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problem with links in email when using Thunderbird
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Mary Otten
Hi all,
Earlier, I posted a note where I explained that I wasn't able to activate a link in an email sent to this group using NVDA. I tried all the methods I'm aware of to no avail, and Brian has just confirmed that he can't access these links using T-bird when NVDA is not loaded. So it appears not to be an NVDA issue. I wonder if others who use T-bird are having problems accessing links in emails, such as those that appear at the end of messages sent to this group, where you may reply only to sender, mute the topic or reply to the whole group. If you have had issues activating such links, what was your fix? Or did you not find one? Mary |
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Gene
If such features work, that's fine. I don't rely on them in part because I wanted to know how to do this before such features were available.
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For Thunderbird, if you are in an opened message, and you use the command control u, you will see the source, which other programs call full headers. With Thunderbird, you are using Browse Mode when looking at full headers. Search the way you would use for a web page, using the NVDA browse mode search command for from: That's from and a colon immediately after it. Repeat the search once and you will be on the from line. Move to the beginning of the name, use shift end, then copy the address to the clipboard. Start a new message and paste it in. There are probably other ways to do this in Thunderbird, perhaps with fewer steps but this is the method I use on the rare occasions I want to reply to someone directly. And, while Groups.io has a reply to sender link, as far as I know, other list serves don't provide one. Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Mary Otten Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 4:56 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird Hi all, Earlier, I posted a note where I explained that I wasn't able to activate a link in an email sent to this group using NVDA. I tried all the methods I'm aware of to no avail, and Brian has just confirmed that he can't access these links using T-bird when NVDA is not loaded. So it appears not to be an NVDA issue. I wonder if others who use T-bird are having problems accessing links in emails, such as those that appear at the end of messages sent to this group, where you may reply only to sender, mute the topic or reply to the whole group. If you have had issues activating such links, what was your fix? Or did you not find one? Mary |
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Gene
I forgot to add that when you are finished working with the source, close it with alt f4.
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 5:06 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird If such features work, that's fine. I don't rely on them in part because I wanted to know how to do this before such features were available. For Thunderbird, if you are in an opened message, and you use the command control u, you will see the source, which other programs call full headers. With Thunderbird, you are using Browse Mode when looking at full headers. Search the way you would use for a web page, using the NVDA browse mode search command for from: That's from and a colon immediately after it. Repeat the search once and you will be on the from line. Move to the beginning of the name, use shift end, then copy the address to the clipboard. Start a new message and paste it in. There are probably other ways to do this in Thunderbird, perhaps with fewer steps but this is the method I use on the rare occasions I want to reply to someone directly. And, while Groups.io has a reply to sender link, as far as I know, other list serves don't provide one. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Mary Otten Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 4:56 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird Hi all, Earlier, I posted a note where I explained that I wasn't able to activate a link in an email sent to this group using NVDA. I tried all the methods I'm aware of to no avail, and Brian has just confirmed that he can't access these links using T-bird when NVDA is not loaded. So it appears not to be an NVDA issue. I wonder if others who use T-bird are having problems accessing links in emails, such as those that appear at the end of messages sent to this group, where you may reply only to sender, mute the topic or reply to the whole group. If you have had issues activating such links, what was your fix? Or did you not find one? Mary |
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That will not always work as for some lists like those I run I have the address hidden so you might see someone'@groups.io even though that is not their address. Hence forth, you cannot rely on that either 100 percent. -- Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. Check out my adventures with a shadow machine. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here On 2 Dec 2020, at 15:07, Gene wrote:
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It is also possible to easily copy either the e-mail address itself, or the whole mailto link, that is given by the Reply to Sender link at the end of messages.
In Thunderbird, if I have focus on the Reply To Sender link, one of the options that comes up if I bring up the context menu is, Copy email address, which does exactly what you'd think it would do, and gets only the e-mail address out of the mailto: link. You can then manually compose a new message and paste that email address into the To: field. Also, oddly enough, if I attempt to directly activate the Reply to Sender link in Thunderbird, I get a new tab for composing that says, Loading, and never loads. Yet, if I gain focus on the Reply to Sender link, bring up the context menu, and choose Compose message to, a new composition window, rather than tab, opens right up with the e-mail address of the sender pre-populated, but without the subject being pre-populated as it would were the Reply to Sender link working as designed. I do not have any issue with the Reply to Sender link in Outlook 2016, eM Client, or Gmail webmail. This is a Thunderbird bug. But now that I've done some additional resource it definitely is easy to get around and you still use the Reply to Sender link, but don't activate it directly, but bring up the context menu and go from there. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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By the way, the Reply to Sender link, which is simply using click-through text for a mailto: link, is 100% correct. If it sticks trying to use it directly, regardless of the email client or webmail, try bringing up the context menu once it has focus and the correct email address of the sender is always part of that mailto link.
-- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Gene
But is a reply to sender link available in e-mail programs on lists where the address is hidden? Does it make sense to hide the address while allowing a reply to sender link that will expose the address?
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 5:17 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird That will not always work as for some lists like those I run I have the address hidden so you might see someone'@groups.io even though that is not their address. Hence forth, you cannot rely on that either 100 percent. -- Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. Check out my adventures with a shadow machine. to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there. For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there. Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here On 2 Dec 2020, at 15:07, Gene wrote: I forgot to add that when you are finished working with the source, close it with alt f4. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Gene via groups.io Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 5:06 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird If such features work, that's fine. I don't rely on them in part because I wanted to know how to do this before such features were available. For Thunderbird, if you are in an opened message, and you use the command control u, you will see the source, which other programs call full headers. With Thunderbird, you are using Browse Mode when looking at full headers. Search the way you would use for a web page, using the NVDA browse mode search command for from: That's from and a colon immediately after it. Repeat the search once and you will be on the from line. Move to the beginning of the name, use shift end, then copy the address to the clipboard. Start a new message and paste it in. There are probably other ways to do this in Thunderbird, perhaps with fewer steps but this is the method I use on the rare occasions I want to reply to someone directly. And, while Groups.io has a reply to sender link, as far as I know, other list serves don't provide one. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Mary Otten Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 4:56 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird Hi all, Earlier, I posted a note where I explained that I wasn't able to activate a link in an email sent to this group using NVDA. I tried all the methods I'm aware of to no avail, and Brian has just confirmed that he can't access these links using T-bird when NVDA is not loaded. So it appears not to be an NVDA issue. I wonder if others who use T-bird are having problems accessing links in emails, such as those that appear at the end of messages sent to this group, where you may reply only to sender, mute the topic or reply to the whole group. If you have had issues activating such links, what was your fix? Or did you not find one? Mary |
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On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 06:38 PM, Gene wrote:
But is a reply to sender link available in e-mail programs on lists where the address is hidden?- I have no idea. I have never dealt with an e-mail list where e-mail addresses are hidden such that you cannot reply privately if you so choose. But even if such exist, they're irrelevant to discussions regarding Groups.io, and the Reply to Sender link, which is provided on every message that goes out. This conversation has a clearly defined scope, and I'm not trying to expand beyond it. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Jonathan COHN
Well, there are a couple possibilities here.
1. The group is truly hiding addresses either for privacy concerns, or to ensure that conversations go through the group. In this case, even if you look through the entire set of headers, you will not find the address. 2. There are ISP's that require that all e-mail sent with a from: of that ISP be certified as coming from an official SMTP server of the ISP. Therefore group mails have to change the from address to not have any remnants of the ISP. For Google Groups, you can search the full headers for x-original-from: and this will be the sender. It might be that Outlook presents this because the from lines in Outlook are something like: From Joe Smith on behalf of David Coperfield but I don't get any group mails on Outlook so I can't verify what Outlook is doing behind the scenes. |
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Gene
I haven't used such links and I wonder if they have access to the address even if it doesn't appear in the message. But the links don't work in Thunderbird even in lists where the addresses are available in the headers and/or the from line. There is no response when the links are attempted to be followed. I tried enter, the NVDA default action command, and the simulated mouse. I wonder what happens when a sighted person clicks them with a mouse? At this point, we don't have information to conclude whether this is an accessibility problem or a general problem in Thunderbird.
