Can anyone explain the Input Composition checkboxes in NVDA settings?


Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...>
 

Thank you for asking this! That area of the Settings has long mystified me as well but I figured I wasn’t missing much, considering NVDA seems to work just fine without ever having to touch those settings. Now I understand why. I also agree with the comments here about how some areas of NVDA settings could be better organized, made more clear and more easily discovered with some sort of search mechanism. Thanks again.

On Nov 6, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hi,

For Quentin: I’m thinking we should queue this for 2021.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 4:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can anyone explain the Input Composition checkboxes in NVDA settings?

 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 07:13 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

As much as IME’s are associated with Asian languages, it is used in other languages

-
These settings relate to Asian languages and other languages that use IMEs as part of their input.

Easy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

Hi,

For Quentin: I’m thinking we should queue this for 2021.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 4:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can anyone explain the Input Composition checkboxes in NVDA settings?

 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 07:13 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

As much as IME’s are associated with Asian languages, it is used in other languages

-
These settings relate to Asian languages and other languages that use IMEs as part of their input.

Easy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

Hi,

I think we could possibly do that as a tool tip, although it is somewhat mitigated in recent NVDA alpha snapshots where a form of context-sensitive help was added to NVDA interface controls (at the moment if you press F1 from NVDA settings controls, the relevant section from the user guide will open). The next step would be generalizing this initial version of context-sensitive help to other places, but that will involve reimagining the current approach as well.

For a practical demonstration of input composition settings, take a look at Welcome to NVDA tutorial set, which can be found at:

https://www.josephsl.net/tutorials

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 4:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can anyone explain the Input Composition checkboxes in NVDA settings?

 

Joseph,

          You were typing as I was typing.

           First, thanks for that incredibly detailed, yet concise, explanation.

           Second, that detailed information on each one of the checkboxes could easily be condensed into a "what's the function, and when" blurb for each checkbox.  There's plenty of screen real estate that's unused on that pane that could be productively used for just the sort of info you've provided.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 07:13 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
As much as IME’s are associated with Asian languages, it is used in other languages
-
These settings relate to Asian languages and other languages that use IMEs as part of their input.

Easy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

Hi,

As much as IME’s are associated with Asian languages, it is used in other languages, hence a bit hard to say that it only applies to Asian language input (perhaps an explanation could state that it is a useful feature for people typing or working with Asian languages).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 4:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can anyone explain the Input Composition checkboxes in NVDA settings?

 

Jackie,

         Thanks much.  This is another instance where I cannot fathom why that settings pane does not state, directly, that these settings apply to the input of Asian character sets.   Had that been a part of the pane I wouldn't have even asked the question.  This is the sort of thing that needs to be a part of that particular pane, telling you what the collection of settings is about.  Then, if necessary for those who would be tweaking these, something about what doing so would do, if that wouldn't already be obvious to someone who would be tweaking those settings.  They're all "not obvious" to me, but I had no idea they applied to Asian character sets only, either.

          Much as I love NVDA, and I do, there are some serious improvements that can be made to the actual settings hierarchy itself as far as what is stated on various panes for the settings collectively as well as the individual settings and the creation of a search mechanism (which I realize is a non-trivial ask) for the entire settings hierarchy.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

Joseph,

          You were typing as I was typing.

           First, thanks for that incredibly detailed, yet concise, explanation.

           Second, that detailed information on each one of the checkboxes could easily be condensed into a "what's the function, and when" blurb for each checkbox.  There's plenty of screen real estate that's unused on that pane that could be productively used for just the sort of info you've provided.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

Jackie,

         Thanks much.  This is another instance where I cannot fathom why that settings pane does not state, directly, that these settings apply to the input of Asian character sets.   Had that been a part of the pane I wouldn't have even asked the question.  This is the sort of thing that needs to be a part of that particular pane, telling you what the collection of settings is about.  Then, if necessary for those who would be tweaking these, something about what doing so would do, if that wouldn't already be obvious to someone who would be tweaking those settings.  They're all "not obvious" to me, but I had no idea they applied to Asian character sets only, either.

          Much as I love NVDA, and I do, there are some serious improvements that can be made to the actual settings hierarchy itself as far as what is stated on various panes for the settings collectively as well as the individual settings and the creation of a search mechanism (which I realize is a non-trivial ask) for the entire settings hierarchy.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

Hi,

I know that user guide can be a bit vague on this, but based on discussion I had with NV Access people back in 2012 when these settings first made their appearance and experiences from Chinese, Japanese, and Korean speakers (I speak Korean; now you know half of the story):

These settings control how NVDA reacts to input method editor (IME) interfaces. Certain languages ship with IME’s, and because the well-known languages where IME is frequently encountered (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, collectively called CJK) provide different input experiences (candidates window for Chinese and Japanese, standard QWERTY-style input for Hangul/Korean), Windows will present different input experiences, and thus NVDA must respond differently. Visually, these languages are pictorial characters, and when you type in these languages, a square “composition” window will be used to complete each character/shape. How NVDA can announce these characters is beyond the scope of this thread.

The input composition settings panel consist of:

  • Automatically report all available candidates: used when entering Chinese characters where you need to choose from multiple candidates for a given pronunciation or a word. These candidates are presented as a grid as soon as you either type the first few syllables or press Chinese character key (right Control key for Korean keyboards). For example, when entering Chinese characters through Korean IME, the character “su” can have different Chinese character representations such as “water,” “number,” “manual,” and so on. NVDA will announce these candidates when this setting is on.
  • Announce selected candidate: used when entering Chinese characters, especially when navigating between candidates. When candidates appear, you can use arrow keys to navigate it.
  • Always include short character description when announcing candidates: useful when entering Chinese characters through Korean IME. As I noted above, because a single character in Korean can have multiple Chinese character representations, it is helpful to hear exactly what these characters stand for in Chinese through a short description. To support this, Korean translation of NVDA includes short descriptions for thousands of Chinese characters used in China and South Korea.
  • Report changes to the reading string: useful for Chinese input methods where different character combinations can yield different texts.
  • Report changes to the composition string: when using IME’s with direct QWERTY-style input such as Korean/Hangul, a square window will be visible as you type. The shapes inside the composition window changes as you type, and NVDA can be set to announce changes to this.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 3:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can anyone explain the Input Composition checkboxes in NVDA settings?

 

That's pretty much it.  There are scads of NVDA settings that I do not really understand, for which I am unaware of specific documentation to read, and where the descriptions at the controls themselves don't help me to understand what they mean at all and what the potential ramification(s) is (are) of checking or unchecking any one of them.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Jackie
 

Hello, Brian V. This is a setting in NVDA which assists w/the reading
of Asian languages. You can find out a little more about it in the
NVDA user guide in section 12.1.13.

HTH?

On 11/6/20, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
That's pretty much it.  There are scads of NVDA settings that I do not
really understand, for which I am unaware of specific documentation to read,
and where the descriptions at the controls themselves don't help me to
understand what they mean at all and what the potential ramification(s) is
(are) of checking or unchecking any one of them.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn





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That's pretty much it.  There are scads of NVDA settings that I do not really understand, for which I am unaware of specific documentation to read, and where the descriptions at the controls themselves don't help me to understand what they mean at all and what the potential ramification(s) is (are) of checking or unchecking any one of them.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn