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Gmail Filter Setup - Specifically, for the NVDA Group Messages


 

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:07 PM, Cristóbal wrote:
When I create a filter, I check the skip the inbox option so that the messages are sent directly to that folder/label.
-
As do I.  If I'm sending something to a specific label/folder I have no desire to have what is, for all practical intents and purposes, a second copy still resident in my Inbox.

I can envision some allowing it to "land in both" with the dedicated folder being their personal archive, but you still then have the issue of if you delete something from the inbox it's gone from all other labels it gets assigned.  The only way to nuke from the inbox and keep elsewhere is to delete the inbox label itself, leaving all others intact.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

 

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Cristóbal
 

When I create a filter, I check the skip the inbox option so that the messages are sent directly to that folder/label. All my mailing list emails are sent to a mailing list folder for example.

 

Cristóbal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2020 11:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Gmail Filter Setup - Specifically, for the NVDA Group Messages

 

Chris,

          Yes, that is "what they are," and Gmail uses a very peculiar mechanism of their own design for this, but somewhere beneath he fact that a message can have multiple labels applied, and show up in multiple folders as a result, you are correct that there is only one copy.  

           I haven't played with creating a message with multiple labels and then deleting it under only one of them to see if it remains in the others, which would suggest that there are multiple folders, most of which use symbolic links to access the actual message wherever it is.

            I've never had any need to assign multiple labels to a given message, and find it annoying when I do assign a specific one that the "inbox" label is not removed by default.  You have to do that in the filter.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Luke Davis
 

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 10:54 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Because they are labels.
-OK, fine.  If you want to adopt Google's mystery labels as being something real, be my guest.They're an excuse to obfuscate, as this entire discussion
pretty much proves.  They're as clear as mud, and as necessary as a screen door in a submarine. --
Hah. Okay, I think their more like what most other environments would call tags.

I can kind of see it from Google's point of view, having needed to build virtual filesystems a time or two myself.

When all that has really changed is the way you point to something, why go through the compute overhead of moving a potentially large file around?

And if that file needs to be reached from several places at once, why have to keep multiple copies of it? Especially when you serve millions of users, juggling billions of messages, all those little compute savings, disk IO savings, and cache actions add up to dollars.

And speaking of dollars, keep in mind that gmail's initial purpose, other than an ecosystem element, was to make advertising money for Google by allowing them to scan through all mail in gmail, to allow them to better target advertising to their users.
That is made computationally much less taxing, if they can cut down on duplication of data, and the need to compare content against other content to make sure they don't mess up their keyword weighting by having the same identical message processed several times, just because someone has it in multiple folders.

As much as I generally hate Google, I can admit the technical elegance of their solution.

Luke


 

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 10:54 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Because they are labels.
-

OK, fine.  If you want to adopt Google's mystery labels as being something real, be my guest.

They're an excuse to obfuscate, as this entire discussion pretty much proves.  They're as clear as mud, and as necessary as a screen door in a submarine.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

 

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Luke Davis
 

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020, Brian Vogel wrote:

is have a subject contains, using [nvda] as what it contains, and the actions being Skip Inbox and Apply Label where the label is your NVDA label (why Gmail
calls these things labels I'll never quite know, but they're implemented as IMAP folders)
Because they are labels.

Gmail can have real folders (such as All Mail), and virtual folders, which someone has described as "constantly updating search windows". The virtual folders get their contents based on the labels selected, but the mail has to exist in some real folder in order to be searchable and have a label.

That's why deleting a message from its real folder, deletes it from the virtual folder, because the virtual folders (label folders) don't hold any mail.

That's my understanding, anyway.

Luke

--
Thieves respect property. They merely wish the property to become their property that they may more perfectly respect it.


 

Chris,

           In playing with the filtering stuff it appears that if Inbox is one of the labels on a given message, that is the "master copy," because if I delete it from the Inbox it is also removed from all other labels it's associated with at the same time.  So if you have something that has the inbox label and other labels, and you want it to be retained elsewhere, do NOT delete it from inbox, just remove the inbox label.

           All of this presumes you're reading via Gmail webmail.  Heaven only knows how an e-mail client interacting with Gmail would handle this, as I know you can remove the inbox label on the web interface and the message will disappear in your inbox under an e-mail client, but there is no way to selectively nuke "labels" in an e-mail client.

           It would be nice if the labels worked like symbolic links do, and that the message would not be deleted until or unless the last active label is has gets removed from the message or it's deleted from the folder associated with its last label.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Daniel,

           You have to have an error somewhere.  The initial criteria should be only Subject using [nvda] and Doesn't have Private.  The two actions are skip the inbox (archive it) and Apply label with the appropriate label chosen.  If that's not working I cannot explain it and would suggest having a look at these pages, and using your preferred method to contact Google's Disability folks:

Google Accessibility Get In Touch Page

 

Contact the Google Disability Support Team
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Daniel McGee
 

Bryan, sorry for the confusion. When I said that I edited the filter. I basically substituted the: to filled address of this list for  your suggestion: the subject line including the brackets. 

