Topics

Extra verbosity in Thunderbird


Robert Logue
 

Yes Gene. I did try turning report dynamic content changes off but it did not help.


Bob

On 2020-09-01 11:41 a.m., Gene wrote:
The only thing I can think of that might possibly work is to turn report dynamic content changes off, though I'm just about sure it won't help to turn it off.  But you can try.  The toggle is NVDA key 5 on the main keyboard.

Of course, you could downgrade to a version of the program that doesn't have the problem.  You could get the portable version so you could leave your current installation undisturbed and update it to see if the problem is solved while continuing to use the portable version.  I suspect that this may be an Aria live region but I am not aware that NVDA has a setting to turn reading of live regions off.  It should.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Logue
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

I tried turning off everything I could find that might stop the extra
speech in both Thunderbird and NVDA settings.  I unchecked just about
everything I thought was relevant including status bar.


I tried using screen review mode to find the notification style text
being spoken. No luck there.


What other tools does NVDA have to control this kind of verbosity in
programs?


Bob



On 2020-08-31 1:07 p.m., Hope Williamson wrote:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.






Hope Williamson
 

I did find that. For me it was under the toolbar submenu. I tried to uncheck it and couldn't while I was inside the message window. It's already unchecked while I'm outside the message window.


Hope Williamson
 

I'm also on 68.12.0. I won't update to 78 until it automatically puts me
there.


Gene
 

In the view menu, is a submenu called Status Bars.  Press enter on it and look through the items.  You will find what you are looking for.


Gene

On 9/1/2020 2:51 PM, Hope Williamson wrote:
For some reason I can't remember how to turn off status bars, nor do I
know where to go to turn them off in the message window. Can someone
explain? Thanks!!


Hope Williamson
 

For some reason I can't remember how to turn off status bars, nor do I
know where to go to turn them off in the message window. Can someone
explain? Thanks!!


Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

There is no automatic update from 68 to 78 for thunderbird. That will be released in a few weeks. With other words there is currently no update process from 68 to 78 with keeping the 68 configuration.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Dienstag, 1. September 2020 19:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

 

Well, then the folks at Tbird have the most bizarre release channel I've ever dealt with.  I've been on release channel for years, with automatic updating, and if I go to the Help, About dialog (ALT+H,A), I watch the check being done and am told that Thunderbird is up to date.  I am on 68.12.0 32-bit.

That's one heck of a primary version jump, from 68 to 78, so I can't explain it if it's not the beta channel, unless we're talking 64-bit, which the folks at Tbird used to recommend you not use, I believe.  It gets confusing when you've had something on a given machine for a long period of time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

For awhile, version 78.x was available on the web site but that version wasn't distributed through the updater. I don't know why it was offered on the nonbeta part of the web site but not to the downloader. I even saw something somewhere on the mozilla site saying that that was the case so it wasn't an oversight. I don't know what the updater is offering now.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird



Hello Brian,

Actually, the stable version 78 of Thunderbird has been released for a while now. I'm using it and in its "About" box it states that I'm on the "release" channel. I've updated it manually from v68 to v78 though. If I'm not mistaking, the automatic update will offer v78 when v78.2 is released, which happened recently. But I haven't heard from my friends that use Thunderbird that their version has updated to v78. That doesn't mean that it hasn't - it only means that they haven't told me yet if it did or not. Furthermore, when I now went to Thunderbird's website and clicked on the download link, the version offered there was 78.2.1. So, Thunderbird 78 stable has definitely been released to the public.


______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 1.9.2020 г. в 19:41, Brian Vogel написа:
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 06:40 PM, Governor staten wrote:
I'm running Thunderbird 78.2.0, and have same issues.-
And if this version number is correct, then you're not on the release update channel, which is at 68.12.0, but the beta channel, which can have a raft of issues that the release channel does not, or have fixed issues that the release channel still has.

One can determine what channel they're on using ALT+H,A to bring up the About Thunderbird dialog. Right after the part where your version number is shown, and the status message regarding whether you're at the most recent update or have one pending, is a line that reads, "You are on the release update channel," where release will be "beta" instead if you're using the beta channel.

This issue had definitely been resolved, at one point, and there is a topic on here that I'm sure will contain the keywords "Thunderbird verbosity" besides this one that cover the back and forth or resolve it. I filed issues on this one, and it isn't truly ancient history, at least not yet.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Gene
 

Good. then you don't have to experiment with my idea, which I was very skeptical would work.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Logue
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird



Hi Kostadin. Thanks for the info about status bars in different areas of Thunderbird. I just turned it off in the message reading window. This fixed my verbosity problem.




I have not reported to Mozilla so far.




