Topics

NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?


 

Well luke, the issue with a vm, especially a dos one is more physical than not.

1.  yes you can.

You would get as much responce out of dos as you would a basic linux terminal.

But here is the thing.

You don't have a physical serial port or a synth.

Assuming you had both of those, yes you could.

However unless you had something like a soundblaster card or something and its drivers you couldn't really handle sound.

Lets face it, modern pc speakers are utter crap.

There is no need  for a pc speaker if everything is via sound.

Sound cards may have speakers.

I know on some systems they only have emulated pc speakers within the sound chip.

There are systems I have used that don't have a pc speaker at all.

Most if not all systems may have one but you will never hear it unless its got an issue.

But in theory and if you had the right equipment you could.

But most don't have serial synths or the ports to run them so it won't work.


The closest would be some sort of os like linux that handled all this stuff.

On 14/09/2020 8:31 pm, Luke Davis wrote:
As Shaun Everiss pointed out, you could try DOSEmu for this.
I would probably spin up an EC2 instance, or something at one of the cheap Linode alternatives, install DOSEmu, and see what you could make work.

It's been 10-15 years since I used DOSEmu, but when I did I remember it being pretty good.

The other option I considered for this, would be to install a DOS based virtual machine in Virtualbox or something.  I don't know for sure if you can do that, but it might be possible to run a 16 bit OS there.
There were remote access protocols for DOS, that would allow you to use it over a serial port. You could probably use it with a terminal emulator over a virtual comm port.

I'm not sure how responsive NVDA might be in that scenario, but I'll be interested in your results for historical reasons.

I recently had occasion to try to run SSHDOS (SSH for DOS) under Win 10 to support a customer who still uses DOS and SSH, but I could not for the same reasons discussed earlier here.

Luke

Luke  Robinett wrote:

Hi Joseph. Right. The DOS box consul is not a text based Consol. It supports DOS applications that run in both text and graphics modes so when it displays
text, it’s actually displaying a graphical representation of text. this is why in my first post I was wondering if an NVDA add-on could be created in python
that would work something like the following:
1. Monitor the dos box Consol for any changes
2. Anytime a change is detected, apply OCR to convert the consul output to text
3. Compare this OCR snapshot to the previous and announce to NVDA whatever changed, such as the display scrolling, a value on the screen changing, etc.
I am brushing up on my python as we speak and I have identified some library’s that deal with taking a screen capture of the active application as well as
OCR. I’m not sure if this exceeds the limitations of what NVDA add-ons are capable of but I figure it’s worth a shot. Plus, it gives me a good project to
learn python, if nothing else.


Luke Davis
 

As Shaun Everiss pointed out, you could try DOSEmu for this.
I would probably spin up an EC2 instance, or something at one of the cheap Linode alternatives, install DOSEmu, and see what you could make work.

It's been 10-15 years since I used DOSEmu, but when I did I remember it being pretty good.

The other option I considered for this, would be to install a DOS based virtual machine in Virtualbox or something. I don't know for sure if you can do that, but it might be possible to run a 16 bit OS there.
There were remote access protocols for DOS, that would allow you to use it over a serial port. You could probably use it with a terminal emulator over a virtual comm port.

I'm not sure how responsive NVDA might be in that scenario, but I'll be interested in your results for historical reasons.

I recently had occasion to try to run SSHDOS (SSH for DOS) under Win 10 to support a customer who still uses DOS and SSH, but I could not for the same reasons discussed earlier here.

Luke

Luke Robinett wrote:

Hi Joseph. Right. The DOS box consul is not a text based Consol. It supports DOS applications that run in both text and graphics modes so when it displays
text, it’s actually displaying a graphical representation of text. this is why in my first post I was wondering if an NVDA add-on could be created in python
that would work something like the following:
1. Monitor the dos box Consol for any changes
2. Anytime a change is detected, apply OCR to convert the consul output to text
3. Compare this OCR snapshot to the previous and announce to NVDA whatever changed, such as the display scrolling, a value on the screen changing, etc.
I am brushing up on my python as we speak and I have identified some library’s that deal with taking a screen capture of the active application as well as
OCR. I’m not sure if this exceeds the limitations of what NVDA add-ons are capable of but I figure it’s worth a shot. Plus, it gives me a good project to
learn python, if nothing else.


