Survey: Preferred Help Format


tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:

 

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

A)      Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B)      HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

C)      PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.

 


Ângelo Abrantes
 

he,

To use directly on the computer, I like more chm, if it is well done and respect the standards of accessibility.

When I look for help on the internet, it seems preferable to html, because it allows a great navigation versatility.
Cheers.
Ângelo Abrantes

Às 14:44 de 11-12-2017, tonea.ctr.morrow@... escreveu:

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:

 

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

A)      Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B)      HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

C)      PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.

 



Sem vírus. www.avast.com


 

hello.
as i said before, html is the best format!
after that is chm and pdf is the worse format specially for persian users!
html is the best, browsers and screen readers support it very well.
they are many shortcuts that make navigation easier and we can jump to
our desire parts of web and our desired element just by using one
letter.
for example: we can navigate by heading using letter h.
hope that help you, God bless you all!

On 12/11/17, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov> wrote:
My team hasn't told me which help format we will be using for the online
help. So, I thought I'd ask a little survey:

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does
one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with
which to make a screen reader work?:

A) Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on
the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center
areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B) HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing
runs in a web browser-whichever one is your default browswer.

C) PDF - Portable Document Format with proper tags.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Angela Delicata
 

+1: html is very accessible and easy to navigate.

Best.
Angela from Italy

Il 11/12/2017 15:57, zahra ha scritto:
hello.
as i said before, html is the best format!
after that is chm and pdf is the worse format specially for persian users!
html is the best, browsers and screen readers support it very well.
they are many shortcuts that make navigation easier and we can jump to
our desire parts of web and our desired element just by using one
letter.
for example: we can navigate by heading using letter h.
hope that help you, God bless you all!

On 12/11/17, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov> wrote:
My team hasn't told me which help format we will be using for the online
help. So, I thought I'd ask a little survey:

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does
one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with
which to make a screen reader work?:

A) Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on
the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center
areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B) HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing
runs in a web browser-whichever one is your default browswer.

C) PDF - Portable Document Format with proper tags.


Damien Sykes <damien@...>
 

Hi there,
I have never been able to get WinHelp to work with screen readers. Having said that, WinHelp being a legacy format from the old XP days I have never actually tried using it with NVDA.
Again, PDF is another struggling point, at least for me. Converting into a plaintext or HTML format is possible, but it’s nice to be able to just open a document and read it straight away.
HTML help: I tend to prefer this option, though there are two options, packed as a .CHM (compiled HTML format) file, which seems to be the current Windows favourite, or as a single or multiple page folder or zip file etc. I personally had nothing against CHM’s until very recently, when some CHM’s I made refused to open the web pages on a friend’s machine, and when I switched to a 64-bit machine and all NVDA could say while navigating the contents tree was “Unknown, Unknown, Unknown”. Needless to say, that has unfortunately well and truly put me off CHM’s and has had me resorting to decompiling those into multiple page standard webpages and looking at the contents and index pages in source form. Again, not the best way to view help documentation in my opinion.
Obviously depending on machine, Windows version and, um, bitness? Screen reader version, confidence etc, different people will have different methods of dealing with these situations. But personally for me, the way I write help files now are as either a single document, or if it’s a big project, a folder with multiple HTML files, with the main file being called index which contains a table of contents.
Cheers.
Damien.
 

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 2:44 PM
Subject: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format
 

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:

 

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

A)      Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B)      HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

C)      PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I far prefer the web browser option. Its based on something everyone should learn first, ie how web sites work etc, so one does not need to know about function keys and all of that sort of stuff.
Its also easier if you want to cut and past stuff for future ref as well.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 2:44 PM
Subject: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format


My team hasn't told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I'd ask a little survey:

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

A) Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B) HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser-whichever one is your default browswer.

C) PDF - Portable Document Format with proper tags.


Tony Ballou
 

Hi,


Perhaps either the .chm or .html versions would be best because they are what we as blind users are most familiar with. If I had to choose one over the other though, the .chm file version was good for me for the longest time and it's more of a preference thing than anything else.  you get use to the .html version eventually.


Tony


On 12/11/2017 9:44 AM, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:

 

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

A)      Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B)      HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

C)      PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.

