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When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA should also have the same function the main question is whether or not NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to pay for a screen reader.
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NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of
other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether
this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper
question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources.
However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do,
not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical
and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of
functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were
really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped
with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many
users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA
is run.
If this were done, the major objection against
making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that
a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being
discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be
included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be
an add on could be done away with.
Gene
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and
if NVDA should also have the same function the main question is whether or
not NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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I am one that hopes that NVDA doesn't try to compete with any other screen reader but continue to make improvements that makes the most sense relative to giving blind people as much access to computers as possible. Addons is a perfect way to introduce useful tools in a efficient way.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 12/17/2017 6:07 PM, Gene wrote: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA
and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part
of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an
add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this project.
And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However,
when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used
to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves
users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance
not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were
really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and
were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use
will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there
are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as
addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use
whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away
with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add
ons at the time of download and installation or portable use,
the whole question and argument about whether something should
be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if
NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or
not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get
more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the
ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be
pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns
for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui
Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with
NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start
being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an
add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do
what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it,
but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no
reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they
were really scripts, but they were available to users as add
ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at
the time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that
should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded
and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never
use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done
away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and
if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether
or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get
more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Hi Gene
I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned off.
There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not.
You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want.
There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons.
They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not
an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes
used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set
to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when
NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection
were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers.
To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
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I agree, I think there should be NVDA remote bilt in to NVDA Mark. Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://listen.tafn.org.uk:8027/stream
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand or to find out more ways of listening go to http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
From: Gene New ZealandSent: 18 December 2017 00:25 To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] competition Hi Gene I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned off. There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not. You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want. There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons. They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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If many add ons are automatically downloaded with the screen reader, won’t that make the screan reader take up more room on the computer, leave a larger foot print, and just make the screen reader itself more complicated to use? The great thing about NVDA that I like, is that you can have a very small, snappy, even portable program, and you can add just the add ons that you need. The fact that NVDA does not have a ton of features built in, makes it so easy to install, run, and you don’t need a ton of memory and space like you need with JAWS, for example. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Gene New ZealandSent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:25 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] competition Hi Gene I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned off. There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not. You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want. There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons. They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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That is an arbitrary distinction.
Do you
want JAWS to drop all nonessential scripts? I don't think many people
would support dropping Winamp support in JAWS. In NVDA, what difference
does it make if this support is achieved by an add-on, a script, or in some
other way. When do you define a script as a core function. the
distinction that no add ons should be shipped and running because they are not
core functions is arbitrary. and, to be consistent, why is the links list
a core function? I consider the links list to be a harmful feature for
inexperienced users because it sounds wonderful to an inexperienced user but, if
used before a thorough understanding of navigation is achieved, hinders learning
by encouraging people to work in a completely artificial environment. I'm
not trying to start an argument about the links list. I'm pointing out
that the core function ideology isn't consistently followed even now, though it
mostly is.
its time to seriously consider the question, why
must there be a distinction between add ons and the core of NVDA? Why
shouldn't some add ons be a part of NVDA. Wouldn't developer resources be
better spent doing other things than duplicating functions available as add ons
so they may be placed in the core? Just include the add ons as part of the
product.
Gene
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to
run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function
that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers
to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is
implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature
and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether
NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And
an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it
comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because
Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is
no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number
of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were
available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set
to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader
they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there
are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that
are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on
would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will
never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If
this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA
as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use,
the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on
could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and
if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or
not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know
that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any
add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the
implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I
don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on
in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you
aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the
large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and
install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just
to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install
those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of
us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes
escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to
run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function
that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether
this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a
proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put
into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what
Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it
serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to
do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number
of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they
were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and
were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into
NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is
run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add
on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will
never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If
this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in
NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable
use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an
add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order
to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who
can't afford to
pay for a screen
reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
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I think we fail to remember how fortunate many of us are with
decent internet connections in developed countries.
The top NVDA downloads come from India, with a growth of 8000
users just in the last quarter.