Bob









On 2020-08-31 1:26 p.m., Kostadin Kolev wrote:


Hello all,

I also have the status bar of Thunderbird showing in the program's main window and I don't observe the described behavior. But I'm reading messages from the main window of Thunderbird (via the message list and the message pane). Most screen reader users seam to read messages in a separate window. And we come to the main thing here - the option to show/hide the status bar in Thunderbird is independent for the separate Thunderbird windows like the main window, the optional separate window for message reading, the message composer window, etc. So, if you've disabled the status bar from within Thunderbird's main window, it will not affect its behavior for the message reading window and it will probably still be visible in it. And if you're reading messages from within that message reading window, this may be why you still hear those messages - the status bar is still shown for the message reading window.

Mind you, this automatic speaking of status bar messages should not be happening even with the status bar shown It was fixed for the main window of Thunderbird, but not for the other windows like the ones for message reading and for composing a message. This should be reported to and fixed by the Thunderbird developers. Has anyone done that? If not, I may do it these days. The only place that I find this automatic speaking of status bar messages useful is in the a"Advanced Search" window, where thanks to those messages I know the status of the performed search, without needing to manually read the status bar.


______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 31.8.2020 г. в 22:07, Hope Williamson написа:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.


Gene
 

The only thing I can think of that might possibly work is to turn report dynamic content changes off, though I'm just about sure it won't help to turn it off. But you can try. The toggle is NVDA key 5 on the main keyboard.

Of course, you could downgrade to a version of the program that doesn't have the problem. You could get the portable version so you could leave your current installation undisturbed and update it to see if the problem is solved while continuing to use the portable version. I suspect that this may be an Aria live region but I am not aware that NVDA has a setting to turn reading of live regions off. It should.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Logue
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 11:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Extra verbosity in Thunderbird

I tried turning off everything I could find that might stop the extra
speech in both Thunderbird and NVDA settings. I unchecked just about
everything I thought was relevant including status bar.


I tried using screen review mode to find the notification style text
being spoken. No luck there.


What other tools does NVDA have to control this kind of verbosity in
programs?


Bob



On 2020-08-31 1:07 p.m., Hope Williamson wrote:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.



 

I'm going to force an update to Version 78 in a few moments after the download completes.  As you say, when you go to the Thunderbird Download Page, it's downloading the installer for 78.2.1.

I will admit to being utterly incorrect about the latest version number, but have never experienced a "failure to update" like this in the past.  Tbird has always nagged me when I fire it up when newer versions are available.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Well, then the folks at Tbird have the most bizarre release channel I've ever dealt with.  I've been on release channel for years, with automatic updating, and if I go to the Help, About dialog (ALT+H,A), I watch the check being done and am told that Thunderbird is up to date.  I am on 68.12.0 32-bit.

That's one heck of a primary version jump, from 68 to 78, so I can't explain it if it's not the beta channel, unless we're talking 64-bit, which the folks at Tbird used to recommend you not use, I believe.  It gets confusing when you've had something on a given machine for a long period of time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Hello Brian,

Actually, the stable version 78 of Thunderbird has been released for a while now. I'm using it and in its "About" box it states that I'm on the "release" channel. I've updated it manually from v68 to v78 though. If I'm not mistaking, the automatic update will offer v78 when v78.2 is released, which happened recently. But I haven't heard from my friends that use Thunderbird that their version has updated to v78. That doesn't mean that it hasn't - it only means that they haven't told me yet if it did or not. Furthermore, when I now went to Thunderbird's website and clicked on the download link, the version offered there was 78.2.1. So, Thunderbird 78 stable has definitely been released to the public.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 1.9.2020 г. в 19:41, Brian Vogel написа:

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 06:40 PM, Governor staten wrote:
I'm running Thunderbird 78.2.0, and have same issues.
-
And if this version number is correct, then you're not on the release update channel, which is at 68.12.0, but the beta channel, which can have a raft of issues that the release channel does not, or have fixed issues that the release channel still has.

One can determine what channel they're on using ALT+H,A to bring up the About Thunderbird dialog.  Right after the part where your version number is shown, and the status message regarding whether you're at the most recent update or have one pending, is a line that reads, "You are on the release update channel," where release will be "beta" instead if you're using the beta channel.

This issue had definitely been resolved, at one point, and there is a topic on here that I'm sure will contain the keywords "Thunderbird verbosity" besides this one that cover the back and forth or resolve it.  I filed issues on this one, and it isn't truly ancient history, at least not yet.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 06:40 PM, Governor staten wrote:
I'm running Thunderbird 78.2.0, and have same issues.
-
And if this version number is correct, then you're not on the release update channel, which is at 68.12.0, but the beta channel, which can have a raft of issues that the release channel does not, or have fixed issues that the release channel still has.

One can determine what channel they're on using ALT+H,A to bring up the About Thunderbird dialog.  Right after the part where your version number is shown, and the status message regarding whether you're at the most recent update or have one pending, is a line that reads, "You are on the release update channel," where release will be "beta" instead if you're using the beta channel.

This issue had definitely been resolved, at one point, and there is a topic on here that I'm sure will contain the keywords "Thunderbird verbosity" besides this one that cover the back and forth or resolve it.  I filed issues on this one, and it isn't truly ancient history, at least not yet.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Robert Logue
 

Hi Kostadin. Thanks for the info about status bars in different areas of Thunderbird.  I just turned it off in the message reading window.  This fixed my verbosity problem.


