1. nvda@nvda.groups.io
Topics

Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep, that's right. IN my case i hear "progress" then blank, and there is not a thing there. I have to in my case either alt tab away and back to, or or hit windows m or windows d, and then alt tab back to the explorer window.
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On 24 May 2020, at 0:18, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:

On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.

And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?

I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Brian Vogel
 

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM, Gene wrote:
I'm not sure the sighted people don't have bugs standard is valid.
It's not, nor is it accurate.   By definition one cannot have bugs with software one is not using, but everyone experiences bugs at one point or another.

And as a former developer I can tell you that bug fixes get prioritized based on whether they're show-stoppers (first priority), major stumbling blocks (second priority), minor stumbling blocks (third priority), or trivial annoyances (whenever, if ever).

There is a finite amount of time, money, and talent and that will be focused where it's considered by the software maker to be most needed.  If I can work around something in seconds that won't stop me from reporting it as a bug, but what it will do is make me realize that the probability of said bug being fixed any time soon is very small indeed.

All of the above leaves aside, for simplicity's sake, the fact that software often interacts with each other depending on exactly what's in use.  Very often what appears to be the problem, and is actually where you as an end user are encountering the problem, is not the genesis of said problem.  In the case of NVDA, it even gives you some mechanisms to figure this out to a certain degree yourself, like being able to start NVDA with all add-ons disabled.  If things suddenly start behaving normally, it isn't NVDA itself that's causing the problem, but one of the add-ons you're using.  Then, if you want to be thorough about chasing down which, you turn add-ons back on, but disable half of them.  If the problem is still there, you know it's in that half, if not, it's one in the disabled half.  You keep enabling/disabling by halves within the problem sphere until you find the culprit.  Then you report the culprit and issue to its developer(s).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Gene
 

I don't know how much time would be involved fixing it.  I would think there are far more serious behaviors, I don't know if they are bugs, caused by how this or that program may interact with NVDA.  For example, run Virtual Recorder Portable as modified by the late Carlos.  I suspect th4e unmodified program would do the same thing, but I know this one does.  I'll supply a download link if people want to test this.  When you run the program, every item in the dialog, which is the main interface, is read and you can't stop it.  if you leave the program and return to the window, every item is read again.  then, you can finally tab from item to item and hear them read as you land on them.  But it still doesn't work properly.  Let's say you tab three times quickly.  Each item will be read.  Speech isn't stopped.  its like a repetition of the first behavior but this time, limited to the items you tab through. 
 
I see this behavior in other places as well.  It may not be very common but I suspect it is common enough that since I've raised it, others will give examples. 
 
My question is, how much work would be involved in fixing the fantom window behavior and would that detract in any meaningful way from development or fixing more serious bugs or behaviors?
 
I'm not sure the sighted people don't have bugs standard is valid.  For one thing, Windows isn't designed to be used by screen-readers and it is a complex environment.  Many programs are complex environments and there is constant pressure to alter NVDA as Windows and programs change.  Getting rid of very small odd bugs like this may not be a good or remotely important activity.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Ron,
if you type those lines exactly as shown, chances of destroying
anything are minimal. In case you do somehow screw up in Python
Console, usually you can remedy the situation by simply restarting
NVDA. As a general rule, however, you had better know what you're
doing when you work in Python Console as you're manipulating NVDA at
its deepest levels.
I agree that it's a minor distraction. What I don't agree with in
principle, however, is that as screen reader users we should just
accept anomalies. Sighted users, for the most part, wouldn't. Software
is never perfect, and only a fool could believe it can ever be
bug-free, but still bugs are to be fixed before they become permanent
fixtures to be accepted as part of the lay of the land. This one is
definitely on the verge as far as I'm concerned.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 16:17 Uhr schrieb Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>:
>
> Hi Felix,
>
> Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in
> the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if
> everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I
> was doing.
> As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could
> really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am
> wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.
>
>
>
>
> On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
> > Hi!
> > That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
> > as I reported in 2018:
> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389
> > The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
> > window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
> > to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
> > always possible.
> > To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
> > following statements in the Python console:
> > import watchdog
> > watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT
> > Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
> > been exorcised.
> > Best,
> > Felix
> >
> > Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
> > <rob_hudson3182@...>:
> >> I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
> >> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> >> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
> >>
> >>> Hi Luke,
> >>>
> >>> I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
> >>> any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
> >>> check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
> >>> hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
> >>> keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
> >>> '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
> >>>>> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
> >>>>> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
> >>>> And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
> >>>> actually answer my question. Which was, again:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> How exactly do you know the window is still there?
> >>>> I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
> >>>> that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?
> >>>>
> >>>> Luke
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> >>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> >>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>
>
>
Felix G.
 

Hi Ron,
if you type those lines exactly as shown, chances of destroying
anything are minimal. In case you do somehow screw up in Python
Console, usually you can remedy the situation by simply restarting
NVDA. As a general rule, however, you had better know what you're
doing when you work in Python Console as you're manipulating NVDA at
its deepest levels.
I agree that it's a minor distraction. What I don't agree with in
principle, however, is that as screen reader users we should just
accept anomalies. Sighted users, for the most part, wouldn't. Software
is never perfect, and only a fool could believe it can ever be
bug-free, but still bugs are to be fixed before they become permanent
fixtures to be accepted as part of the lay of the land. This one is
definitely on the verge as far as I'm concerned.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 16:17 Uhr schrieb Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>:


Hi Felix,

Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in
the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if
everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I
was doing.
As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could
really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am
wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.




On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi!
That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
as I reported in 2018:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389
The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
always possible.
To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
following statements in the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT
Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
been exorcised.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
<rob_hudson3182@opopanax.net>:
I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Felix,

Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I was doing.
As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.

On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi!
That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
as I reported in 2018:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389
The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
always possible.
To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
following statements in the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT
Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
been exorcised.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
<rob_hudson3182@opopanax.net>:
I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Gene
 

People who are receiving training should, perhaps be told that such things can occur and not to worry about them.  I know of one case where someone saw the information after removing a device and was worried that there was a problem that needed correcting.  He spent time trying to correct it which caused needless frustration and wasted time.
 
Screen-readers, functioning in the complex environments in which they do are going to do anomalous things now and then.  For some reason, NVDA says s p when Firefox is opening. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi!
I would be pragmatic about it. If it is visually gone then announcing
it is, by definition, incorrect screen reader behavior regardless of
conditions. Invisible windows are not a valid metaphor in the sighted
user's world model, so why should we bother?
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:
>
> Its an interesting question as to just what is there.  At times, something is there but I don't think it is a window.  When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title bar and see information about that function.  This is in Windows 7 with NVDA.  I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later Windows versions.
>
> Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what, and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to be able to move back to it.  It might be technically interesting to know what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with Windows under certain conditions.
>
> Gene.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Canazzi
> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
>
> Hi Luke,
>
> I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
> any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
> check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
> hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
> keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
> '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.
>
>
> On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
> > On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> >
> >> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
> >> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
> >> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
> >
> > And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
> > actually answer my question. Which was, again:
> >
> >>> How exactly do you know the window is still there?
> >
> > I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
> > that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?
> >
> > Luke
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>
>
>


Felix G.
 

Hi!
I would be pragmatic about it. If it is visually gone then announcing
it is, by definition, incorrect screen reader behavior regardless of
conditions. Invisible windows are not a valid metaphor in the sighted
user's world model, so why should we bother?
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@gmail.com>:


Its an interesting question as to just what is there. At times, something is there but I don't think it is a window. When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title bar and see information about that function. This is in Windows 7 with NVDA. I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later Windows versions.

Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what, and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to be able to move back to it. It might be technically interesting to know what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with Windows under certain conditions.

Gene.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Gene
 

Its an interesting question as to just what is there.  At times, something is there but I don't think it is a window.  When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title bar and see information about that function.  This is in Windows 7 with NVDA.  I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later Windows versions.
 
Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what, and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to be able to move back to it.  It might be technically interesting to know what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with Windows under certain conditions.
 
Gene.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
> On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>
>> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
>> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
>> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
>
> And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
> actually answer my question. Which was, again:
>
>>> How exactly do you know the window is still there?
>
> I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
> that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?
>
> Luke
>
>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Felix G.
 

Hi!
That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
as I reported in 2018:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389
The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
always possible.
To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
following statements in the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT
Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
been exorcised.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
<rob_hudson3182@opopanax.net>:


I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Rob Hudson
 

I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@roadrunner.com>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.

On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Luke Davis
 

On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke
Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,

In answer to your one question: no I do not use classic shell or similar legacy type utilities.


On 5/23/2020 11:08 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Ron,

             All I can tell you is that I have never encountered what you describe in my entire time working with Windows, prior to and with screen readers.  I have absolutely no idea what is going on, and I can't believe "it's a fluke" if you've had this going on that long.  That being said, that cries, "User action of some kind," having created the situation.  The question is, what?  Let's hope someone else has encountered it and knows the solution.