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan COHN via groups.io Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 7:50 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird Well, there are a couple possibilities here. 1. The group is truly hiding addresses either for privacy concerns, or to ensure that conversations go through the group. In this case, even if you look through the entire set of headers, you will not find the address. 2. There are ISP's that require that all e-mail sent with a from: of that ISP be certified as coming from an official SMTP server of the ISP. Therefore group mails have to change the from address to not have any remnants of the ISP. For Google Groups, you can search the full headers for x-original-from: and this will be the sender. It might be that Outlook presents this because the from lines in Outlook are something like: From Joe Smith on behalf of David Coperfield but I don't get any group mails on Outlook so I can't verify what Outlook is doing behind the scenes. |
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On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 08:55 PM, Gene wrote:
I wonder what happens when a sighted person clicks them with a mouse? At this point, we don't have information to conclude whether this is an accessibility problem or a general problem in Thunderbird.- They work. And yes, we do. Do you not even bother reading the details I give for this very purpose? From an earlier message: "I do not have any issue with the Reply to Sender link in Outlook 2016, eM Client, or Gmail webmail. This is a Thunderbird bug. But now that I've done some additional resource it definitely is easy to get around and you still use the Reply to Sender link, but don't activate it directly, but bring up the context menu and go from there." Entire message here from 3 days ago: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/79440 -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Gene
I'm sorry if I forgot or didn't notice a detail in the over two hundred messages I get a day. A little courtesey and consideration would work wonders.
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 8:38 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 08:55 PM, Gene wrote: I wonder what happens when a sighted person clicks them with a mouse? At this point, we don't have information to conclude whether this is an accessibility problem or a general problem in Thunderbird.- They work. And yes, we do. Do you not even bother reading the details I give for this very purpose? From an earlier message: "I do not have any issue with the Reply to Sender link in Outlook 2016, eM Client, or Gmail webmail. This is a Thunderbird bug. But now that I've done some additional resource it definitely is easy to get around and you still use the Reply to Sender link, but don't activate it directly, but bring up the context menu and go from there." Entire message here from 3 days ago: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/79440 -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell |
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Gene
I may be on the verge of figuring out what is causing the problem. I'll report after a little more investigation.
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Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Gene Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 9:47 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird I'm sorry if I forgot or didn't notice a detail in the over two hundred messages I get a day. A little courtesey and consideration would work wonders. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 8:38 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 08:55 PM, Gene wrote: I wonder what happens when a sighted person clicks them with a mouse? At this point, we don't have information to conclude whether this is an accessibility problem or a general problem in Thunderbird.- They work. And yes, we do. Do you not even bother reading the details I give for this very purpose? From an earlier message: "I do not have any issue with the Reply to Sender link in Outlook 2016, eM Client, or Gmail webmail. This is a Thunderbird bug. But now that I've done some additional resource it definitely is easy to get around and you still use the Reply to Sender link, but don't activate it directly, but bring up the context menu and go from there." Entire message here from 3 days ago: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/79440 -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell |
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On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 10:47 PM, Gene wrote:
I'm sorry if I forgot or didn't notice a detail in the over two hundred messages I get a day.- No, Gene, you're not. This is not the first, nor the last, time you fail to pay any attention or review a topic in its entirety. And it's equally frustrating each and every time you do it, and then pretend it's an oversight. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell
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Gene
As it turns out, I can't check this myself. For an unknown reason, I don't see the reply to sender or however it is worded link in my Groups.io messages. However, the problem may be caused by browse mode and the actual location in the message not aligning, as happens on some web pages.
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To experiment try the following: In an opened message, turn Browse modeoff and tab to the link. for convenience, find a very short thread or one in which there is only one message. With browse mode still off, press enter on the link and see what happens. If the problem is that browse mode doesn't align with the actual underlying link, that would be an NVDA issue and would be treated very differently than if it is a Groups.io issue. Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 9:57 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird I may be on the verge of figuring out what is causing the problem. I'll report after a little more investigation. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Gene Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 9:47 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird I'm sorry if I forgot or didn't notice a detail in the over two hundred messages I get a day. A little courtesey and consideration would work wonders. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2020 8:38 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with links in email when using Thunderbird On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 08:55 PM, Gene wrote: I wonder what happens when a sighted person clicks them with a mouse? At this point, we don't have information to conclude whether this is an accessibility problem or a general problem in Thunderbird.- They work. And yes, we do. Do you not even bother reading the details I give for this very purpose? From an earlier message: "I do not have any issue with the Reply to Sender link in Outlook 2016, eM Client, or Gmail webmail. This is a Thunderbird bug. But now that I've done some additional resource it definitely is easy to get around and you still use the Reply to Sender link, but don't activate it directly, but bring up the context menu and go from there." Entire message here from 3 days ago: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/79440 -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind. ~ Thomas Reed Powell |
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Dave Grossoehme
Good Day: I apologize for seeing your message a little late. I have been using Thunderbird for sometime with a desktop and a laptop. I haven't had any problem with these links.
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Dave On 12/2/2020 3:56 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Hi all, |
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