 



Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I do not like pdf due to the problems it has if its not used with approved readers and if there are any mistakes in tagging. its also slow.
HTML however its done is far better, If the only difference is the way its stored we need hardly know about it. One thing to watch is not to provide an internal browser of the programs own making as these are notoriously inaccessible unless based on something like the old Mozilla code or IE.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Sykes" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format


Hi there,
I have never been able to get WinHelp to work with screen readers. Having said that, WinHelp being a legacy format from the old XP days I have never actually tried using it with NVDA.
Again, PDF is another struggling point, at least for me. Converting into a plaintext or HTML format is possible, but it’s nice to be able to just open a document and read it straight away.
HTML help: I tend to prefer this option, though there are two options, packed as a .CHM (compiled HTML format) file, which seems to be the current Windows favourite, or as a single or multiple page folder or zip file etc. I personally had nothing against CHM’s until very recently, when some CHM’s I made refused to open the web pages on a friend’s machine, and when I switched to a 64-bit machine and all NVDA could say while navigating the contents tree was “Unknown, Unknown, Unknown”. Needless to say, that has unfortunately well and truly put me off CHM’s and has had me resorting to decompiling those into multiple page standard webpages and looking at the contents and index pages in source form. Again, not the best way to view help documentation in my opinion.
Obviously depending on machine, Windows version and, um, bitness? Screen reader version, confidence etc, different people will have different methods of dealing with these situations. But personally for me, the way I write help files now are as either a single document, or if it’s a big project, a folder with multiple HTML files, with the main file being called index which contains a table of contents.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 2:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:



Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

A) Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B) HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

C) PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.


Gene
 

I haven't used PDF to any extent.  Isn't HTML mostly used now?  Whatever the case, if people have problems using CHM, that's another instance of poor instruction or of people picking up Windows and other learning not in an organized manner.  CHM is just as easy to use as HTML if you know how to use it.  I won't go into how to use it in this message, but it's a question of knowing  how to use it.  and knowing how to work with a treeview, an essential piece of knowledge for CHM help, is important to know in other contexts.  I'm not blaming people for not knowing how to use CHM help for whatever reason or reasons.  But it is worth knowing. 
 
CHM not only has a contents treeview, it has a search function and an index function as well.  I run into a CHM help system now and then and it is an advantage for blind people to know how to use it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format

Hi,


Perhaps either the .chm or .html versions would be best because they are what we as blind users are most familiar with. If I had to choose one over the other though, the .chm file version was good for me for the longest time and it's more of a preference thing than anything else.  you get use to the .html version eventually.


Tony


On 12/11/2017 9:44 AM, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:

 

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->A)      <!--[endif]-->Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->B)      <!--[endif]-->HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->C)      <!--[endif]-->PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.

 



Damien Sykes <damien@...>
 

Hi,
I know how to use CHM. But it seems that the CHM viewer is deteriorating. It’s not that we don’t know how to use it (granted there may be some who don’t), but my friend can’t read content in CHM documents that I compile (the actual HTML content is just showing a blank page for him on every item), and it seems to be the 64-bit version of the viewer gives me a treeview of items that NVDA reads as “unknown”. I find the index useful in large programming references and such, but usually a table of contents suggests a recommended order to read something in. And that’s fairly hard if all you have is a treeview with a bunch of items that read as “unknown” and that can’t even differentiate whether an item is opened, closed or on its own...I only ever had that problem since switching to 64-bit Windows. On 32-bit, I could read CHM files with absolutely no issues whatsoever.
Cheers.
Damien.
 

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format
 
I haven't used PDF to any extent.  Isn't HTML mostly used now?  Whatever the case, if people have problems using CHM, that's another instance of poor instruction or of people picking up Windows and other learning not in an organized manner.  CHM is just as easy to use as HTML if you know how to use it.  I won't go into how to use it in this message, but it's a question of knowing  how to use it.  and knowing how to work with a treeview, an essential piece of knowledge for CHM help, is important to know in other contexts.  I'm not blaming people for not knowing how to use CHM help for whatever reason or reasons.  But it is worth knowing. 
 
CHM not only has a contents treeview, it has a search function and an index function as well.  I run into a CHM help system now and then and it is an advantage for blind people to know how to use it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format
 

Hi,


Perhaps either the .chm or .html versions would be best because they are what we as blind users are most familiar with. If I had to choose one over the other though, the .chm file version was good for me for the longest time and it's more of a preference thing than anything else.  you get use to the .html version eventually.


Tony


On 12/11/2017 9:44 AM, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:

 

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->A)      <!--[endif]-->Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->B)      <!--[endif]-->HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->C)      <!--[endif]-->PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.

 



Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think the problem with some forms of help using the split screen method is that sometimes the layout of help is not that optimal and you have to keep going back and forth to see if what you want is under some other heading.
Of course you need to do this too in html help but you are saved the irritation of switching panels all the time, you just go back to the main index in the page.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format


I haven't used PDF to any extent. Isn't HTML mostly used now? Whatever the case, if people have problems using CHM, that's another instance of poor instruction or of people picking up Windows and other learning not in an organized manner. CHM is just as easy to use as HTML if you know how to use it. I won't go into how to use it in this message, but it's a question of knowing how to use it. and knowing how to work with a treeview, an essential piece of knowledge for CHM help, is important to know in other contexts. I'm not blaming people for not knowing how to use CHM help for whatever reason or reasons. But it is worth knowing.