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Josh,

That Talking DOS Box package sounds great, but did you get it working at all? I got the software installed with the Com emulator for com 0 and I even got speech. But whenever I tried running the games, the system hung.


On 9/13/2020 3:14 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
the best screen reader to use with talking dosbox is ASAP, with NVDA set up as a braille n speak synthesizer, after you set up com0com. all directions are on the batsupport talking dosbox website. Microtalk's ASAP that comes with the talking dosbox win3.1 keynote keysoft.zip will give you the best screen reader experience. Also in the talking dosbox win3.1 keynote keysoft.zip file are all the dos Jim Kitchen's games and a lot of other games, and a demo of mega-dots braille translator, wordperfect 5.1, lotus1-2-3 for dos, and much more. and you also get windows 3.1 with a window-eyes demo, keysoft and keynote gold demo, and text assist which sounds exactly like the old decTalk tts. oh and speaking of decTalk, fonix INC never emails me back about using decTalk as an NVDA addon. so it seems like they just don't care. so this is just me, but personally I am going to use the python3 decTalk addon just for my own personal use sometimes. But I still really like the codeFactory eloquence and vocalizer addon, and the codeFactory sapi5 text to speech that I bought, eloquence and vocalizer. 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Josh Kennedy
 

the best screen reader to use with talking dosbox is ASAP, with NVDA set up as a braille n speak synthesizer, after you set up com0com. all directions are on the batsupport talking dosbox website. Microtalk's ASAP that comes with the talking dosbox win3.1 keynote keysoft.zip will give you the best screen reader experience. Also in the talking dosbox win3.1 keynote keysoft.zip file are all the dos Jim Kitchen's games and a lot of other games, and a demo of mega-dots braille translator, wordperfect 5.1, lotus1-2-3 for dos, and much more. and you also get windows 3.1 with a window-eyes demo, keysoft and keynote gold demo, and text assist which sounds exactly like the old decTalk tts. oh and speaking of decTalk, fonix INC never emails me back about using decTalk as an NVDA addon. so it seems like they just don't care. so this is just me, but personally I am going to use the python3 decTalk addon just for my own personal use sometimes. But I still really like the codeFactory eloquence and vocalizer addon, and the codeFactory sapi5 text to speech that I bought, eloquence and vocalizer. 


 

Well you could always try a 32 bit version of windows.

That will run all 16 bit apps.

Now granted the emulation is utter crap but it will do if you need to use it.



On 13/09/2020 2:28 pm, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

I also would like to find  a way to renovate DOS for only one simple reason.  There were a few games: Any Night Football, Jim Kitchen's DOS baseball game (which works more smoothly than his windows port,) and World Series Baseball. 

In particular, World Series Baseball was and still would be one of my favorites of any game I have played.  With this game, not only did it come with preconceived teams from baseball history like the 1927 Yankees, The 1965 Dodgers, The 1976 Reds and so on, but you could also put together your own teams and give them high or low batting averages and the pitcher could get high or low ERAs.  If you did this with various configurations, you could rig the scores and outcomes of games.  For laughs and giggle, I put together two teams: one was a group of sighted people from the local ham radio clubs.  The other team was a number of blind people I knew from the local area.  I gave the sighted team low batting averages and high ERAs.  I have the blind people high batting averages and low ERAs.  I called the ham radio people 'the Buffalo Hambones.'  I called the blind people 'The Buffalo Blinks.' It was really funny.  The blind team won the World Series four games to zero by astronomical scores like 22-0 and 17-2.  What's more, the audio output of the games as they were being played could be saved to a text file.  I actually had this 500 KB sized text file and for laughs and giggle, I sent it around to various friends of mine.  Yes the virtual play-by-play of the game. What a hoot!  It was great when my good sighted ham friend Tony struck out four times when facing the young blind lady pitcher. 

Boy, I wish I could have a DOS system so I could play that game again!


