Design Help, Please
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tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Hello,
I’m in the United States, Central time, so it just turned 8 a.m. I’ll be available until 3 p.m.
My problem is this, I design help files that accompany software. I want to make sure what I design is readable to screen readers.
Having no sensory input problems, I designed the help system for such as myself. Many pages of the help system have a copy of the home screen at the top. It has hot hyperlinks over the image. Thus the viewer can see a typical home screen and select the text or button with which they want help. This enables them to quickly jump to that help page.
Now I’m going back and making these things friendly to screen readers. I know they read alt text, which means I need to break apart the image and reassemble it so each text area (which has a hyperlink on top) has its own alt text.
Not knowing how screen readers work, is that the best method? I need something that will work with the most common screen readers. If they read hyperlink text, does breaking the image apart just create more reading? Am I cluttering the audible page with this approach? Or, should I have my hyperlinks have their own tooltips? The maker of the software I use, Help and Manual, has made the offer:
Begin Quote: It's important to remember that every graphic can only have one tooltip. You can add additional tooltips with hotspot links, but they currently only have the tip in a title= attribute, not in an alt= attribute (let us know if screen readers need that as well and we'll add it). However, if you add hotspot tooltips the hotspots are not really part of the image. They are in a special "image map" that positions their clickable areas over the image. If you are going to use hotspots to implement multiple tooltips in a single graphic it would be important to test it out with current screen readers first to see how they handle them -- they would need to read the image maps in the "correct" order and respond accordingly.
--Tim Green, Monday, November 27, 2017, 5:29 p.m. End Quote
So, H&M is willing to add alt=attribute support, if it will help the screen readers process an image map better than a tiled image.
I thought I’d ask experts, since I don’t know. What do you think?
Tonea Morrow
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hello.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
if you want to make available your files for blind users, the best format for us is html only. i myself, save any page that i love, in html only format for three reasons. first, avoiding images and crowdering of my system because of the image that i cant see, second, for having only one file, but html complete is a folder not one single file! but users of windows ten can use builtin ocr images included in windows ten, and other can use addon for recognizing images from texts. if you want to preserve images for blinds, i think its best to provide discription for them. hope that can help you, God bless you!
On 12/7/17, tonea.ctr.morrow@... <tonea.ctr.morrow@...> wrote:
Hello, --
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation. holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107. in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is: indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation. best website for studying islamic book in different languages www.al-islam.org
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Brian Moore
Hi. Without an example, it is a little difficult to speculate. However, if the link <title> attribute is labeled correctly, this would be more useful than adding "alt" tags.
Happy to play with a prototype and look at code and make suggestions. work phone is 416-325-2988 although that is calling Canada. alternatively, write privately if you like. either this address or
Contact me on skype: brian.moore follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 On 12/07/2017 9:24 AM,
tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:
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Gene
Help files need not be in HTML. This is part
of a program and whatever the format is, if the files can be made to read well
with a screen-reader, there is no need to change the format.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
if you want to make available your files for blind users, the best format for us is html only. i myself, save any page that i love, in html only format for three reasons. first, avoiding images and crowdering of my system because of the image that i cant see, second, for having only one file, but html complete is a folder not one single file! but users of windows ten can use builtin ocr images included in windows ten, and other can use addon for recognizing images from texts. if you want to preserve images for blinds, i think its best to provide discription for them. hope that can help you, God bless you! On 12/7/17, tonea.ctr.morrow@... <tonea.ctr.morrow@...> wrote: > Hello, > > I'm in the United States, Central time, so it just turned 8 a.m. I'll be > available until 3 p.m. > > My problem is this, I design help files that accompany software. I want to > make sure what I design is readable to screen readers. > > Having no sensory input problems, I designed the help system for such as > myself. Many pages of the help system have a copy of the home screen at the > top. It has hot hyperlinks over the image. Thus the viewer can see a typical > home screen and select the text or button with which they want help. This > enables them to quickly jump to that help page. > > Now I'm going back and making these things friendly to screen readers. I > know they read alt text, which means I need to break apart the image and > reassemble it so each text area (which has a hyperlink on top) has its own > alt text. > > Not knowing how screen readers work, is that the best method? I need > something that will work with the most common screen readers. If they read > hyperlink text, does breaking the image apart just create more reading? Am I > cluttering the audible page with this approach? Or, should I have my > hyperlinks have their own tooltips? The maker of the software I use, Help > and Manual, has made the offer: > > Begin Quote: It's important to remember that every graphic can only have one > tooltip. You can add additional tooltips with hotspot links, but they > currently only have the tip in a title= attribute, not in an alt= attribute > (let us know if screen readers need that as well and we'll add it). However, > if you add hotspot tooltips the hotspots are not really part of the image. > They are in a special "image map" that positions their clickable areas over > the image. If you are going to use hotspots to implement multiple tooltips > in a single graphic it would be important to test it out with current screen > readers first to see how they handle them -- they would need to read the > image maps in the "correct" order and respond accordingly. > > --Tim Green, Monday, November 27, 2017, 5:29 p.m. End Quote > > So, H&M is willing to add alt=attribute support, if it will help the screen > readers process an image map better than a tiled image. > > I thought I'd ask experts, since I don't know. What do you think? > > Tonea Morrow > > Tonea Morrow > > Technical Writer > MCSG/SAIC | Desk: 405-954-7152 > MMAC: Base Maintenance Building 15 > Enterprise Services Center (ESC) > 6500 S. MacArthur Blvd, OKC, OK 73169 > tonea.ctr.morrow@... | www.esc.gov > > Availability (appointments outside these) > Mo > > 7a - 5 p > > If I take a lunch, I'll be here later. If I take a kid to a doctor, I'll be > here later on Friday. > > Tu > > 7:30 a - 3:30p > > We > > 7:30 a - 3p > > Th > > 7:30 a - 3:30p > > Fr > > 7:30 a - 2p > > > > > -- we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation. holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107. in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is: indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation. best website for studying islamic book in different languages www.al-islam.org
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Hi Tonea, Can you provide me (offlist) with a sample of a help documentation that is written with that program? That way I can figure out what’s up and provide suggestions (when sending samples, I prefer HTML or docx). If links to sections are images and are coded with HTML, then alt text (alternative text) should work across browsers. A good example that illustrate this principle is mobile Twitter page (m.twitter.com) where different Twitter actions are graphics yet NVDA will announce labels. Another example, although a bit more technical, is Python documentation (docs.python.org). P.S. There is another reason why I request sending samples to me offlist, and that’s for career reasons. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 6:25 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] Design Help, Please
Hello,
I’m in the United States, Central time, so it just turned 8 a.m. I’ll be available until 3 p.m.
My problem is this, I design help files that accompany software. I want to make sure what I design is readable to screen readers.
Having no sensory input problems, I designed the help system for such as myself. Many pages of the help system have a copy of the home screen at the top. It has hot hyperlinks over the image. Thus the viewer can see a typical home screen and select the text or button with which they want help. This enables them to quickly jump to that help page.
Now I’m going back and making these things friendly to screen readers. I know they read alt text, which means I need to break apart the image and reassemble it so each text area (which has a hyperlink on top) has its own alt text.
Not knowing how screen readers work, is that the best method? I need something that will work with the most common screen readers. If they read hyperlink text, does breaking the image apart just create more reading? Am I cluttering the audible page with this approach? Or, should I have my hyperlinks have their own tooltips? The maker of the software I use, Help and Manual, has made the offer:
Begin Quote: It's important to remember that every graphic can only have one tooltip. You can add additional tooltips with hotspot links, but they currently only have the tip in a title= attribute, not in an alt= attribute (let us know if screen readers need that as well and we'll add it). However, if you add hotspot tooltips the hotspots are not really part of the image. They are in a special "image map" that positions their clickable areas over the image. If you are going to use hotspots to implement multiple tooltips in a single graphic it would be important to test it out with current screen readers first to see how they handle them -- they would need to read the image maps in the "correct" order and respond accordingly.
--Tim Green, Monday, November 27, 2017, 5:29 p.m. End Quote
So, H&M is willing to add alt=attribute support, if it will help the screen readers process an image map better than a tiled image.
I thought I’d ask experts, since I don’t know. What do you think?
Tonea Morrow
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tonea.ctr.morrow@...
I’ve sent you and Gene a private email with sample files. Check your junk folder if you didn’t get it. –Thanks!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:47 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Design Help, Please
Hi Tonea, Can you provide me (offlist) with a sample of a help documentation that is written with that program? That way I can figure out what’s up and provide suggestions (when sending samples, I prefer HTML or docx). If links to sections are images and are coded with HTML, then alt text (alternative text) should work across browsers. A good example that illustrate this principle is mobile Twitter page (m.twitter.com) where different Twitter actions are graphics yet NVDA will announce labels. Another example, although a bit more technical, is Python documentation (docs.python.org). P.S. There is another reason why I request sending samples to me offlist, and that’s for career reasons. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Hello,
I’m in the United States, Central time, so it just turned 8 a.m. I’ll be available until 3 p.m.
My problem is this, I design help files that accompany software. I want to make sure what I design is readable to screen readers.
Having no sensory input problems, I designed the help system for such as myself. Many pages of the help system have a copy of the home screen at the top. It has hot hyperlinks over the image. Thus the viewer can see a typical home screen and select the text or button with which they want help. This enables them to quickly jump to that help page.
Now I’m going back and making these things friendly to screen readers. I know they read alt text, which means I need to break apart the image and reassemble it so each text area (which has a hyperlink on top) has its own alt text.
Not knowing how screen readers work, is that the best method? I need something that will work with the most common screen readers. If they read hyperlink text, does breaking the image apart just create more reading? Am I cluttering the audible page with this approach? Or, should I have my hyperlinks have their own tooltips? The maker of the software I use, Help and Manual, has made the offer:
Begin Quote: It's important to remember that every graphic can only have one tooltip. You can add additional tooltips with hotspot links, but they currently only have the tip in a title= attribute, not in an alt= attribute (let us know if screen readers need that as well and we'll add it). However, if you add hotspot tooltips the hotspots are not really part of the image. They are in a special "image map" that positions their clickable areas over the image. If you are going to use hotspots to implement multiple tooltips in a single graphic it would be important to test it out with current screen readers first to see how they handle them -- they would need to read the image maps in the "correct" order and respond accordingly.
--Tim Green, Monday, November 27, 2017, 5:29 p.m. End Quote
So, H&M is willing to add alt=attribute support, if it will help the screen readers process an image map better than a tiled image.
I thought I’d ask experts, since I don’t know. What do you think?
Tonea Morrow
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Rayn Darren <rayndarren@...>
Hi, I’d be willing to help out too if you would like. Is it possible to see it in action along with the code or is this a private network?
Happy to help, Rayn
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 10:07 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Design Help, Please
I’ve sent you and Gene a private email with sample files. Check your junk folder if you didn’t get it. –Thanks!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Hi Tonea, Can you provide me (offlist) with a sample of a help documentation that is written with that program? That way I can figure out what’s up and provide suggestions (when sending samples, I prefer HTML or docx). If links to sections are images and are coded with HTML, then alt text (alternative text) should work across browsers. A good example that illustrate this principle is mobile Twitter page (m.twitter.com) where different Twitter actions are graphics yet NVDA will announce labels. Another example, although a bit more technical, is Python documentation (docs.python.org). P.S. There is another reason why I request sending samples to me offlist, and that’s for career reasons. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Hello,
I’m in the United States, Central time, so it just turned 8 a.m. I’ll be available until 3 p.m.
My problem is this, I design help files that accompany software. I want to make sure what I design is readable to screen readers.
Having no sensory input problems, I designed the help system for such as myself. Many pages of the help system have a copy of the home screen at the top. It has hot hyperlinks over the image. Thus the viewer can see a typical home screen and select the text or button with which they want help. This enables them to quickly jump to that help page.
Now I’m going back and making these things friendly to screen readers. I know they read alt text, which means I need to break apart the image and reassemble it so each text area (which has a hyperlink on top) has its own alt text.
Not knowing how screen readers work, is that the best method? I need something that will work with the most common screen readers. If they read hyperlink text, does breaking the image apart just create more reading? Am I cluttering the audible page with this approach? Or, should I have my hyperlinks have their own tooltips? The maker of the software I use, Help and Manual, has made the offer:
Begin Quote: It's important to remember that every graphic can only have one tooltip. You can add additional tooltips with hotspot links, but they currently only have the tip in a title= attribute, not in an alt= attribute (let us know if screen readers need that as well and we'll add it). However, if you add hotspot tooltips the hotspots are not really part of the image. They are in a special "image map" that positions their clickable areas over the image. If you are going to use hotspots to implement multiple tooltips in a single graphic it would be important to test it out with current screen readers first to see how they handle them -- they would need to read the image maps in the "correct" order and respond accordingly.
--Tim Green, Monday, November 27, 2017, 5:29 p.m. End Quote
So, H&M is willing to add alt=attribute support, if it will help the screen readers process an image map better than a tiled image.
I thought I’d ask experts, since I don’t know. What do you think?
Tonea Morrow
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tonea.ctr.morrow@...
You have been send a copy!
Tonea Morrow
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Rayn Darren
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 2:04 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Design Help, Please
Hi, I’d be willing to help out too if you would like. Is it possible to see it in action along with the code or is this a private network?
Happy to help, Rayn
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
I’ve sent you and Gene a private email with sample files. Check your junk folder if you didn’t get it. –Thanks!
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Hi Tonea, Can you provide me (offlist) with a sample of a help documentation that is written with that program? That way I can figure out what’s up and provide suggestions (when sending samples, I prefer HTML or docx). If links to sections are images and are coded with HTML, then alt text (alternative text) should work across browsers. A good example that illustrate this principle is mobile Twitter page (m.twitter.com) where different Twitter actions are graphics yet NVDA will announce labels. Another example, although a bit more technical, is Python documentation (docs.python.org). P.S. There is another reason why I request sending samples to me offlist, and that’s for career reasons. Cheers, Joseph
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Hello,
I’m in the United States, Central time, so it just turned 8 a.m. I’ll be available until 3 p.m.
