Date
1 - 11 of 11
A possible bug
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Gene
I'm using the latest beta, I haven't switched to the production version.
This appears to be a bug and it may result in information being missed. On The New York Times home page, using Firefox or Brave, I haven't yet tested with Chrome, but Brave is Chrome-based, when you get to the opinion part of the page, the articles in that section aren't seen as headings. All other articles are seen as headings and using a very old NVDA, the articles in the opinion section are seen as headings. This is using Windows 7. I just tested with NVDA 2019.2.21 and the same thing happens so this likely bug has been around for some time. I also just tested with Chrome and the same thing occurs. All articles in the opinion section are skipped and the screen-reader moves directly to the editor's picks heading. It needs to be determined what is causing this problem and that may help determine its seriousness. Gene |
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Quentin Christensen
Hi Gene, It looks like those articles aren't marked up as headings. If you go to the Opinion heading, you can then press TAB or K to go to the links for the pieces, but they aren't reported as headings. Looking in the elements list, I can find them in the links but not headings. Pages like the New York Times are quite complex and it's likely something has been missed somewhere along the line. What did the NYT people have to say? Quentin. On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:24 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: I'm using the latest beta, I haven't switched to the production version. --
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Gene
When I use a very old version of NVDA, they are reported as headings when I move from heading to heading with report headings turned on. I don't know what the last version was that this occurs. I can also move to the articles when using filter by headings in the elements list of the old version.
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I don't know how old a version of NVDA needs to be used. I use Windows 7 and I still use 13.x much of the time because it does almost everything I want. I play around with new versions at times. All other articles on the page are reported as headings in the new NVDA. So why aren't these and how often, on other pages, may material be being missed? Evidently, there is something different about these headings but what? Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Christensen Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 8:27 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug Hi Gene, It looks like those articles aren't marked up as headings. If you go to the Opinion heading, you can then press TAB or K to go to the links for the pieces, but they aren't reported as headings. Looking in the elements list, I can find them in the links but not headings. Pages like the New York Times are quite complex and it's likely something has been missed somewhere along the line. What did the NYT people have to say? Quentin. On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:24 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: I'm using the latest beta, I haven't switched to the production version. This appears to be a bug and it may result in information being missed. On The New York Times home page, using Firefox or Brave, I haven't yet tested with Chrome, but Brave is Chrome-based, when you get to the opinion part of the page, the articles in that section aren't seen as headings. All other articles are seen as headings and using a very old NVDA, the articles in the opinion section are seen as headings. This is using Windows 7. I just tested with NVDA 2019.2.21 and the same thing happens so this likely bug has been around for some time. I also just tested with Chrome and the same thing occurs. All articles in the opinion section are skipped and the screen-reader moves directly to the editor's picks heading. It needs to be determined what is causing this problem and that may help determine its seriousness. Gene -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Gene
I haven't asked The Times. I thought it was a problem with NVDA since mhy old version recognizes them as headings. I haven't used JAWS to any extent for years but it might be useful for someone using a current JAWS to see if these links are seen as headings.
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Gene Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 8:42 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug When I use a very old version of NVDA, they are reported as headings when I move from heading to heading with report headings turned on. I don't know what the last version was that this occurs. I can also move to the articles when using filter by headings in the elements list of the old version. I don't know how old a version of NVDA needs to be used. I use Windows 7 and I still use 13.x much of the time because it does almost everything I want. I play around with new versions at times. All other articles on the page are reported as headings in the new NVDA. So why aren't these and how often, on other pages, may material be being missed? Evidently, there is something different about these headings but what? Gene -----Original Message----- From: Quentin Christensen Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 8:27 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug Hi Gene, It looks like those articles aren't marked up as headings. If you go to the Opinion heading, you can then press TAB or K to go to the links for the pieces, but they aren't reported as headings. Looking in the elements list, I can find them in the links but not headings. Pages like the New York Times are quite complex and it's likely something has been missed somewhere along the line. What did the NYT people have to say? Quentin. On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:24 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: I'm using the latest beta, I haven't switched to the production version. This appears to be a bug and it may result in information being missed. On The New York Times home page, using Firefox or Brave, I haven't yet tested with Chrome, but Brave is Chrome-based, when you get to the opinion part of the page, the articles in that section aren't seen as headings. All other articles are seen as headings and using a very old NVDA, the articles in the opinion section are seen as headings. This is using Windows 7. I just tested with NVDA 2019.2.21 and the same thing happens so this likely bug has been around for some time. I also just tested with Chrome and the same thing occurs. All articles in the opinion section are skipped and the screen-reader moves directly to the editor's picks heading. It needs to be determined what is causing this problem and that may help determine its seriousness. Gene -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
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Sam Taylor
I can confirm that these are seen as links when using latest JFW
both with Firefox and MSEdge. I therefore don't believe this to be
an NVDA issue.
On 7/08/2020 11:46 am, Gene wrote:
I haven't asked The Times. I thought it was a problem with NVDA since mhy old version recognizes them as headings. I haven't used JAWS to any extent for years but it might be useful for someone using a current JAWS to see if these links are seen as headings. |
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Gene
Are you saying they aren't seen as headings? I see them as links but not as headings, unlike every other article on the page.
