between
paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself
when I have some free time.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't tried this but I don't see how using
the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to
move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that
would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know
but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each
comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading
a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this
may explain that I'm wrong and why.
Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a
feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain
distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the
next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the
screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these
items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can
be developed.
By the way, you don't have to issue the command
twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more
times.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of
comments
I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple
solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor
location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the
screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the
comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client
side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can
write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of
the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my
knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it
myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill
Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it
requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >>
On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...>
wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many
websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example,
reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like
this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >>
example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not
the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the
top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting.
Is there any way >> to achieve this with
NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key
combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I
can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a
keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every
comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level
comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this
way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to
figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be
able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and
without trying to deduce its level >> from the
contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE,
so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these
browsers. >> >> Any advice would be
appreciated! >>
Tony >> >> >> >> > >
>
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Hello Tony, unfortunately I could not find a work around for your problem. The comments are not separated by colors, but by aligments I guess. So, it certainly depends on the screen resolution and screen size as well. In my view, it is not possible to solve this problem by NVDA. And from an accessible perspective, you would need a multi line braille display or something like this to easily find the comment you want to read. Apart from that, I doubt that it would improve your user experience if redit collapses all levels automatically. You would have to expand them again and again to find relevant comments. Best Adriani Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Tony Malykh Gesendet: Freitag, 8. Dezember 2017 03:41 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments Here are some examples: 200+ comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14477851 90+ comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/7gtm54/the_best_books_of_2017_megalist/ 8000+ comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/34m5n6/reddit_what_are_some_must_read_books/ Although these days reddit is smart enough to collapse deep branches of replies, it still often shows second-level comments. Tony
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/7/2017 1:33 PM, Adriani Botez wrote: Could you please copy a link here where you have suche comments with many levels? Best Adriani Gene, I'm sorry I missed your question. I tried deducing the level of comment by its contents, but I found it was too hard. Some posts have several hundreds of comments. Every top level comment might have a tree of a few dozen replies. And depending on the topic of the post, sometimes it is not clear at all whether the comment is a top level one or a reply. Also my brain gets tired of trying to deduce the level of the comment. Now since I get the offset of a comment directly, it is going to be much easier for my brain, since I would need to listen and only compare the number (offset being equal to the top-level comment offset). Tony On 12/6/2017 4:39 PM, Gene wrote: I ask a question in this message and make a few comments but the second half of the message discusses what might be a related command, at least in terms of how you would program it. Perhaps if there is enough interest on the list, the developers will work on it soon. The review cursor by default if you are using object navigation follows the system cursor. But what I'm saying is if you only want to read the top level comments, then don't you have to move to every comment and measure the distance? My question is how that is better than reading a few words of each comment to see if you want to continue. But maybe you have to read enough of each comment that it is slower enough to matter. Evidently, the speak position command has more functions than in the old version of NVDA I use. So you are correct that to hear the numbers, you have to issue the command twice. Also, the idea of being able to jump to the next occurrence of text starting a certain point from the left of the screen might be related to another feature NVDA should have. If you have a page with two or three columns or more and you want to only read one column, you should be able to define a start point and an end point farther to the right. Then you could read and only have that defineed column read. ASAP had a read column feature in JAWS. I seldo had to use it but I would imagine it was very useful to some people, Consider one use with NVDA: Suppose you got a poorly formatted PDF document where pages didn't decolumnize properly. Rather than have decolumnization occur, if you could just have the page recognized with no decolumnization and set the columns yourself, you might be able to read such documents. Genea distance from the left of the screen ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I am an NVDA newbie, so I don't know how or why this works, but it works for me. I tried it on both Reddit and Hacker News in Google Chrome and Firefox. I don't have to press any extra buttons to route the review cursor, perhaps the review cursor just follows the system cursor in my case. After your email I tried pressing Insert+Delete only once, and it indeed speaks the horizontal offset of current object in (I assume) pixels. After pressing it twice it speaks the horizontal offset in percentage of the screen width. So either way can be used. I like your idea about NVDA addon that would let you jump between paragraphs with the same offset. I might try to write such a plugin myself when I have some free time. Tony On 12/6/2017 3:33 PM, Gene wrote: I haven't tried this but I don't see how using the cursor location feature would help much. You would still have to move to the beginning of each comment and check the distance. If that would save you time in not having to read any of the comment, I don't know but having to move to the next comment and check the distance of each comment would seem to be cumbersome and perhaps not much easier than reading a bit of each comment to see if it’s a reply. but those who try this may explain that I'm wrong and why. Perhaps what we need, if this can be done, is a feature or a plugin you can set to look for text that starts a certain distance from the left side of the screen and then be able to jump to the next text that starts at the same number of pixels from the left of the screen. You could issue a next and a back command to move to these items. So the idea may lead to a good solution if such a feature can be developed. By the way, you don't have to issue the command twice. It does the same thing if issued once or more times. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Browsing hierarchical tree of comments I've been playing with NVDA and just discovered a simple solution: press Insert + Numpad Delete twice (Report review cursor location) and it will tell you the distance from the left edge of the screen. The greater the distance - the deeper the level of the comment.
I think in theory something can be done on the client side to make the comments more readable for screenreader users.. You can write a browser plugin that would modify a page to include the level of the comment explicitly for example. But this is only in theory: my knowledge of javascript/HTML/CSS is too poor to write it myself.
Tony
On 12/6/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Dengler wrote: > I’m interested in this as well, but suspect it requires changes on the site’s end. > > Bill > >> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Many websites have tree-like structure of comments. For >> example, reddit, hacker news, and probably a lot more websites are >> like this. Sometimes I would like to read some comments, but for >> example I would like to read only the top-level comments, and not the >> deeper levels, because that would be the replies to the top-level >> comments, and they are typically not as interesting. Is there any way >> to achieve this with NVDA? >> >> So, for example, I would like to have a key combination to jump to the >> next same level comment. Right now I can only jump to the next comment >> of any level by searching a keyword ("up vote" or something, that >> appears next to every comment), and then I'd have to deduce in my mind >> what level comment is this. It is very tedious to browse comments this way. >> >> Another way that might help me would be to figure out the level of the >> current comment. At least I'd be able to move down through the >> comments without reading them and without trying to deduce its level >> from the contents. >> >> I can use Firefox, Google Chrome and IE, so I'd be happy to find a solution that works in any of these browsers. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated! >> Tony >> >> >> >> > > >
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