nvda with all addons built in


Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...>
 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Lino Morales
 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


Bill Dengler
 

The project is open-source. If you think it’d benefit the community, feel free to create it!

Bill

On Dec 22, 2017, at 11:11 PM, Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:

Hi
Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA. 
 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 


Gene
 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.
 
I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


David Moore
 

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 


Roger Stewart
 

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 



Gene
 

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 



Mary Otten
 

Amen, Gene. There are a lot of JAWS scripts out there, but FS does not include them all with their product. Certain core NVDA add-ons, like Win 10 essentials, should be included with NVDA as a matter of course, as should any add-on that makes a core app such as MS office apps or a browser such as firefox more usable. All or nothing is a really stupid approach.


Mary


On 12/22/2017 5:39 PM, Gene wrote:
There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 




William James
 

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus

On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 



Mary Otten
 

One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or
audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@...> wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus

On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 



 

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@...> wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 

 


 

Hi,

One more thing I forgot to add: in case you didn’t see it, NVDA will announce Windows Update status without help from my add-on anymore (well, for the most part). This functionality was originally part of my add-on, but now part of NVDA Core as of 2017.3 with help from Mick Curran from NV Access. So parts of Windows 10 App Essentials are being integrated into NVDA Core when ready.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@...> wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 

 


Mary Otten
 

Hi Joseph,
I think the problem with the approach that you outlined is that it relies on the end-user to have a good deal of knowledge. Not just for your app but for others as well. For those of us who view the computer as a means of getting a job done, this is too much. That is one reason why people continue to use other screen readers where they hope, for certain price, they have some of this work done for them. In other words, one shouldn’t have to be a techie geek kind of person in order to use NVDA. As long as that is required, the share of NVDA users will be limited.


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@...> wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 

 


 

Hi,

Hmmm…

This is something we should discuss with NV Access (perhaps during NVDACon 2018). One thing I can offer you is take these notes and incorporate them into my tutorial series, perhaps in the add-ons chapter (January 2018) where I can emphasize the fact that NVDA is extensible and tell people how to obtain add-ons.

But more importantly, there will come a time (spoiler alert) when there will be a version of NVDA without any add-ons (at least temporarily). I’ll talk about what I just stated in due course (for those who already know, shhh for now).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi Joseph,
I think the problem with the approach that you outlined is that it relies on the end-user to have a good deal of knowledge. Not just for your app but for others as well. For those of us who view the computer as a means of getting a job done, this is too much. That is one reason why people continue to use other screen readers where they hope, for certain price, they have some of this work done for them. In other words, one shouldn’t have to be a techie geek kind of person in order to use NVDA. As long as that is required, the share of NVDA users will be limited.

 

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@...> wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 

 


Karim Lakhani <karim.lakhani@...>
 

that is your opinion!
Thanks for sharing!
 
 
 
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
 
 
 



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.
 
I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


Bhavya shah
 

Hi all,
In general, it would be unwise to incorporate ‘all’ community add-ons
into core, simply because we want to avoid a situation where NVDA
becomes bloatware, since some of the functionalities that add-ons
provide do not strictly better NVDA’s purpose of screen reading, and
since some applications for which add-ons render improved support and
access may not be used by more users than those that do. However, as
some have stated, this isn’t a an all or none of the above type
situation, but one wherein the feasibility of inclusion of every
individual add-on needs to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
* In case of app specific add-ons, we need to predefine a percentage
of users that we consider sufficiently large as being justification
for an add-on dedicated to the same program to be included in core.
Next, we need to devise a means of ascertaining the number of NVDA
users making use of the add-on or that program – via a survey, by
checking add-on download statistics, and assimilating user input from
various sources.
* In case of add-ons providing additional features, we shall need to
assess the relevance and scope of that feature to a screen reading
software. More (or less) importantly though, user feedback and add-on
stats will prove vital in evaluating the popularity of a certain
feature among the user base.
* In case of both the categories of add-ons mentioned above as well as
other distinguishable types of add-ons, the add-on footprint VS
utility ratio will need to be carefully factored in. We want to avoid
integrating and incorporating add-ons which dramatically increase
NVDA’s size since the lightweight and portable nature of NVDA is a USP
that must be retained even if the add-on in question provides
significant value.
Ideally, such messages of interest or disinterest in a particular
feature request, bug report, proposal of inclusion of specific add-ons
in core should be made on GitHub, but since that isn’t unfortunately
actively taking place due to whatever reason, we may want to gather
data in a more organized manner by conducting minimalistic polls and
surveys. Even so, we must be conscious of the number of respondents we
get in such exercises and the proportion they represent in NVDA’s
total recorded user base of 30,000 users.
Thanks.

