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An inconvenience in Thunderbird


Gene
 

I didn't bring it up because that specific thing matters to any extent.  I brought it up because, since I haven't used the program much, I wanted to see if it was a more general problem.  it appears to be very limited and probably doesn't matter to any extent if it is pursued.  But if it were a far more general characteristic of the dialogs in the program, it would matter. For example, if shortcut commands weren't announced in the spellchecker, that would really matter.  They are announced and are different from the Microsoft shortcut commands.  As I said, this appears not to be a problem in general based on what I've seen and the lack of response, so it appears nothing need be done.


I also brought it up because it is such a popular program among blind users and developers put work into making it accessible.


Gene

On 9/19/2020 7:26 PM, Hope Williamson wrote:
Honestly I don't think it's that much of an inconvenience. I ignore most
of those anyway, unless something is actually preventing me from doing
something. This is extremely rare. Say in 98% of cases. .




Hope Williamson
 

If I land on that particular dialogue, it's because I've messed up the
message I was writing really badly. I just discard it by default. That's
a different dialogue than say when Thunderbird is having issues saving
to the sent folder for some reason.

     Usually I get the dialogue that it's trying to save a message, but
can't because of network access errors. In that case I knew it was going
to slow everything down, so I wouldn't save the message either.


Hope Williamson
 

Honestly I don't think it's that much of an inconvenience. I ignore most
of those anyway, unless something is actually preventing me from doing
something. This is extremely rare. Say in 98% of cases. .


Gene
 

This may be such an isolated instance that it isn't worth worrying about.  The spellchecker has shortcut letters, the options page, which mimics a dialog in many places, has shortcut letters in a lot of places that mimic dialog fields.  I don't know if it does in all. 


Those more familiar with the details of the program may know if this is a very rare instance or if there are more places where this occurs.


Gene

On 9/19/2020 12:03 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Gene,

           It is my general understanding that the letter underlines, be they in a menu, set of buttons, or similar are what the program exposes to the screen reader.  If the program itself isn't set up to pass this information to the screen reader, there's nothing the screen reader can announce (and, no, I won't even consider the very old "screen scraping" method of getting things as I don't know that any modern screen reader employs this mechanism).

           But I get the same result with NVDA that you do, in that the S for Save and the D for Discard are shown on those buttons with underlines yet there is no, "Save button, ALT+S" or "Discard changes button, ALT+D" announcements when you're on them, just the button names.

           This could be an NVDA issue, or it could be that Thunderbird is doing something peculiar with what it exposes, or doesn't expose, to NVDA.  But that would be for the respective developers to work out between themselves.  All an end user can know is that this is a problem, but you can't be 100% certain where the root cause lies.

            I have no idea how common or uncommon this might be.
           
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Gene,

           It is my general understanding that the letter underlines, be they in a menu, set of buttons, or similar are what the program exposes to the screen reader.  If the program itself isn't set up to pass this information to the screen reader, there's nothing the screen reader can announce (and, no, I won't even consider the very old "screen scraping" method of getting things as I don't know that any modern screen reader employs this mechanism).

           But I get the same result with NVDA that you do, in that the S for Save and the D for Discard are shown on those buttons with underlines yet there is no, "Save button, ALT+S" or "Discard changes button, ALT+D" announcements when you're on them, just the button names.

           This could be an NVDA issue, or it could be that Thunderbird is doing something peculiar with what it exposes, or doesn't expose, to NVDA.  But that would be for the respective developers to work out between themselves.  All an end user can know is that this is a problem, but you can't be 100% certain where the root cause lies.

            I have no idea how common or uncommon this might be.
           
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

I've been using Thunderbird more over the last number of days and I realized that some of the dialogs aren't properly structured in the following regard:

When a button is announced, the shortcut letter should be spoken after the button.  In some dialogs, this isn't done.  For example, when you want to discard a message you are writing, a dialog asks you if you want to save or discard it.  The buttons don't speak the short cut letters.  At first, I thought that was because there aren't any.  But experimentation discloses that alt d discards the message.  I haven't tested for save but its probably alt s.


I tried to get NVDA, the program I've been evaluating with, to read the shortcut letter by using the command NVDA key tab when on the button but that didn't cause it to be read.  Evidently, the letters aren't underlined, which, it is my understanding, is the way screen-readers know to announce them in dialogs.


Those who have used the program for a longer time may have a sense of how many dialogs are deficient in this respect.  If the problem is rare, it may not be worth contacting the developers about.  If it is rather common, it would be.


Gene