Caption location


tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

I know that each of you are being very patient with my questions. I appreciate that.

 

Guidelines say that blind-friendly places information about a graphic prior to the graphic. But, the software I use put the caption for the graphic in an HTML caption tag, which places it under or after the graphic. Are they equivalent or is one better than the other?

 

Tonea


 

Hi Tonea,

It doesn’t really matter as long as the screen reader can read captions (provided the author and/or the program did it correctly).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Caption location

 

I know that each of you are being very patient with my questions. I appreciate that.

 

Guidelines say that blind-friendly places information about a graphic prior to the graphic. But, the software I use put the caption for the graphic in an HTML caption tag, which places it under or after the graphic. Are they equivalent or is one better than the other?

 

Tonea


Antony Stone
 

It could be helpful if you let us know which guidelines you are working with
(the ones which "say that blind-friendly places information...").

Incidentally, I very strongly agree with Joseph Lee's recommendation that you
ask your employer to install (or let you install) NVDA on your machine. If
you are trying to create accessible materials in your job, you need an
accessibility tool to let you know whether you're getting it right.

After all, would they ask you to create HTML pages without providing you with
a browser to view them in?


Antony.

On Tuesday 12 December 2017 at 18:43:55, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov wrote:

I know that each of you are being very patient with my questions. I
appreciate that.

Guidelines say that blind-friendly places information about a graphic prior
to the graphic. But, the software I use put the caption for the graphic in
an HTML caption tag, which places it under or after the graphic. Are they
equivalent or is one better than the other?

Tonea
--
"Remember: the S in IoT stands for Security."

- Jan-Piet Mens

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location


It could be helpful if you let us know which guidelines you are working with
(the ones which "say that blind-friendly places information...").

Incidentally, I very strongly agree with Joseph Lee's recommendation that you
ask your employer to install (or let you install) NVDA on your machine. If
you are trying to create accessible materials in your job, you need an
accessibility tool to let you know whether you're getting it right.

After all, would they ask you to create HTML pages without providing you with
a browser to view them in?


Antony.

On Tuesday 12 December 2017 at 18:43:55, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov wrote:

I know that each of you are being very patient with my questions. I
appreciate that.

Guidelines say that blind-friendly places information about a graphic prior
to the graphic. But, the software I use put the caption for the graphic in
an HTML caption tag, which places it under or after the graphic. Are they
equivalent or is one better than the other?

Tonea
--
"Remember: the S in IoT stands for Security."

- Jan-Piet Mens

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes and Zoom Text. I know I won’t get JAWS because it is too expensive. You really, really have to justify that much money.

 

I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved software is outdated. If it isn’t approved, it doesn’t matter if it is free.

 

We’ll see what comes of things.

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.

Brian

 


Brian Moore
 

well, window-eyes is no longer available and Zoomtext is more of a magnification program although it does have some screen reading capability although it is somewhat limited.


However, these changes are recent and big orgs move slowly so this might still be the approved list!


Hope not.


Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
On 12/13/2017 1:59 PM, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes and Zoom Text. I know I won’t get JAWS because it is too expensive. You really, really have to justify that much money.

 

I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved software is outdated. If it isn’t approved, it doesn’t matter if it is free.

 

We’ll see what comes of things.

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.

Brian

 



Rayn Darren
 

Jaws runs in 40 minute (trial) mode, though when it runs out, you’ll need to restart to use it again. They do need to update your list as Window Eyes and Jaws merged like a year ago…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes and Zoom Text. I know I won’t get JAWS because it is too expensive. You really, really have to justify that much money.

 

I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved software is outdated. If it isn’t approved, it doesn’t matter if it is free.

 

We’ll see what comes of things.

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.

Brian

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Rayn Darren
 

MAGic is actually better than Zoom Text, has more speech as far as I can remember, but it has the same issue as Jaws, 40 minute mode.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Moore
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

well, window-eyes is no longer available and Zoomtext is more of a magnification program although it does have some screen reading capability although it is somewhat limited.

 

However, these changes are recent and big orgs move slowly so this might still be the approved list!

 

Hope not.

 

Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 12/13/2017 1:59 PM, tonea.ctr.morrow@... wrote:

I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes and Zoom Text. I know I won’t get JAWS because it is too expensive. You really, really have to justify that much money.

 

I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved software is outdated. If it isn’t approved, it doesn’t matter if it is free.

 

We’ll see what comes of things.

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.

Brian

 

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Gene
 

Is it more likely that you could use a portable version of NVDA than the installed version?  You can run it portable not even on the machine, but on a thumb drive.  Doing that may be against policy, but I want to bring up all possibilities.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

Jaws runs in 40 minute (trial) mode, though when it runs out, you’ll need to restart to use it again. They do need to update your list as Window Eyes and Jaws merged like a year ago…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes and Zoom Text. I know I won’t get JAWS because it is too expensive. You really, really have to justify that much money.

 

I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved software is outdated. If it isn’t approved, it doesn’t matter if it is free.

