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Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line


Gene
 

I said that I didn't know what the case is with apps. I don't know if accessibility is defined differently, but Thunderbird is an application, not an app.

I tried to find what the current definition of accessibility is in terms of blind people to see if their is now a distinction between applications and apps but I didn't find anything. I'm not saying you are wrong in terms of apps. I don't know. I am saying that in terms of applications, I am using the standard definition.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 2:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Gene,

I'll agree with the "using simulated mouse" part, but not object navigation part. It makes no sense to separate that out from "accessible" it's just another way the keyboard is used in the current Windows ecosystem to get to things. And it's probably going to become far more common, not less, and one will look quite foolish if you insist on calling things accessed by object navigation "inaccessible."

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


 

Gene,
 
           I'll agree with the "using simulated mouse" part, but not object navigation part.   It makes no sense to separate that out from "accessible" it's just another way the keyboard is used in the current Windows ecosystem to get to things.  And it's probably going to become far more common, not less, and one will look quite foolish if you insist on calling things accessed by object navigation "inaccessible."

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

I am using the numpad for object navigation. But the general definition of accessible is directly accessible through keyboard commands such as working in dialogs or menus or using short cut commands. Using the simulated mouse or object navigation are, of course, done using screen-reader commands but because you are using the keyboard doesn't mean the program is accessible. when using those techniques. I don't know about apps as opposed to applications, but in an application, if commands are not directly accessible from the keyboard, they are not considered accessible as the word is usually used.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 2:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

If you're not using the keyboard, of which the number pad is a part, for object navigation then I don't know what you are using.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


 

If you're not using the keyboard, of which the number pad is a part, for object navigation then I don't know what you are using.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

That isn't the definition of accessible. It is useable but accessible, in its general use means accessible from the keyboard.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 12:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Gene wrote:
I know no other way than to use object navigation to move to and activate a button that brings up an accessible menu. And since object navigation is an accepted, if underused, part of screen readers (JAWS calls it the touch cursor if memory serves, but I may be wrong) that means it's accessible.

Even I am guilty of not using object navigation as frequently as I should when I find something isn't accessible via straight "tab traversal" or other shortcut methods. But if it's accessible via object navigation and can be interacted with, it's accessible. It's right back to both "tool to task" and adding new techniques to one's standard arsenal.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


 

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Gene wrote:
I know no other way than to use object navigation to move to and activate a button that brings up an accessible menu. 
And since object navigation is an accepted, if underused, part of screen readers (JAWS calls it the touch cursor if memory serves, but I may be wrong) that means it's accessible.

Even I am guilty of not using object navigation as frequently as I should when I find something isn't accessible via straight "tab traversal" or other shortcut methods.  But if it's accessible via object navigation and can be interacted with, it's accessible.  It's right back to both "tool to task" and adding new techniques to one's standard arsenal.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

As far as I know, the way you get to the place to do that is not accessible.  I know no other way than to use object navigation to move to and activate a button that brings up an accessible menu.  The actual menu is fully accessible.  It may be that there is an accessible way to bring up the menu that those who use the program regularly know.  I found nothing in my looking around the program.


Gene

On 9/6/2020 11:43 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Gene,

            Indeed it does not deal with changing the columns displayed because the function to do that is entirely accessible as it is.  The point is it makes it much easier to determine what the actual problematic column is without having to jump through all sorts of gyrations to do so.  Getting rid of it is a matter of bringing up the Thunderbird column selection dialog and unchecking it.  The add-on lets you do the necessary legwork to determine what needs to be moved/removed with far greater ease, which is my point.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Gene,

            Indeed it does not deal with changing the columns displayed because the function to do that is entirely accessible as it is.  The point is it makes it much easier to determine what the actual problematic column is without having to jump through all sorts of gyrations to do so.  Getting rid of it is a matter of bringing up the Thunderbird column selection dialog and unchecking it.  The add-on lets you do the necessary legwork to determine what needs to be moved/removed with far greater ease, which is my point.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Hello all,

I think the "0" value is for the SPAM. By default Thunderbird displays a column which indicates if a message is SPAM or not. I don't know how this is presented graphically, but for screen readers it is probably presented with a binary value ("0" when it is not SPAM and "1" if it is SPAM).