My problem is this, I design help files that accompany software. I want to make sure what I design is readable to screen readers.
Having no sensory input problems, I designed the help system for such as myself. Many pages of the help system have a copy of the home screen at the top. It has hot hyperlinks over the image. Thus the viewer can see a typical home screen and select the text or button with which they want help. This enables them to quickly jump to that help page.
Now I’m going back and making these things friendly to screen readers. I know they read alt text, which means I need to break apart the image and reassemble it so each text area (which has a hyperlink on top) has its own alt text.
Not knowing how screen readers work, is that the best method? I need something that will work with the most common screen readers. If they read hyperlink text, does breaking the image apart just create more reading? Am I cluttering the audible page with this approach? Or, should I have my hyperlinks have their own tooltips? The maker of the software I use, Help and Manual, has made the offer:
Begin Quote: It's important to remember that every graphic can only have one tooltip. You can add additional tooltips with hotspot links, but they currently only have the tip in a title= attribute, not in an alt= attribute (let us know if screen readers need that as well and we'll add it). However, if you add hotspot tooltips the hotspots are not really part of the image. They are in a special "image map" that positions their clickable areas over the image. If you are going to use hotspots to implement multiple tooltips in a single graphic it would be important to test it out with current screen readers first to see how they handle them -- they would need to read the image maps in the "correct" order and respond accordingly.
--Tim Green, Monday, November 27, 2017, 5:29 p.m. End Quote
So, H&M is willing to add alt=attribute support, if it will help the screen readers process an image map better than a tiled image.
I thought I’d ask experts, since I don’t know. What do you think?
Tonea Morrow
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Adriani Botez
Could you please send an example of a help file? You could send it privately as well.
Best Adriani
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Hello,
I’m in the United States, Central time, so it just turned 8 a.m. I’ll be available until 3 p.m.
My problem is this, I design help files that accompany software. I want to make sure what I design is readable to screen readers.
Having no sensory input problems, I designed the help system for such as myself. Many pages of the help system have a copy of the home screen at the top. It has hot hyperlinks over the image. Thus the viewer can see a typical home screen and select the text or button with which they want help. This enables them to quickly jump to that help page.
Now I’m going back and making these things friendly to screen readers. I know they read alt text, which means I need to break apart the image and reassemble it so each text area (which has a hyperlink on top) has its own alt text.
Not knowing how screen readers work, is that the best method? I need something that will work with the most common screen readers. If they read hyperlink text, does breaking the image apart just create more reading? Am I cluttering the audible page with this approach? Or, should I have my hyperlinks have their own tooltips? The maker of the software I use, Help and Manual, has made the offer:
Begin Quote: It's important to remember that every graphic can only have one tooltip. You can add additional tooltips with hotspot links, but they currently only have the tip in a title= attribute, not in an alt= attribute (let us know if screen readers need that as well and we'll add it). However, if you add hotspot tooltips the hotspots are not really part of the image. They are in a special "image map" that positions their clickable areas over the image. If you are going to use hotspots to implement multiple tooltips in a single graphic it would be important to test it out with current screen readers first to see how they handle them -- they would need to read the image maps in the "correct" order and respond accordingly.
--Tim Green, Monday, November 27, 2017, 5:29 p.m. End Quote
So, H&M is willing to add alt=attribute support, if it will help the screen readers process an image map better than a tiled image.
I thought I’d ask experts, since I don’t know. What do you think?
Tonea Morrow
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tonea.ctr.morrow@...
I sent it to the list and to you privately. Email warned me that no one would likely get it because the attachments are suspicious. Just letting you know to check your junk or virus folder.
Tonea
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 3:09 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Design Help, Please
Could you please send an example of a help file? You could send it privately as well.
Best Adriani
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Gene
Most lists don't allow attachments for security
reasons and this list follows that practice. that's why I suggested using
a file sharing service like Drop Box. You can send attachments privately
to everyone who inquires or you can send a link for people to download
it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Design Help, Please I sent it to the list and to you privately. Email warned me that no one would likely get it because the attachments are suspicious. Justletting you know to check your junk or virus folder.
Tonea
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Could you please send an example of a help file? You could send it privately as well.
Best Adriani
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tonea.ctr.morrow@...
I sent it to the list and to you privately. Email warned me that no one would likely get it because the attachments are suspicious. Just letting you know to check your junk or virus folder.
Tonea
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 3:09 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Design Help, Please
Could you please send an example of a help file? You could send it privately as well.
Best Adriani
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