CHM not only has a contents treeview, it has a search function and an index function as well. I run into a CHM help system now and then and it is an advantage for blind people to know how to use it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Ballou
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format


Hi,




Perhaps either the .chm or .html versions would be best because they are what we as blind users are most familiar with. If I had to choose one over the other though, the .chm file version was good for me for the longest time and it's more of a preference thing than anything else. you get use to the .html version eventually.




Tony




On 12/11/2017 9:44 AM, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov wrote:

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:



Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->A) <!--[endif]-->Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->B) <!--[endif]-->HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->C) <!--[endif]-->PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.


Clare Page <clare.page@...>
 

Hi!

Given that just about all computer users know how to navigate HTML pages, since that’s what we all do on the Internet, maybe that is a better option.

As for CHM, which several people here have mentioned, I admit I hadn’t heard of it till I read this thread, as I’m not very tech-savvy. But it’s possible that at some point I have read a CHM help file without realizing what it was.

If you want these help files to be used by people without much technical knowledge, they’re probably better off with something they are familiar with, and, as I mentioned, all of us are familiar with HTML, unless we are very new to using computers in the first place.

Just my two cents’ worth, but each to their own opinion on this!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Damien Sykes
Sent: lundi 11 décembre 2017 19:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format

 

Hi,

I know how to use CHM. But it seems that the CHM viewer is deteriorating. It’s not that we don’t know how to use it (granted there may be some who don’t), but my friend can’t read content in CHM documents that I compile (the actual HTML content is just showing a blank page for him on every item), and it seems to be the 64-bit version of the viewer gives me a treeview of items that NVDA reads as “unknown”. I find the index useful in large programming references and such, but usually a table of contents suggests a recommended order to read something in. And that’s fairly hard if all you have is a treeview with a bunch of items that read as “unknown” and that can’t even differentiate whether an item is opened, closed or on its own...I only ever had that problem since switching to 64-bit Windows. On 32-bit, I could read CHM files with absolutely no issues whatsoever.

Cheers.
Damien.

 

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:45 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format

 

I haven't used PDF to any extent.  Isn't HTML mostly used now?  Whatever the case, if people have problems using CHM, that's another instance of poor instruction or of people picking up Windows and other learning not in an organized manner.  CHM is just as easy to use as HTML if you know how to use it.  I won't go into how to use it in this message, but it's a question of knowing  how to use it.  and knowing how to work with a treeview, an essential piece of knowledge for CHM help, is important to know in other contexts.  I'm not blaming people for not knowing how to use CHM help for whatever reason or reasons.  But it is worth knowing. 

 

CHM not only has a contents treeview, it has a search function and an index function as well.  I run into a CHM help system now and then and it is an advantage for blind people to know how to use it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:35 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Survey: Preferred Help Format

 

Hi,

 

Perhaps either the .chm or .html versions would be best because they are what we as blind users are most familiar with. If I had to choose one over the other though, the .chm file version was good for me for the longest time and it's more of a preference thing than anything else.  you get use to the .html version eventually.

 

Tony

 

On 12/11/2017 9:44 AM, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

My team hasn’t told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I’d ask a little survey:

 

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->A)      <!--[endif]-->Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->B)      <!--[endif]-->HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser—whichever one is your default browswer.

<!--[if !supportLists]-->C)      <!--[endif]-->PDF – Portable Document Format with proper tags.

 

 


 

It depends on what you want.

1.  htm, its the easiest system to handle.

You can use it in any browser app.

2.  chm, well its searchable, you can use something like 7zip to extract the html out of that.

Pdf.

I havn't  really used this format, I have converted that to text files and read it like that.

Html would be my prefered option over all as you can get access to it any way you wish.

Chm is basically html but in a treeview I guess it could work.

I have used pdf manuals but its much easier to have html.

Saying that if its all online for something then thats fine to.

Word documents are good, text files can be a bit long winded but can also be good.

On 12/12/2017 3:44 a.m., tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov wrote:
My team hasn't told me which help format we will be using for the online help. So, I thought I'd ask a little survey:

Which online help system do you prefer to use and a brief why, a.k.a. does one grant you more opportunities than another or is one more difficult with which to make a screen reader work?:

A) Win Help (chm): old-style windows help system with a content tree on the left, a large pane containing information filling the right and center areas, and a header across the top with forward, backward type buttons.

B) HTML Help: the design is similar to Win Help, but the whole thing runs in a web browser-whichever one is your default browswer.

C) PDF - Portable Document Format with proper tags.