On 9/12/2020 5:24 PM, blindgroupsluke@... wrote:

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


 

Thats a point joseph, I wander what would happen if you did run dosbox or dosemu within linux, I know you can do dosemu via ssh in actual linux and it will work.

The only thing you would really need would be some emulator that either uses windows terminal or the windows console itself.

I have a few games that run in the console and look alike modern dos programs but are console apps.

I wander how hard that would be to do, run dos and 16 bit programs well emulate them but run all the output through windows console.



On 13/09/2020 10:32 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


 

Well you technically can actually install dos 7.1 in its stripped down glory.

you can also buy drdos though why you would want to is beyond me.

However if you don't have a synth and software, forget it.

In the folder I just posted I have given you my old keynote software but the synth, well thats a hard one.

To be honest, your best bet is to run dosbox or dosemu which is quite old inside linux but thats to much effort to game to be honest.

Now if you guys, any of you have emulators I can try and see what or what doesn't work, email me off list and we can see.



On 13/09/2020 10:26 am, Luke Robinett wrote:
Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


 

Well old games obviously.

Lets face it though with agility, winfrotz, wintads and winglulxe you have 99.9% of the interactive fiction stuff working.

Which was why I worked hard with nick stocton to get the ifinterpreters addon compattible with nvda 2019.3 and up.

Right, so the reason you may want to use that sort of thing is to run old pc games, and things like gwbasic things and the like.


To be honest, think of dosbox as the windows subsystem of linux.

Obviously for the same reasons as you would have when running wsl you can't run kernal commands.

You can't replace io.sys, you can't modify autoexec and config files.

You can't run something like quemm or some management tools.

You can't run all those old norton programs, you can't run a lot of the extras you usually would.

But for me you can game, and run old programs, shells, maybe windows 3.1 if you really want, etc.


Now I havn't tried this thing, but if you can run windows 3.11 and run 16 bit apps like silent steel inside of it, then maybe I may try windows 3.11.

Dosbox is mainly for gamers that want to run old games, games that are programs etc.

If you just want to run interactive fiction then nstockton on github, get his entire nvda addons master, zip all the files in ifinterpriters folder, then rename it and install it and if you follow instructions it just works well enough.

To be honest even if you do run games in dosbox some stuff will still run to fast, and not everything will work as expected.



On 13/09/2020 9:32 am, Leslie wrote:

I sure understand retro things.  I like to listen to OTR. And that’s pretty retro.  I love old buildings, old cars and all sorts of older things, so good luck with Dos Box.  I hope it works great for you.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 

 


 

Luke there is talking dosbox at.

http://www.batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/

    In there there is a dosbox for nvda file.

It uses a file called redir to emulate things, and the nvda controler, it aint perfect but works.

The other thing you do use use a bns emulator and asap or jaws for dos inside the package.

I guess it would be nice to actually use the actual dosbox actual package with nvda though.



On 13/09/2020 8:21 am, blindgroupsluke@... wrote:

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 


David Ingram
 

What if someone needed to use a dos like program in order to get os system disk for older synthesizers like the old ensoniq gear like the ensoniq vfxsd, ensoniq ts12, ensoniq mr61.  I need to be able to get those old operating system disks because I want to use my old gear and start sequencing again.

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen
Sent: Sep 12, 2020 11:40 PM
To: "nvda@nvda.groups.io"
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Oh Jim, Bless him.
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>
Sent: 9/13/2020 12:28:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hi Group,

I also would like to find  a way to renovate DOS for only one simple reason.  There were a few games: Any Night Football, Jim Kitchen's DOS baseball game (which works more smoothly than his windows port,) and World Series Baseball. 