I have not reported to Mozilla so far.


Bob




On 2020-08-31 1:26 p.m., Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Hello all,

I also have the status bar of Thunderbird showing in the program's main window and I don't observe the described behavior. But I'm reading messages from the main window of Thunderbird (via the message list and the message pane). Most screen reader users seam to read messages in a separate window. And we come to the main thing here - the option to show/hide the status bar in Thunderbird is independent for the separate Thunderbird windows like the main window, the optional separate window for message reading, the message composer window, etc. So, if you've disabled the status bar from within Thunderbird's main window, it will not affect its behavior for the message reading window and it will probably still be visible in it. And if you're reading messages from within that message reading window, this may be why you still hear those messages - the status bar is still shown for the message reading window.

Mind you, this automatic speaking of status bar messages should not be happening even with the status bar shown It was fixed for the main window of Thunderbird, but not for the other windows like the ones for message reading and for composing a message. This should be reported to and fixed by the Thunderbird developers. Has anyone done that? If not, I may do it these days. The only place that I find this automatic speaking of status bar messages useful is in the a"Advanced Search" window, where thanks to those messages I know the status of the performed search, without needing to manually read the status bar.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 31.8.2020 г. в 22:07, Hope Williamson написа:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.




Robert Logue
 

I tried turning off everything I could find that might stop the extra speech in both Thunderbird and NVDA settings.  I unchecked just about everything I thought was relevant including status bar.


I tried using screen review mode to find the notification style text being spoken. No luck there.


What other tools does NVDA have to control this kind of verbosity in programs?


Bob

On 2020-08-31 1:07 p.m., Hope Williamson wrote:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.


Hope Williamson
 

It says 68.12.0. Although that's strange because it just updated a few
days ago.


 

I'm running Thunderbird 78.2.0, and have same issues. I recall that this was supposed to be fixed.





On 8/31/2020 2:49 PM, Robert Logue wrote:

I'm reading messages in TB but am now getting extra verbiage such as notifications about what TB is doing while NVDA is automatically reading the new message.


Reads something like this:

I bolded the extra verbage.

Moved 9 messages from NVDA to Trash
Loading Message…
Re: [nvda] Why isn’t there a browse mode for windows desktop apps?
Hi,
  Apart from recent apps, traditional desktop apps are not really web documents nor exposes elements   in a way that is suitable for browse mode navigation.
bobcat11@...: Moving message to Trash…
Therefore there is no need for a dedicated   browse mode functionality....



David Goldfield
 

Which version of Thunderbird are you using?


David Goldfield,
Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

www.davidgoldfield.org
On 8/31/2020 2:49 PM, Robert Logue wrote:

I'm reading messages in TB but am now getting extra verbiage such as notifications about what TB is doing while NVDA is automatically reading the new message.


Reads something like this:

I bolded the extra verbage.

Moved 9 messages from NVDA to Trash
Loading Message…
Re: [nvda] Why isn’t there a browse mode for windows desktop apps?
Hi,
  Apart from recent apps, traditional desktop apps are not really web documents nor exposes elements   in a way that is suitable for browse mode navigation.
bobcat11@...: Moving message to Trash…
Therefore there is no need for a dedicated   browse mode functionality....



David Goldfield
 

Hope,

Are you using Thunderbird V78? Forgive me if you've mentioned this in a previous message that I may not have read. I thought this issue was fixed for that version.

David Goldfield,
Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

www.davidgoldfield.org

On 8/31/2020 3:07 PM, Hope Williamson wrote:
Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.


 

Hello all,

I also have the status bar of Thunderbird showing in the program's main window and I don't observe the described behavior. But I'm reading messages from the main window of Thunderbird (via the message list and the message pane). Most screen reader users seam to read messages in a separate window. And we come to the main thing here - the option to show/hide the status bar in Thunderbird is independent for the separate Thunderbird windows like the main window, the optional separate window for message reading, the message composer window, etc. So, if you've disabled the status bar from within Thunderbird's main window, it will not affect its behavior for the message reading window and it will probably still be visible in it. And if you're reading messages from within that message reading window, this may be why you still hear those messages - the status bar is still shown for the message reading window.

Mind you, this automatic speaking of status bar messages should not be happening even with the status bar shown It was fixed for the main window of Thunderbird, but not for the other windows like the ones for message reading and for composing a message. This should be reported to and fixed by the Thunderbird developers. Has anyone done that? If not, I may do it these days. The only place that I find this automatic speaking of status bar messages useful is in the a"Advanced Search" window, where thanks to those messages I know the status of the performed search, without needing to manually read the status bar.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 31.8.2020 г. в 22:07, Hope Williamson написа:

Yeah I have the same issue. It's pretty annoying. Especially when it
keeps saying downloading however many messages. I tried turning off the
status bar thing, and it still does it.