ccleaner insites? accessible? discussion maybe?
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On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 05:26 AM, Gene wrote:
Whatever else you are asking for is something related to design or how clear companies should make these offers. They often aren't shown in an obvious manner to sighted people, or not as clearly as they should be, maybe they are on a page with all sorts of other options. If a blind person can look at the options, that is accessible. Blind people are just as responsible for reading things on pages as sighted people are.Yep, yep, and yep. It's also why I recommend, whether one is sighted or blind, using the Unchecky utility. While Unchecky is not 100% foolproof, it cuts down on the accidental installation of unwanted bundled software, known in "the biz" as potentially unwanted programs (PUPs), to a great extent. Many sighted people I know ignore "those little checkboxes" at the bottom of various install dialogs that come up and have the nerve to complain afterward that they got unwanted software. I find bundling loathsome, but it is absolutely not new, and has been the norm for years now. It is incumbent on the person doing any install, particularly for free software, to examine each and every element on each and every dialog if they want to avoid getting stuff they don't want. And if you don't, you will get that junk, plain and simple. We have to deal with the world as it is, and has been, not how we wish it would be. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth. ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019
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Gene
If the CDEX installer were properly accesssible,
you could see and refuse the added software. I looked at the installer
using System Access to Go and the offer was accessible. it wasn't even
indicated in any way with other screen-readers, that anything was there when it
was being discussed and a way to reject it was displayed.
You can use CDEX portable, which installs nothing
and has no such offers. Listss can't help with problems if people assume
asking won't help and don't ask. I hope you already owned Goldwave and
didn't spend forty dollars unnecessarily.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] ccleaner insites? accessible? discussion
maybe? Hmmm to be honest, I have half a mind as I said to tell them that we don't want any extra software installed!!! If they need adds, put them in a readable webpage at the end if they need sponsorship, heck, nagg us about buying on a after install webpage if they must, but we shouldn't have to bother about bundled software. Its why I use goldwave a 40 dollar us program instead of cdex because cdex has addon software, and why I quit using the dvdvideosoftware package and got pontes media which doesn't do this stuff and brought the applian suite wasting 200 us bucks and of which I hhardly used because dvdvideosoftware had so much spyware in it and other unwanted stuff that by installing it one day I basically bricked my laptop, and even after removing the software in question had to reformat because it left a mess behind. I think its time we tell the software makers that while we like and may buy their stuff, having adds shoved down our throats will drive us away or at least will make us gnash our teeth behind their backs. I shouldn't have to worry about what is being loaded to use my systware. I have had to give up good software because of foisted bundled stuff. Excluding software which installs chrome for me because that at least is usefull I have had to go to a lot of trouble to get stuff that does not try to give me a really bad and public deal. Its just the way I feel. I have noticed that the user seems to be happy to have second place and put up withh things but this is the new world now, the virus has got rid of the old one and in this world I think its time for users to fight for the choice of what we want to run and what we want to install. CCleaner has a slim installer but even so. On 28/05/2020 2:28 pm, Gene wrote:
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Gene
That isn't an accessibility question. If
something is offered during installation that a sighted person can see by the
installer, it must be accessible to a screen-reader. If something is
accessible on a web site, where an offer may be posted with some way to refuse,
such as a check box, from an accessibility standpoint, that is adequate.
If the installer shows something and that thing is accessible, again, that is
enough from an accessibility standpoint.
Whatever else you are asking for is something
related to design or how clear companies should make these offers. They
often aren't shown in an obvious manner to sighted people, or not as clearly as
they should be, maybe they are on a page with all sorts of other options.
If a blind person can look at the options, that is accessible. Blind
people are just as responsible for reading things on pages as sighted people
are. You can't use accessibility arguments to argue that a company change
its ethics or design if its just a question of a blind person doing what anyone
should do, read everything or enough of everything that you don't miss
something, such as the beginning of every line on installation pages other than
obvious navigation links.
Gene
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] ccleaner insites? accessible? discussion
maybe? Hmmm to be honest, I have half a mind as I said to tell them that we don't want any extra software installed!!! If they need adds, put them in a readable webpage at the end if they need sponsorship, heck, nagg us about buying on a after install webpage if they must, but we shouldn't have to bother about bundled software. Its why I use goldwave a 40 dollar us program instead of cdex because cdex has addon software, and why I quit using the dvdvideosoftware package and got pontes media which doesn't do this stuff and brought the applian suite wasting 200 us bucks and of which I hhardly used because dvdvideosoftware had so much spyware in it and other unwanted stuff that by installing it one day I basically bricked my laptop, and even after removing the software in question had to reformat because it left a mess behind. I think its time we tell the software makers that while we like and may buy their stuff, having adds shoved down our throats will drive us away or at least will make us gnash our teeth behind their backs. I shouldn't have to worry about what is being loaded to use my systware. I have had to give up good software because of foisted bundled stuff. Excluding software which installs chrome for me because that at least is usefull I have had to go to a lot of trouble to get stuff that does not try to give me a really bad and public deal. Its just the way I feel. I have noticed that the user seems to be happy to have second place and put up withh things but this is the new world now, the virus has got rid of the old one and in this world I think its time for users to fight for the choice of what we want to run and what we want to install. CCleaner has a slim installer but even so. On 28/05/2020 2:28 pm, Gene wrote:
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Hmmm to be honest, I have half a mind as I said to tell them that we don't want any extra software installed!!! If they need adds, put them in a readable webpage at the end if they need sponsorship, heck, nagg us about buying on a after install webpage if they must, but we shouldn't have to bother about bundled software. Its why I use goldwave a 40 dollar us program instead of cdex because cdex has addon software, and why I quit using the dvdvideosoftware package and got pontes media which doesn't do this stuff and brought the applian suite wasting 200 us bucks and of which I hhardly used because dvdvideosoftware had so much spyware in it and other unwanted stuff that by installing it one day I basically bricked my laptop, and even after removing the software in question had to reformat because it left a mess behind. I think its time we tell the software makers that while we like and may buy their stuff, having adds shoved down our throats will drive us away or at least will make us gnash our teeth behind their backs. I shouldn't have to worry about what is being loaded to use my systware. I have had to give up good software because of foisted bundled stuff. Excluding software which installs chrome for me because that at least is usefull I have had to go to a lot of trouble to get stuff that does not try to give me a really bad and public deal. Its just the way I feel. I have noticed that the user seems to be happy to have second place and put up withh things but this is the new world now, the virus has got rid of the old one and in this world I think its time for users to fight for the choice of what we want to run and what we want to install. CCleaner has a slim installer but even so.