In particular, World Series Baseball was and still would be one of my favorites of any game I have played.  With this game, not only did it come with preconceived teams from baseball history like the 1927 Yankees, The 1965 Dodgers, The 1976 Reds and so on, but you could also put together your own teams and give them high or low batting averages and the pitcher could get high or low ERAs.  If you did this with various configurations, you could rig the scores and outcomes of games.  For laughs and giggle, I put together two teams: one was a group of sighted people from the local ham radio clubs.  The other team was a number of blind people I knew from the local area.  I gave the sighted team low batting averages and high ERAs.  I have the blind people high batting averages and low ERAs.  I called the ham radio people 'the Buffalo Hambones.'  I called the blind people 'The Buffalo Blinks.' It was really funny.  The blind team won the World Series four games to zero by astronomical scores like 22-0 and 17-2.  What's more, the audio output of the games as they were being played could be saved to a text file.  I actually had this 500 KB sized text file and for laughs and giggle, I sent it around to various friends of mine.  Yes the virtual play-by-play of the game. What a hoot!  It was great when my good sighted ham friend Tony struck out four times when facing the young blind lady pitcher. 

Boy, I wish I could have a DOS system so I could play that game again!


On 9/12/2020 5:24 PM, blindgroupsluke@... wrote:

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Stephen
 

Oh Jim, Bless him.
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>
Sent: 9/13/2020 12:28:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hi Group,

I also would like to find  a way to renovate DOS for only one simple reason.  There were a few games: Any Night Football, Jim Kitchen's DOS baseball game (which works more smoothly than his windows port,) and World Series Baseball. 

In particular, World Series Baseball was and still would be one of my favorites of any game I have played.  With this game, not only did it come with preconceived teams from baseball history like the 1927 Yankees, The 1965 Dodgers, The 1976 Reds and so on, but you could also put together your own teams and give them high or low batting averages and the pitcher could get high or low ERAs.  If you did this with various configurations, you could rig the scores and outcomes of games.  For laughs and giggle, I put together two teams: one was a group of sighted people from the local ham radio clubs.  The other team was a number of blind people I knew from the local area.  I gave the sighted team low batting averages and high ERAs.  I have the blind people high batting averages and low ERAs.  I called the ham radio people 'the Buffalo Hambones.'  I called the blind people 'The Buffalo Blinks.' It was really funny.  The blind team won the World Series four games to zero by astronomical scores like 22-0 and 17-2.  What's more, the audio output of the games as they were being played could be saved to a text file.  I actually had this 500 KB sized text file and for laughs and giggle, I sent it around to various friends of mine.  Yes the virtual play-by-play of the game. What a hoot!  It was great when my good sighted ham friend Tony struck out four times when facing the young blind lady pitcher. 

Boy, I wish I could have a DOS system so I could play that game again!


On 9/12/2020 5:24 PM, blindgroupsluke@... wrote:

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Luke Robinett
 

Hey Ron. Those games sound awesome! That’s what I loved about PC gaming back in the 90s – you would never find stuff that weird or goofy on the big gaming consoles of the day. you know, I guess I don’t really know what I’m looking for when it comes to revisiting DOS… It’s not like I have enough vision to appreciate any of the video games. I just thought it might be fun to try to write a basic program in QBasic or something. I don’t know. The more you described talking DOS box, the more I remember coming across something like that on a forum a while back. Sounds like it might represent a partial solution but it isn’t quite there yet? Still might be fun to poke around on


Luke Robinett
 

Hi Oriana. I was more poking fun at myself than anyone else with the under 30 comment, Haha. :) Thanks for letting me know about talking DOS box. Will definitely check that out.


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

The talking DOS box is actually the program I had referred to in my previous post.  i accidentally left out the 'talking' part of the title of the program.


On 9/12/2020 9:36 PM, Oriana wrote:
"if you don't recognize this you must be under 30" 

i was going to be offended but then I remembered that I did just turn 30 so you're just about right. 