On 12/23/17, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

Hmmm…

This is something we should discuss with NV Access (perhaps during NVDACon
2018). One thing I can offer you is take these notes and incorporate them
into my tutorial series, perhaps in the add-ons chapter (January 2018) where
I can emphasize the fact that NVDA is extensible and tell people how to
obtain add-ons.

But more importantly, there will come a time (spoiler alert) when there will
be a version of NVDA without any add-ons (at least temporarily). I’ll talk
about what I just stated in due course (for those who already know, shhh for
now).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary
Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Hi Joseph,
I think the problem with the approach that you outlined is that it relies on
the end-user to have a good deal of knowledge. Not just for your app but for
others as well. For those of us who view the computer as a means of getting
a job done, this is too much. That is one reason why people continue to use
other screen readers where they hope, for certain price, they have some of
this work done for them. In other words, one shouldn’t have to be a techie
geek kind of person in order to use NVDA. As long as that is required, the
share of NVDA users will be limited.



Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com
<mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and
drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest
advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all,
but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and
announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely
updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to
put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external
update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this
add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview,
which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of
things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing
smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into
NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual
operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10
essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the
operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be
incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But
if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package
you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are
add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody
uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should
be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So
there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@wilanddenise.com
<mailto:wil@wilanddenise.com> > wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the
computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different
stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no
clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know
this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> > wrote:

There are certain very important add ons. Why, when such discussions come
up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other
options. Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no
add ons. A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons. If the
Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that
add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general
user. If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on
should probably be included. What about the add on, which I gather isn't an
officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to
be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that
needed to be acted on. Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not
be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice. there is no reason
to have it be an all or nothing decision.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Roger Stewart <mailto:paganus2@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Yes! We don't want NVDA to become bloatware! Leave the core as is and
maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide
what add on to add. I have the SPL add on installed. If you don't ever
want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part
of nvda? Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with
the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs
are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the
cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their
workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS
office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10



From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



There is no reason to have all add ons built in. there are certain
important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew
about them that should be included. the Windows 10- app is probably such an
add on. Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.
Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it. it wasn't coded
into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did. Many widely
used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by
distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the
installation.



I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version
would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood
the difference.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive
now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10



From: Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in



Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with
all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and
shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10











--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Gene
 

That is why I said that the add on should be included and I didn't say that it should be incorporated in the core.  I also think that Mary, if I understand her messages correctly, means that the add on should be included but that she is using the term core incorrectly.  I think she is using it to mean included as an essential component and not made part of the core of the program itself.
 
Of course, I can't speak for her but I'm trying to eliminate confusion and she can state if I am correct.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@...> wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 

 


 

Hi,

Hmmm, that clarifies it somewhat.

I think the confusion stems from blurred definition of add-ons. An “add-on” is an extension of a program, something that is part of the host program yet not quite deeply embedded inside (some add-ons take it a step further by patching NVDA Core). In case of NVDA add-ons, they can do whatever they wish (including file system access, overriding NVDA’s functionality like what Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on does, patch NVDA code to their liking like what Remote Support add-on does when it communicates back and forth) and can be given same privileges as NVDA; in effect, as long as they are functioning, add-ons are part of NVDA and there’s really no separation between the worlds. At the same time, there exists separation between NVDA Core (the screen reader) and add-ons, in that add-ons are specialized, whereas NVDA is more general in what it can do.

As for the add-on roadmap, it ultimately comes down to author’s vision. In case of my add-ons, some are never meant to be incorporated into NVDA (such as GoldWave, StationPlaylist Studio, Resource Monitor and what not) and will remain as add-ons. Others, such as Enhanced Touch Gestures and Windows 10 App Essentials, are written with the goal of donating my code to NV Access at some point for inclusion into NVDA Core, thus they act as though they are truly part of NVDA when they run. Examples of the latter (not only mine but from other contributors) include:

  • Screen orientation announcement: on tablets such as Surface Pro, you can rotate the device and the screen will rotate. I figured out the mechanism to let NVDA announce screen rotation (and thus the new screen orientation), and this became part of Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on in 2016. In 2017, Derek Riemer, another NVDA code contributor, took my code and Tyler Spivey’s power announcement code and sent it to NV Access for review (with my blessing), and it is now part of NVDA 2017.4.
  • Live region announcements: originally, NVDA did not have a way to announce live regions (a portion of the screen that changes and should be treated as live text). Although live regions were supported on web browsers, it wasn’t until I wrote a more universal live region handler inside Windows 10 App Essentials add-on in 2016 did NVDA gain ability to announce live regions in universal apps, specifically for UIA objects. In 2017, Mick Curran incorporated my idea into NVDA, and as of NVDA 2017.3, there is now a universal way to announce live regions.
  • Suggestion sounds: it wasn’t NV Access who wrote this code; I did. In 2016, I wrote a way to let NVDA (via Windows 10 App Essentials add-on) to play a sound when search suggestions appeared, partly inspired by Narrator. I initially wrote this code for use on my add-on, then rewrote it to fit NVDA’s source code paradigm before submitting my work to NV Access for review. This work is now part of NVDA as of 2017.3.
  • Indentation tone: in 2016, Derek Riemer created an add-on to let people hear tones for indentation levels, which was demoed at NVDACon 2016. NV Access then asked Derek to incorporate this into NVDA, which he did later that year, and it is now part of NVDA.
  • Control usage assistant: I am the author of Control Usage Assistant add-on, an add-on that let you hear context-sensitive help for interacting with controls when you press NVDA+H. Currently NV Access is thinking about this idea and how to incorporate this into NVDA, and initial steps has been laid and this foundation will show up as part of NVDA 2018.1.
  • Windows OneCore voices: it wasn’t NV Access that wrote initial support for Windows OneCore (aka Microsoft Mobile) voices; that honor belongs to Tyler Spivey who wrote an add-on for this speech synthesizer long before NV Access did. Together with Tyler, NV access wrote the driver for this synthesizer which is now part of NVDA.

 

For some of them, even though an add-on is meant to stay an add-on, sometimes community feedback and interest from NV Access changes its course. Coupled with the explanation above (when I say add-ons are part of NVDA yet they are separate from it) is the reason why the add-ons community ask authors to follow NVDA source code guidelines when writing add-ons.

 

P.S. In regards to including Windows 10 App Essentials add-on: this one is tricky because I impose and update version requirements every six months to keep up with Windows as a Service (continuous delivery). The next stable version of this add-on (due in about two weeks) will require Windows 10 Version 1703 (Creators Update) and later; which means it won’t really be an add-on that should be included for sake of those running Windows 7, 8.x and old Windows 10 releases. One way to get around this is for NVDA installer to contact NV Access/add-ons server and ask for add-ons compatible with current Windows release, processor architecture, NVDA version and other factors.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

That is why I said that the add on should be included and I didn't say that it should be incorporated in the core.  I also think that Mary, if I understand her messages correctly, means that the add on should be included but that she is using the term core incorrectly.  I think she is using it to mean included as an essential component and not made part of the core of the program itself.

 

Of course, I can't speak for her but I'm trying to eliminate confusion and she can state if I am correct.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:26 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi,

As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or

audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@...> wrote:

Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living.

Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

There are certain very important add ons.  Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options.  Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons.  A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons.  If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user.  If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included.  What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on.  Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice.  there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Yes!  We don't want NVDA to become bloatware!  Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add.  I have the SPL add on installed.  If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda?  Same can be said for most add ons.

Roger











On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote:

I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either!

The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install.

I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students.

Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps.

The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob.

I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps.

Have a great one!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

There is no reason to have all add ons built in.  there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included.  the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on.  Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another.  Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it.  it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did.  Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.

 

I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

 

Hi

Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No its a different ethos. You don't want this as in some cases the add ons need the user to set up the keys they wish to be used, and some keys may clash. All I can say is that if you cannot install add onse which is a simple browser skill, the why on earth are you using a computer at a all, and who wasted their hard earned money on Jaws to not do stuff?
I have a friend who has been so poorly taught she is refusing for me to show her how easy browsing is. She has Supernova, a bit overkill but its is a very capable reader so she should have no issues at all. I never did when I used it and so half the issue is the perceived difficulty not the actual difficulty with NVDA, or indeed any screenreader.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in


Hi
Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.


Sent from Mail for Windows 10


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I find dropbox the best one to use, the others seem slow to me?
Besides my web site is integrated with dropbox and the public links are very easy.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in


Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in

Hi
Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.


Sent from Mail for Windows 10