On 28/05/2020 2:28 pm, Gene wrote:
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Gene
I don't use the product but I think that one of the
most important things is that notification of which additional software will be
installed and the refusal option be accessible. A lot of the time,
installers don't show such information in an accessible way and you don't know
what is being offered and you can't refuse it. I suspect CCleaner has this
problem and I think it is the most important problem. The user shouldn't
have software installed he/she can't refuse and isn't aware will be
installed. Not being able to use a program is very serious, having
something installed that may be difficult to remove and interferes with your use
of the computer aside from that program is worse.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 4:08 PM
Subject: [nvda] ccleaner insites? accessible? discussion
maybe? A while ago several months in fact as a user of ccleaner I recieved via their news letter a servey to tell piriform about their product and how good it was. Of course I naturally opend up a can on how bad it was, etc and all that. Today I got a message saying there is a panel going up, and asked me to join in one of the questions there was a question about screen readers. I don't know what this means, but this could be a step in the right direction. So my first thing to do is work on their accessibility issues. The first one is the control panel with all the checkboxes. My second are the settings in particular the button that switches on and off smartclean, I had to use narator to check that button else nvda would jump past it. Third is healthcheck itself, I am going to ask them to either make it accessible or have it turned off by default for screenreader users because we don't really need it anyway. Then there are add banners and messages which themselves are not accessible as they currently are. Finally, there is the startup of smart clean and other things on installd versions which we don't use or need and which can be a bother to turn off. Then finally last but not least, its the bundled software that is installed, I know they need advertising for their free versions, and if they really want sponsored listings and such they can open a page on their site with all the extras, sponsered software, etc if they must but not bundle it in. Avast aint that good, its not accessible and all the extras do is screw up our systems. I'd also like to add portable mode to installers. This is most of what I'd want. The most important are the controlpanel, buttons in settings and the health check for the first bash. Hell if they just got the control panel right and maybe the buttons in settings it should be a blooming good start. The panel indicated direct feadback live was another possibility so I would really like this. If others get this mail I'd encourage joining the panel. It seems that piriform or ccleaner or avast or whatever they are called are trying to do the right thing here. Its an awesome step in the right direction. Now on top of the windows update being so good, keeping 99.9% of all my settings in tact and all, I am a really happy user. |
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It is now no longer on there, CCleaner asked ninite to remove their product according to what the folks at ninite told me. Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here On 27 May 2020, at 14:20, Jackie wrote:
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Hmmm true, but ccleaner portable serves me well.
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All the settings are in an ini file and the app is on another site. And while ninite would probably work, the trick isn't to hide behind another tool or service, I think in my opinion you need to get involved with the makers themselves. Using another thirdparty service to access something else that you use tthat you should have access to may be fine but if you are like me you want backups of installers etc to transfer about if you need them for another system and what if the net dies. On 28/05/2020 9:20 am, Jackie wrote:
You know, Shaun, if you'd go to ninite.com, you can install a lot of |
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Jackie
You know, Shaun, if you'd go to ninite.com, you can install a lot of
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different software & have the bundled extras skipped. I don't know if CCleaner is on there, though I seem to remember that at some point it was. Good on you for bringing accessibility to their attention. On 5/27/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
Hi all. --
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to: wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs & check out my sites at www.brighter-vision.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com |
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Hi all.
A while ago several months in fact as a user of ccleaner I recieved via their news letter a servey to tell piriform about their product and how good it was. Of course I naturally opend up a can on how bad it was, etc and all that. Today I got a message saying there is a panel going up, and asked me to join in one of the questions there was a question about screen readers. I don't know what this means, but this could be a step in the right direction. So my first thing to do is work on their accessibility issues. The first one is the control panel with all the checkboxes. My second are the settings in particular the button that switches on and off smartclean, I had to use narator to check that button else nvda would jump past it. Third is healthcheck itself, I am going to ask them to either make it accessible or have it turned off by default for screenreader users because we don't really need it anyway. Then there are add banners and messages which themselves are not accessible as they currently are. Finally, there is the startup of smart clean and other things on installd versions which we don't use or need and which can be a bother to turn off. Then finally last but not least, its the bundled software that is installed, I know they need advertising for their free versions, and if they really want sponsored listings and such they can open a page on their site with all the extras, sponsered software, etc if they must but not bundle it in. Avast aint that good, its not accessible and all the extras do is screw up our systems. I'd also like to add portable mode to installers. This is most of what I'd want. The most important are the controlpanel, buttons in settings and the health check for the first bash. Hell if they just got the control panel right and maybe the buttons in settings it should be a blooming good start. The panel indicated direct feadback live was another possibility so I would really like this. If others get this mail I'd encourage joining the panel. It seems that piriform or ccleaner or avast or whatever they are called are trying to do the right thing here. Its an awesome step in the right direction. Now on top of the windows update being so good, keeping 99.9% of all my settings in tact and all, I am a really happy user. |
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