Also, I told the rule to: skip the inbox. Plus apply the conversation's check box and finally to go into my NVDA folder. 

The rule works with incoming messages going into my NVDA folder. However, they still are not skipping my inbox. Thus Having duplicated messages in two locations. 

I hope this makes my setup more clearer to understand.

 wondering, is this the way that gmail behaves now by default?   

On 23 Sep 2020, at 22:41, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Daniel,

           It appears there may be issues with Groups.io messages and Gmail filtering, as there are workarounds that have had to be done with Gmail.  I am having no issues with filtering messages from the [jawsscripts] messages from freelist.org, but the Groups.io NVDA messages are still having the Inbox label applied to them in addition to the label for NVDA Group Messages, even when I say to archive them.  I'm researching further for a possible workaround.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

And, now, it appears to be working as I'd expect based on what I offered earlier.  I don't know if a message had come in just before I finished the filter or what, but now the incoming messages (in this case, from me, when I'm posting via the web) are being correctly shuttled to the NVDA Group Messages folder and bypassing inbox.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Daniel,

           It appears there may be issues with Groups.io messages and Gmail filtering, as there are workarounds that have had to be done with Gmail.  I am having no issues with filtering messages from the [jawsscripts] messages from freelist.org, but the Groups.io NVDA messages are still having the Inbox label applied to them in addition to the label for NVDA Group Messages, even when I say to archive them.  I'm researching further for a possible workaround.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Daniel,

           I am confused by your statement "edited the label," as labels are created and assigned to using filters, which are what get edited.   I just created a label under Gmail named NVDA Group Messages.  I then created a filter on subject that has one thing in it:  [nvda].  (open square bracket, lower case nvda, close square bracket) coupled with Does not have: Private.  I do not want messages sent to me as private messages to be grouped in with NVDA group messages.

           The actions are Skip inbox (archive it) and Apply label NVDA Group Messages.   If you want it to apply to email messages you've already received, then you also need to check the checkbox for Also apply filter to matching conversations, otherwise it will be run only on new messages as they arrive.

            It works like a charm.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Daniel McGee
 

Hi Bryan and Chris

Brian, thanks much for the tutorial. I edited the label with the subject line containing (nvda) also telling to skip the inbox. Alas though, the filter is still not performing the: skip inbox part. 

Am I still doing something wrong? 

On 23 Sep 2020, at 19:55, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Chris,

          Yes, that is "what they are," and Gmail uses a very peculiar mechanism of their own design for this, but somewhere beneath he fact that a message can have multiple labels applied, and show up in multiple folders as a result, you are correct that there is only one copy.  

           I haven't played with creating a message with multiple labels and then deleting it under only one of them to see if it remains in the others, which would suggest that there are multiple folders, most of which use symbolic links to access the actual message wherever it is.

            I've never had any need to assign multiple labels to a given message, and find it annoying when I do assign a specific one that the "inbox" label is not removed by default.  You have to do that in the filter.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Chris,

          Yes, that is "what they are," and Gmail uses a very peculiar mechanism of their own design for this, but somewhere beneath he fact that a message can have multiple labels applied, and show up in multiple folders as a result, you are correct that there is only one copy.  

           I haven't played with creating a message with multiple labels and then deleting it under only one of them to see if it remains in the others, which would suggest that there are multiple folders, most of which use symbolic links to access the actual message wherever it is.

            I've never had any need to assign multiple labels to a given message, and find it annoying when I do assign a specific one that the "inbox" label is not removed by default.  You have to do that in the filter.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Chris Mullins
 

Hi Daniel

They are called labels because that is what they are.  The Messages tagged with a particular label will be listed in a notional folder with that label name.  A message can be tagged with more than 1 label, for example, you could apply Phone an Utilities labels to a message containing  a phone bill and it would appear in both the Phone and Utilities notional folders but only one copy of the message actually exists.

 

Cheers

Chris


 

Daniel,

            Have a look at this tutorial: Creating IMAP Labels (Folders) and Filters for Gmail

            All you would need to do for the NVDA group is have a subject contains, using [nvda] as what it contains, and the actions being Skip Inbox and Apply Label where the label is your NVDA label (why Gmail calls these things labels I'll never quite know, but they're implemented as IMAP folders).
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Daniel McGee
 

Hello everyone, using gmail as my email provider. I'm having a really hard time trying to create a message rule / filter that'll apply the rule to go into my NVDA folder / label with NVDA.

I'm fairly certain that I have it all setup correctly but my incoming messages are: still showing up in the inbox. Even though I have told the rule to: skip the inbox and just go into the NVDA folder.

If I have missed any Criteria in getting the rule to work, then please, do let me know. As I'm starting to feel like its gmail and not human error on my part. Thank you

Daniel