For many internet users, every megabyte makes a difference.
On 18/12/2017 10:50 am, Mark wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I agree,
I think there should be NVDA remote bilt in
to NVDA
Mark.
Tune in to the number one station on the
web TAFN radio
http://listen.tafn.org.uk:8027/stream
Or for our catch up service on demand
http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand or to find out more ways of
listening go to http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Hi Gene
I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i
wouldive turned off.
There was stuff or what ever they were called were
downloaded to the screen reader weather i wanted them or not.
You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones
you want.
There are people on this list with none some and quite a few
add ons.
They should not be forced to get them but they need to be
aware of them just in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every
popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I
don't have much opinion about whether this feature is
implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader
feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA
should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because
Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well,
is logical and there is no reason of any substance not
to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a
number of functions by having a number of what it
pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but
they were available to users as add ons and were shipped
with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they
use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and
are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major
objection against making a feature an add on would be
done away with. the objection is that a lot of people
will never know about add ons and never use whatever is
being discussed. If this objection were done away with
by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running
add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about
whether something should be an add on could be done away
with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent:
Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject:
[nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade
function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to
get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who
can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Check out my website for NVDA
tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are
near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the
NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find
out which locations (or location) is near to you please
visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA
certified expert near you, please visit the following
link https://certification.nvaccess.org/.
The certification page contains the official list of
NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who
have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.
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Why not take the lead from modern browsers like FireFox and Chrome when considering what’s an add-on and what’s an integrated part of the program itself? Think of it as NVDAZilla… Incorperate what may be considered essential functions or would at the very least be highly useful towards the user experience and leave everything else for folks to tailor as they see fit? Sure that may still be left open to interpretation, but could at least be considered as a base to work off from. Take FireFoxes reader view or whatever it’s called. In Chrome, you can install various extensions to strip down a website for easier reading, whereas in FireFox, this feature was finally built into the browser itself starting in the versions 40s. It’s as easy as doing an alt+control+r to toggle on and off. I for the most part hardly use the Jaws Flexible Web feature anymore when doing general browsing since I find this to be a faster means of getting in and out of a site if I’m just passing through instead of maybe a page or domain I would be going back to over and over again. Having a reader mode or pagination command in NVDA I think would be useful by pretty much anyone. Not to say there couldn’t be add-ons built separately, but something like that… would essentially enhance the user experience.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition That is an arbitrary distinction.
Do you want JAWS to drop all nonessential scripts? I don't think many people would support dropping Winamp support in JAWS. In NVDA, what difference does it make if this support is achieved by an add-on, a script, or in some other way. When do you define a script as a core function. the distinction that no add ons should be shipped and running because they are not core functions is arbitrary. and, to be consistent, why is the links list a core function? I consider the links list to be a harmful feature for inexperienced users because it sounds wonderful to an inexperienced user but, if used before a thorough understanding of navigation is achieved, hinders learning by encouraging people to work in a completely artificial environment. I'm not trying to start an argument about the links list. I'm pointing out that the core function ideology isn't consistently followed even now, though it mostly is. its time to seriously consider the question, why must there be a distinction between add ons and the core of NVDA? Why shouldn't some add ons be a part of NVDA. Wouldn't developer resources be better spent doing other things than duplicating functions available as add ons so they may be placed in the core? Just include the add ons as part of the product. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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Most of the extra space in JAWS is taken up by the
OCR feature. And JAWS doesn't take a lot of memory, which anyone
interested can check when JAWS is running. I'm not talking about when it
is used with something like the putatively natural sounding voices. I'm
talking about when JAWS is used with Eloquence.
As for making NVDA larger, it often takes years for
a feature that is available as an add on to be incorporated into NVDA. I
see no benefit to users to simply not including an add on, once it is determined
that the functunality should be a part of NVDA itself. Someone else asked
if making add ons a part of NVDA would make it more difficult to operate.
Why should it? If you just don't use whatever commands the add on uses,
why shouldNVDA be any different to use than now?