             The only window I've ever encountered during a copy or paste after cut is the status window giving progress, and that disappears on its own.  You aren't using something like Classic Shell or similar, are you?  Those utilities have settings that might possibly be configured such that this situation could occur.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep. I've seen this before, saw it when I was copying a 37 gig folder somewhere a few weeks ago. I had to alt tab away from the area. Then it was gone.

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On 22 May 2020, at 20:14, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 11:09 PM, Tyler Spivey wrote:
What's not is the status sticking around after the copy is clearly done.
And it's not clear to me from the original message that this is what's happening.  If it is, then you are absolutely correct.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Adriano Barbieri
 

Hi Ron,


Just move the cursor keys up or down and it disappears, at least if it has physically finished moving or pasting the files.
Regards
Adriano


Il 23/05/2020 04:59, Ron Canazzi ha scritto:

Hi Group,\

This is happening in Windows 10, but I think I recall it going way back to XP.  When you do the following:
1.  Open Windows Explorer
2.  Highlight a file or folder.
3.  Use control + X or Control + C to cut or copy the file or folder.
4.  Move to another folder or drive and press control + V to paste the file or folder to a new location.
5.  The result is that more often times than not, you get a ghost window that has a title of something like 87%, 94% or 100%.
6.  This ghost window goes away when you alt + tab away and then back to the new location.

Does anyone else experience this and is there a remedy?

Thanks for any help.

Brian Vogel
 

Ron,

             All I can tell you is that I have never encountered what you describe in my entire time working with Windows, prior to and with screen readers.  I have absolutely no idea what is going on, and I can't believe "it's a fluke" if you've had this going on that long.  That being said, that cries, "User action of some kind," having created the situation.  The question is, what?  Let's hope someone else has encountered it and knows the solution.

             The only window I've ever encountered during a copy or paste after cut is the status window giving progress, and that disappears on its own.  You aren't using something like Classic Shell or similar, are you?  Those utilities have settings that might possibly be configured such that this situation could occur.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Luke,

Well I have had it happen for years.  And no, no, no, did you all hear me, I said no!!!.  These windows never go away until I alt + tab away and back--regardless of how long the file has been copied. For experimental purposes, I did a small file transfer--about 5 KB in size and left the ghost window there over night. When I came back in the morning, the window was still there.

Now maybe it's something I am doing with respect to the copy and paste issue. Since almost no one else is experiencing this and I have been experiencing this on several systems over a decade or so, here is what I do to create the issue.

1.  Highlight a file in Windows Explorer.
2.  Press the hotkeys control + X or control + C to cut or copy to clipboard.
3.  Move to a new locoation on the system or on an external drive.
4.  use the hotkey control + V to paste the file.
5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.

On 5/23/2020 2:52 AM, Luke Davis wrote:
How exactly do you know the window is still there?

I have never experienced one of these windows sticking, and I have been moving files small and large for years.

The window shows up when you initiate the paste, and stays only long enough to finish moving the file.
I have even had a few such status windows open at a time during multiple paste operations, and still never had them get stuck.

Luke

On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

As mentioned in the previous post, this has gone way back before Windows 10--maybe back to XP.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Luke Davis
 

How exactly do you know the window is still there?

I have never experienced one of these windows sticking, and I have been moving files small and large for years.

The window shows up when you initiate the paste, and stays only long enough to finish moving the file.
I have even had a few such status windows open at a time during multiple paste operations, and still never had them get stuck.

Luke

On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

As mentioned in the previous post, this has gone way back before Windows 10--maybe back to XP.
Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,

As mentioned in the previous post, this has gone way back before Windows 10--maybe back to XP.


On 5/22/2020 11:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
By the way, whatever this is would not be NVDA related, but tied to Windows 10, whether some setting I'm unfamiliar with or a subtle corruption that's causing misbehavior.

There may be nothing wrong; it's not clear exactly what's being described.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,

The window never goes away.  If the file is small or if it is large, the Windows stays there until you alt + tab away and back.  Sighted people do not see this on the screen at all.


On 5/22/2020 11:03 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Ron,

          There's nothing odd about this if the folder being copied contains a large number of files, or if a file being copied is huge.  It's a status window telling you how far along the copy or paste is in process.

           I don't know if that status can be turned off or not, as I like getting it when an extensive transfer is in progress.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
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