If it's just for that retro feel, what about using Talking Dosbox? (scroll below the file list for a readme describing the program)



On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:08 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi,
Ah, I see.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lukasz Golonka
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

>
> Well Joseph
> I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
> May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
> I quote below what they say about it.
> “Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."
>
> From
> https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca
>
> David G.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph
> Lee
> Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi,
> The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
> As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke
> Robinett
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt
> in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last
> version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not
> mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put
> together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then
> install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go
> quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to
> give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any
> that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck
> installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I
> actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried
> installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work,
> mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing
> blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was
> happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later
>
>
>
>
>









-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I downloaded and installed DOS Box on two Windows ten machines a year or so ago. It is supposed to have Vocal-Eyes and/or JAWS For DOS run at start up after installation and going down to the command prompt and typing DOS Box or something similar.  While I did get the speech to run, none of the games including the three I mentioned in an earlier post would run.  Every time I tried running any of the DOS games, the system would hang.  I don't quite understand, but the last version of this DOS Box was supposed to use some aspects of NVDA as the software synthesizer while emulating the DOS environment. This is very technical and I don't quite understand how it works.  You have to create a virtual port of some sort by installing an additional piece of software. I did this, and I did get speech but as I said before, nothing really worked.


On 9/12/2020 6:26 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I also would like to find  a way to renovate DOS for only one simple reason.  There were a few games: Any Night Football, Jim Kitchen's DOS baseball game (which works more smoothly than his windows port,) and World Series Baseball. 

In particular, World Series Baseball was and still would be one of my favorites of any game I have played.  With this game, not only did it come with preconceived teams from baseball history like the 1927 Yankees, The 1965 Dodgers, The 1976 Reds and so on, but you could also put together your own teams and give them high or low batting averages and the pitcher could get high or low ERAs.  If you did this with various configurations, you could rig the scores and outcomes of games.  For laughs and giggle, I put together two teams: one was a group of sighted people from the local ham radio clubs.  The other team was a number of blind people I knew from the local area.  I gave the sighted team low batting averages and high ERAs.  I have the blind people high batting averages and low ERAs.  I called the ham radio people 'the Buffalo Hambones.'  I called the blind people 'The Buffalo Blinks.' It was really funny.  The blind team won the World Series four games to zero by astronomical scores like 22-0 and 17-2.  What's more, the audio output of the games as they were being played could be saved to a text file.  I actually had this 500 KB sized text file and for laughs and giggle, I sent it around to various friends of mine.  Yes the virtual play-by-play of the game. What a hoot!  It was great when my good sighted ham friend Tony struck out four times when facing the young blind lady pitcher. 

Boy, I wish I could have a DOS system so I could play that game again!


On 9/12/2020 5:24 PM, blindgroupsluke@... wrote:

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


David Griffith
 

A horrible misunderstanding indeed.

A little research is obviously a dangerous thing.

Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

David G.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Lukasz Golonka
Sent: 13 September 2020 01:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hello,

 

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs

called Orca apparently:

- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library

for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really

interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.

- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)

and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.

 

 

--

Regards

Lukasz

 

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100

"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

 

> Well Joseph

> I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.

> May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.

> I quote below what they say about it.

> “Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

> From

> https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

> David G.

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

>

>

> Hi,

> The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

> As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett

> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

>

>

> Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 


Oriana
 

"if you don't recognize this you must be under 30" 

i was going to be offended but then I remembered that I did just turn 30 so you're just about right. 

If it's just for that retro feel, what about using Talking Dosbox? (scroll below the file list for a readme describing the program)



On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:08 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi,
Ah, I see.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lukasz Golonka
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

>
> Well Joseph
> I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
> May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
> I quote below what they say about it.
> “Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."
>
> From
> https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca
>
> David G.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph
> Lee
> Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi,
> The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
> As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke
> Robinett
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt
> in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last
> version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not
> mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put
> together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then
> install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go
> quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to
> give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any
> that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck
> installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I
> actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried
> installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work,
> mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing
> blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was
> happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later
>
>
>
>
>









 

Hi,
Ah, I see.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lukasz Golonka
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:


Well Joseph
I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
May not be understanding the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
I quote below what they say about it.
“Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

From
https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

David G.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi,
The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke
Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt
in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last
version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not
mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put
together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then
install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go
quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to
give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any
that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck
installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I
actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried
installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work,
mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing
blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was
happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later





Lukasz Golonka
 

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs
called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library
for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really
interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:


Well Joseph
I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
I quote below what they say about it.
“Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

From
https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

David G.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi,
The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later