Gene
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
If many add ons are automatically downloaded with the screen
reader, won’t that make the screan reader take up more room on the computer,
leave a larger foot print, and just make the screen reader itself more
complicated to use?
The great thing about NVDA that I like, is that you can have
a very small, snappy, even portable program, and you can add just the add ons
that you need. The fact that NVDA does not have a ton of features built in,
makes it so easy to install, run, and you don’t need a ton of memory and space
like you need with JAWS, for example.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows
10
Hi Gene
I when i gave windows eyes a test drive was a feature i wouldive turned
off.
There was stuff or what ever they were called were downloaded to the
screen reader weather i wanted them or not.
You should not be forced to get them and pick only the ones you want.
There are people on this list with none some and quite a few add ons.
They should not be forced to get them but they need to be aware of them just
in case they need that extra functionality.
Gene nz
On 12/18/2017 1:07 PM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have to
adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't
have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly
or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development
time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on
wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add
ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does
it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any
substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to
accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously
called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add
ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never
learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add
ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and
are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done,
the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away
with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add
ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were
done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons
at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question
and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away
with.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it comes to the new screen
shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function
the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other
screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen
reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen
reader.
--
Check out my
website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites
you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find
out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/.
The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.
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Sorry, Gene, but I do not agree with you...
1 - As other member said, remember that the two major "markets"
are India and Brazil.
In those two countries, specially India, but also some parts of
Brazil, every Mb of downloads count...
2 - Several NVDA actual core functions have started as addons,
and since their utility the NVDA team included it in the core...
So, not a duplicate of efforts, but more as a field test of the
utility of that function...
3 - Every NVDA local or/and language community should maintain a
database of the major addosns available to use.
Rui
Às 01:15 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there
are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any
add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand
the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really
matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about
including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add
ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind
people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will
never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of
spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make
it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the
ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should
be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary
AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui
Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with
NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start
being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by
an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should
do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does
it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there
is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they
were really scripts, but they were available to users as add
ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at
the time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that
should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are
downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never
use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were
done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to
get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Yes, great point! We must remember that many people do not have a fast Internet speed. The size of a download matters a lot. We are downloading all of our programs now. David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Rui FontesSent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:29 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] competition Sorry, Gene, but I do not agree with you... 1 - As other member said, remember that the two major "markets" are India and Brazil. In those two countries, specially India, but also some parts of Brazil, every Mb of downloads count... 2 - Several NVDA actual core functions have started as addons, and since their utility the NVDA team included it in the core... So, not a duplicate of efforts, but more as a field test of the utility of that function... 3 - Every NVDA local or/and language community should maintain a database of the major addosns available to use. Rui Às 01:15 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Brian's Mail list account
Not entirely the thing. I think that the screenreaders try to add things that are genuinely useful, no matter what their cost is. That has little to do with a feature.
In my humble oppinion this function should be a part of windows itself, inedeed why windows cannot have a proper turn my screen off command I will never know. If you are using your machine to listen to audio do you really want the screen on all the time?
Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" <lmddh50@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 10:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA should also have the same function the main question is whether or not NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to pay for a screen reader.
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Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
Hi, Maybe nvaccess could come up with something like the windoweyes store that would run inside of nvda. If that was the case more people would know about the addons and be able to use the addons. The problem is right now you can download addons from any ware and install them which could still be the case with this implementation. Their could be a checkbox to allow apps or addons from unknown sources. By having the store it would make it easier for people and also allow people to use addons that have been approved by nvaccess even at work.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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erik burggraaf <erik@...>
It sounds as though people have
a misunderstanding of how windows screen readers work. The other guy
relies very heavily on it's own add-ons, called scripts. The
difference is that the other guy comes with many more customizations
pre-installed. Of course, you pay for them all, whether you use them
or not. Thanks to all the jaws-wielding seniors who paid for visual
studio and microsoft sharepoint support. Enjoy.