 

We’ll see what comes of things.

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.

Brian

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Giles Turnbull
 

Hello tonea,

I understand that you're not allowed to install NVDA or JAWS on your work computer without approval from the IT department but, assuming you have your own personal computer at home, have you not thought of installing NVDA on it, just to get a feel for how screen reading software works? Alternatively, could you not arrange a half day visit to a vision rehab training center and ask them to show you JAWS or NVDA in use, and demonstrate how a user can switch the verbocity of punctuation symbols and what effect that has? On your home computer you could try creating a dummy document with parentheses, for example, to see how NVDA reads them, and you would find many people on this list only too happy to tell you where to find the setting to switch symbol level from all to most to some and then to none.

Why not install NVDA at home and then look at your department's public website and read the webpages and PDF file downloads and find out how a visually impaired person using NVDA would experience them? I've worked as a sighted Civil Servant for the Department of Transport in London, and as a blind person on a contract for the Environmental Protection Agency in the US, and I must say it's heartwarming to see somebody so keen to understand how blind and visually impaired people experience the world in which you work :)

Giles


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

They are very blinkered if its not approved. Its open source so they can check that its not a virus. Besides, they should have enough security on their system to be able to use software which major organisations use without problems, heaven forbid there are gaping holes in Adobe and Java and they have been around since the stone age.



Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location


I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes and Zoom Text. I know I won't get JAWS because it is too expensive. You really, really have to justify that much money.



I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved software is outdated. If it isn't approved, it doesn't matter if it is free.



We'll see what comes of things.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location



If the texts are to be packaged as PDF it becomes even more important to have a screenreader as tagging the reading order through a document is very very important.

Brian


Antony Stone
 

If the material you are creating is for general public use (rather than for
employees of big organisations), you should be able to justify that NVDA is
the most common screen reader in use by that user group.


Antony.

On Wednesday 13 December 2017 at 19:59:50, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov wrote:

I went through the approved list of software and found JAWS and Window Eyes
and Zoom Text. I know I won't get JAWS because it is too expensive. You
really, really have to justify that much money.

I did put in a request for NVDA on the chance that my copy of approved
software is outdated. If it isn't approved, it doesn't matter if it is
free.

We'll see what comes of things.


Tonea
--
What makes you think I know what I'm talking about?
I just have more O'Reilly books than most people.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

No, I want to keep my job.

 

Tonea

 

----- Original Message -----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

Is it more likely that you could use a portable version of NVDA than the installed version?  You can run it portable not even on the machine, but on a thumb drive.  Doing that may be against policy, but I want to bring up all possibilities.

 

Gene

 


tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

Chuckling to myself—I have a mac at home.

 

Honestly though, I have an autistic son who turns 18 next month and a daughter who turns 16 a month later. I’m lucky if I get time to relax. My house doesn’t warrant a visit from the health department, but I can’t say it is clean either. Try to get a load of dishes or laundry done. Try to make sure everyone has dinner. Try to get two teens to do something resembling helping with the house. Try to listen to their stories about their day. Listen to the umpteenth complaint about how I don’t understand. I’m not being sarcastic when I say that I love my life. I’m needed to the point that I’m important to them, even if they don’t like it. I will miss them in a few years, so I’m enjoying what time I have.

 

Regarding the compliment, I say “Thank You.”

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Giles Turnbull
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

 

Hello tonea,

I understand that you're not allowed to install NVDA or JAWS on your work computer without approval from the IT department but, assuming you have your own personal computer at home, have you not thought of installing NVDA on it, just to get a feel for how screen reading software works? Alternatively, could you not arrange a half day visit to a vision rehab training center and ask them to show you JAWS or NVDA in use, and demonstrate how a user can switch the verbocity of punctuation symbols and what effect that has? On your home computer you could try creating a dummy document with parentheses, for example, to see how NVDA reads them, and you would find many people on this list only too happy to tell you where to find the setting to switch symbol level from all to most to some and then to none.

Why not install NVDA at home and then look at your department's public website and read the webpages and PDF file downloads and find out how a visually impaired person using NVDA would experience them? I've worked as a sighted Civil Servant for the Department of Transport in London, and as a blind person on a contract for the Environmental Protection Agency in the US, and I must say it's heartwarming to see somebody so keen to understand how blind and visually impaired people experience the world in which you work :)

Giles

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Actually if they don't let you do It I'd suggest that unless you live in a land in the dark ages perhaps they might think what might happen if a customer took them to court for inaccessible software as its probably against some act or other in the disability legislation.
Its attitudes like you are encountering which prolong the problems we are fighting about inaccessible software. The more the vendors grasp the nettle at the start of development rather than attempting to glue it on afterwards the fairer the world of employment will get for blind people.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location


No, I want to keep my job.

Tonea

----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Caption location

Is it more likely that you could use a portable version of NVDA than the installed version? You can run it portable not even on the machine, but on a thumb drive. Doing that may be against policy, but I want to bring up all possibilities.

Gene