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Sam Taylor via groups.io Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 8:53 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug I can confirm that these are seen as links when using latest JFW both with Firefox and MSEdge. I therefore don't believe this to be an NVDA issue. On 7/08/2020 11:46 am, Gene wrote: I haven't asked The Times. I thought it was a problem with NVDA since mhy old version recognizes them as headings. I haven't used JAWS to any extent for years but it might be useful for someone using a current JAWS to see if these links are seen as headings. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Gene Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 8:42 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug When I use a very old version of NVDA, they are reported as headings when I move from heading to heading with report headings turned on. I don't know what the last version was that this occurs. I can also move to the articles when using filter by headings in the elements list of the old version. I don't know how old a version of NVDA needs to be used. I use Windows 7 and I still use 13.x much of the time because it does almost everything I want. I play around with new versions at times. All other articles on the page are reported as headings in the new NVDA. So why aren't these and how often, on other pages, may material be being missed? Evidently, there is something different about these headings but what? Gene -----Original Message----- From: Quentin Christensen Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 8:27 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug Hi Gene, It looks like those articles aren't marked up as headings. If you go to the Opinion heading, you can then press TAB or K to go to the links for the pieces, but they aren't reported as headings. Looking in the elements list, I can find them in the links but not headings. Pages like the New York Times are quite complex and it's likely something has been missed somewhere along the line. What did the NYT people have to say? Quentin. On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:24 AM Gene mailto:gsasner@... wrote: I'm using the latest beta, I haven't switched to the production version. This appears to be a bug and it may result in information being missed. On The New York Times home page, using Firefox or Brave, I haven't yet tested with Chrome, but Brave is Chrome-based, when you get to the opinion part of the page, the articles in that section aren't seen as headings. All other articles are seen as headings and using a very old NVDA, the articles in the opinion section are seen as headings. This is using Windows 7. I just tested with NVDA 2019.2.21 and the same thing happens so this likely bug has been around for some time. I also just tested with Chrome and the same thing occurs. All articles in the opinion section are skipped and the screen-reader moves directly to the editor's picks heading. It needs to be determined what is causing this problem and that may help determine its seriousness. Gene |
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Sam Taylor
Correct, they are not seen as headings.
On 7/08/2020 11:58 am, Gene wrote:
Are you saying they aren't seen as headings? I see them as links but not as headings, unlike every other article on the page. |
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Greg Williams
It is an issue with the HTML. For whatever reason, they coded the links under the opinion section differently than the rest of the links. They used accessibility badly which made it worse than if they had done nothing. In the opinion section, the put an aria-label on the <a> tag for the link; this tells assistive technology to ignore any other text in the link. The h2 tag is wrapped inside the <a> tag which means that it also gets ignored by the assitive technology.
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I imagine that the reason the old version of NVDA detected the headings is that it is old enough that it did not handle aria-labels and so just ignored them and picked up the nested content including the h2. I will stop here and refrain from giving my opinion on the coding practices in the webpage. Greg On 8/6/2020 9:46 PM, Gene wrote:
I haven't asked The Times. I thought it was a problem with NVDA since mhy old version recognizes them as headings. I haven't used JAWS to any extent for years but it might be useful for someone using a current JAWS to see if these links are seen as headings. |
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Gene
I'm not sure if I have the technical knowledge to present this to The Times. Do you object if I forward part of your remarks that describe the problem?
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Greg Williams Sent: Friday, August 07, 2020 2:02 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug It is an issue with the HTML. For whatever reason, they coded the links under the opinion section differently than the rest of the links. They used accessibility badly which made it worse than if they had done nothing. In the opinion section, the put an aria-label on the <a> tag for the link; this tells assistive technology to ignore any other text in the link. The h2 tag is wrapped inside the <a> tag which means that it also gets ignored by the assitive technology. I imagine that the reason the old version of NVDA detected the headings is that it is old enough that it did not handle aria-labels and so just ignored them and picked up the nested content including the h2. I will stop here and refrain from giving my opinion on the coding practices in the webpage. Greg On 8/6/2020 9:46 PM, Gene wrote: I haven't asked The Times. I thought it was a problem with NVDA since mhy old version recognizes them as headings. I haven't used JAWS to any extent for years but it might be useful for someone using a current JAWS to see if these links are seen as headings. |
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Greg Williams
That would be fine with me. Also I forgot to say that I verified that removing the aria-label from the link did allow NVDA to see the h2 tag as it does in the other links.
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Greg On 8/7/2020 3:28 PM, Gene wrote:
I'm not sure if I have the technical knowledge to present this to The Times. Do you object if I forward part of your remarks that describe the problem? |
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Gene
I'll send it.
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Its good to know the problem isn't a fault with NVDA. Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Greg Williams Sent: Friday, August 07, 2020 2:43 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] A possible bug That would be fine with me. Also I forgot to say that I verified that removing the aria-label from the link did allow NVDA to see the h2 tag as it does in the other links. Greg On 8/7/2020 3:28 PM, Gene wrote: I'm not sure if I have the technical knowledge to present this to The Times. Do you object if I forward part of your remarks that describe the problem? |
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