Add-ons, scripts, apps,
extentions, and let's face it, windows screen readers in premis are old
paradigm. The fact that we're still forced to use them, whether by
manual instalation or base configuration, is against good modern
design. The real answer of course is for software designers to comply
with accessibility standards and conduct proper quality control Until
that happens, hard coding screen readers through proprietary measures are
the only recourse.
The add-on store isn't a bad
idea. Base-installing more add-ons might also be convenient, although
that has it's own set of problems. Meanwhile, we have to be
advocating modern new paradigm design against the looming day when third
party screen readers are a thing of the past.
Best,
Erik
On
December 18, 2017 12:40:12 PM "Mike and Jenna"
<schwaltze@...> wrote:
I
have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use
NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also
have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I
work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws
have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with
addons. From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install
them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for
experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be
offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not
talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that
some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind
people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never
use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending
time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core
NVDA code, just include the add on.
----- Original
Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition What I've liked and am liking
of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs,
thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the
necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017
a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of
the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being
addons and start being part of NVDA
core... Addon, by definition, is a
piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of
the NVDA
core... Regards, Rui
Fontes Às 00:07 de
18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA
doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to
compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is
implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral
feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper
question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into
this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what
Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it
serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not
to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really
scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with
Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many
users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when
NVDA is run. If this
were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be
done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know
about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this
objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use,
the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on
could be done away with. -----
Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16
PM Subject: [nvda]
competition When it comes to the new screen shade function
in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main
question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen
readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader
for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen
reader.
--
Gera Enviado desde
Thunderbird
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The thing is, as more users would comment on an addon and would create new issues on github to tell developers what they should improve, as more probable it will be that those functions will be taken into the core of NVDA. It depends on how many people are going to benefit from that function. So, the advantage of having addons is that there is a very good opportunity for users to give feedback and it gives flexibility for developers to implement that feedback faster. If you would have a screen reader which has every function implemented, you would have to wait until next release to see improvements. In my view, jaws has lots of functions which have not been improved since years. But it implements lots of new features and lets the old ones unchanged. As of now, jaws does not work with firefox nor with edge as good as NVDA does. Instead of bringing such features which will be used by a small part of users FS could concentrate on how to improve user experience for example through more intuitive keystrokes, simpler menue structure, better productivity features and so on. My perception is that FS is implementing every thing they have in one product (zoomtext, open book and jaws). So, Jaws is not only a screen reader but also a multi purpose application. If you are asking jme, this is a clear measure to reach more users and to increase the range of relevant customers.. And finally, it is the wrong way to make a market out of a screen reader. A screen reader has a very big social impact on people who have the same right to get access to information as sighted people. In my view a screen reader should be a social movement and not a product which investors hope to gain capital from. So, the best way would be the screen readers to come together and build a powerful software, together with mainstream software developers. There are a lot of possibilities to get donations and sponsors for such a project and lots of jobs could be created without having to let the users pay so much money for a software. There is no plausible reason why a company would be forced to gain capital from such a product. Best Adriani Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von erik burggraaf
Gesendet: Montag, 18. Dezember 2017 20:50
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] competition It sounds as though people have a misunderstanding of how windows screen readers work. The other guy relies very heavily on it's own add-ons, called scripts. The difference is that the other guy comes with many more customizations pre-installed. Of course, you pay for them all, whether you use them or not. Thanks to all the jaws-wielding seniors who paid for visual studio and microsoft sharepoint support. Enjoy. Add-ons, scripts, apps, extentions, and let's face it, windows screen readers in premis are old paradigm. The fact that we're still forced to use them, whether by manual instalation or base configuration, is against good modern design. The real answer of course is for software designers to comply with accessibility standards and conduct proper quality control Until that happens, hard coding screen readers through proprietary measures are the only recourse. The add-on store isn't a bad idea. Base-installing more add-ons might also be convenient, although that has it's own set of problems. Meanwhile, we have to be advocating modern new paradigm design against the looming day when third party screen readers are a thing of the past. Best, Erik
On December 18, 2017 12:40:12 PM "Mike and Jenna" <schwaltze@...> wrote:I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons. A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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