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 6.9.2020 г. в 19:34, Gene написа:

The add-on makes changing the order of already displayed columns easier. But the add-on doesn't allow you to change the columns that are displayed, or not displayed.  From everything I've read in the add-on help, it allows you to change the order in which the columns are displayed but it doesn't have a feature that allows you to change what columns are displayed or not, just the order of display.

I'm not sure what is causing the current problem, but changing the order of display may work around it.  For example, if the column being displayed shows a 0 and appears as the first column, changing the order to last would move it out of the way.  That is another possible way to solve the problem.

It might be easier than the way I suggested.  If the problem is the first column, you can move it down to the last, at which time the add-on tells you you can't move it further.  and the order of the columns in the list is the order in which they appear on screen.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 11:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

If you're an NVDA user and a Thunderbird user who wants to deal with checking what columns are displayed and/or moving and/or removing same, installing the Mozilla Apps Enhancements Add-On and using its features to do so makes life much, much easier.  See specifically the NVDA+H command at the very end of the page along with the CTRL+NVDA+1-9 command right above that.


Gene
 

The add-on makes changing the order of already displayed columns easier. But the add-on doesn't allow you to change the columns that are displayed, or not displayed. From everything I've read in the add-on help, it allows you to change the order in which the columns are displayed but it doesn't have a feature that allows you to change what columns are displayed or not, just the order of display.

I'm not sure what is causing the current problem, but changing the order of display may work around it. For example, if the column being displayed shows a 0 and appears as the first column, changing the order to last would move it out of the way. That is another possible way to solve the problem.

It might be easier than the way I suggested. If the problem is the first column, you can move it down to the last, at which time the add-on tells you you can't move it further. and the order of the columns in the list is the order in which they appear on screen.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 11:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

If you're an NVDA user and a Thunderbird user who wants to deal with checking what columns are displayed and/or moving and/or removing same, installing the Mozilla Apps Enhancements Add-On and using its features to do so makes life much, much easier. See specifically the NVDA+H command at the very end of the page along with the CTRL+NVDA+1-9 command right above that.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


 

If you're an NVDA user and a Thunderbird user who wants to deal with checking what columns are displayed and/or moving and/or removing same, installing the Mozilla Apps Enhancements Add-On and using its features to do so makes life much, much easier.  See specifically the NVDA+H command at the very end of the page along with the CTRL+NVDA+1-9 command right above that.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

This might or might not help, but a column may be being displayed in that folder that isn't in others. I am not aware of a column that would show 0 before all or most messages but while you are in that folder, you can try the following:
I am giving desktop commands. I don't use or know laptop commands:
Make sure you are in object navigation, NVDA key numpad one until you hear object navigation or no previous navigation modes.
Then use the command NVDA key numpad 4. You will be on a button that says show columns to display.
Actoivate it with the command nvda key numpad enter, which is the bottom long key at the right of the numpad.
A menu will open. You can down arrow through all sorts of items. You can experiment by unchecking one at a time, then closing the menu with escape and seeing what happens when you move through the message list.
You check or uncheck items by pressing enter on them. Unlike most menus in general, in this menu, checking or unchecking something doesn't cause the menu to close. You can go up or down it, checking or unchecking anything you like and you can check and then uncheck something if you change your mind by pressing enter on it again. For testing, I think you should uncheck one item at a time, then, if it doesn't solve the problem, open the menu again, check it again, then uncheck the next one down, etc.

You may want to wait for other information or suggestions since testing in this way might take some time and be somewhat tedious. If you have done any rearranging of the order of columns, don't press the restore column order. That sets columns back to their default order and you will have to rearrange them again.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Wolak
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2020 1:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Thunderbird announcing 0 in the message list before subject line

Hi all,

I'm running Windows10 2004, build 19041.450 as well as NVDA 2020.2 and
Thunderbird 78.2.1.

In one of my inboxes, Thunderbird is announcing 0 in the message list
before each message subject is read.

This started happening all of a sudden recently, although I have no idea
how.

This also doesn't happen in any other folders.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas on what could be causing this?

Thanks,


Daniel


Daniel Wolak
 
Edited

Hi all,

I'm running Windows10 2004, build 19041.450 as well as NVDA 2020.2 and Thunderbird 78.2.1.

In one of my inboxes, NVDA is announcing 0 in the message list before each message subject is read.

This started happening all of a sudden recently, although I have no idea how.

This also doesn't happen in any other folders.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas on what could be causing this?

Thanks,


Daniel