LibreOffice and NVDA


UMIT ERDEM Yigitoglu
 

Hello,
I just got a new labtop andnaturally lost my office programs. I don't want to use a piret program and can not efford the prise. have any of you used libraoffice instead of michrosopht? what is your experience with it? 


 

LibreOffice is a frequently recommended alternative to Microsoft Office.  It is very actively supported and is accessible.  It can handle all MS-Office file formats and can, if you so choose, be set up to save in those formats by default rather than using the equivalent open document file formats.  Word, or at least any recent versions, is capable of opening Open Document Template (.odt) files, and I'd have to believe that the equivalents for the other office suite programs can open their counterparts as well.

Like any change, it takes a bit of time to get used to the LibreOffice way of doing things.  But it's not anywhere near impossible, just the standard and annoying learning curve.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Chris Mullins
 

Hi

I have been using Libra Office for about 6 months and am not an intensive user as all I need it for are a few letters and spreadsheets.  I can get by with it, I have the occasional crash which I have never been able to establish a reason for but my most annoying problem is that I cannot find how to format numbers in Calc, the Libra equivalent of Excel as I can’t stop it from truncating trailing zeroes in decimal numbers.

 

Cheers

Chris    

 

From: UMIT ERDEM Yigitoglu
Sent: 10 December 2020 17:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] libraoffice and nvda

 

Hello,
I just got a new labtop andnaturally lost my office programs. I don't want to use a piret program and can not efford the prise. have any of you used libraoffice instead of michrosopht? what is your experience with it? 

 


 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=format+numbers+LibreOffice+Calc 


Formatting number of digits in LibreOffice Calc, MS Excel ... 
      (one can always use the Decimal Places field under options, ticking the number up to whatever you need, too)

Custom Number Format Basics - LibreOffice Calc ...
       (this one covers very "non general" cases where you want to customize all sorts of things about how a number may be presented, including but not limited to having custom text, e.g. "miles," or "quarterly," trailing it.)

Calc: Customize 'General' number format ... - Ask LibreOffice
        (this one gets into customizing the Calc blank spreadsheet template if you want your general number format to constantly be something other than what it defaults to, which is stripped of leading zeros and trailing zero decimals)


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


 

I have and it works, but what do you mean you lost your office programs.

If the office is your own, and you have a key you can get it back.

If the office is registered to your microsoft account, and you don't need it on the older system, or its broken, remove it and then put it on the other one.

If you are subscribed to office 365, you can just install it again.

If you mean you have a recycled key which may be a little dodgy, then email me off list, because there could be a way round that.



On 11/12/2020 6:32 am, UMIT ERDEM Yigitoglu wrote:
Hello,
I just got a new labtop andnaturally lost my office programs. I don't want to use a piret program and can not efford the prise. have any of you used libraoffice instead of michrosopht? what is your experience with it? 


Chris Mullins
 

Hi Brian

I do that but it displays 123.40 as 123.4.  There is loads of help concerning suppressing leading zeroes but I can’t find anything to do with stopping it dropping trailing zeroes.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 10 December 2020 18:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] libraoffice and nvda

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=format+numbers+LibreOffice+Calc 


Formatting number of digits in LibreOffice Calc, MS Excel ... 
      (one can always use the Decimal Places field under options, ticking the number up to whatever you need, too)

Custom Number Format Basics - LibreOffice Calc ...
       (this one covers very "non general" cases where you want to customize all sorts of things about how a number may be presented, including but not limited to having custom text, e.g. "miles," or "quarterly," trailing it.)

Calc: Customize 'General' number format ... - Ask LibreOffice
        (this one gets into customizing the Calc blank spreadsheet template if you want your general number format to constantly be something other than what it defaults to, which is stripped of leading zeros and trailing zero decimals)


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 

 


 

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:
I do that but it displays 123.40 as 123.4. 
-
No snark intended, but "do what?"   I haven't dealt with Calc in a while, but I seem to recall that choosing any of the pre-defined formats with 2 decimal places always showed both.  I also can't imagine, though you can confirm/refute, that setting the Decimal field to two does not always keep two digits after the decimal point showing.  There has got to be a way to do this, as it's a constant need to present data with a fixed number of decimal places.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


 

By the way, I am back to strongly recommending SoftMaker Free Office as an alternative to Microsoft Office for those who need only a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation manager.  It has the added bonus of running under Windows, Linux, and on the Mac.

Now, this strong recommendation comes with several provisos:

1.  When you first start any one of the programs, you are asked what user interface style you want, but nothing is announced for each of the three choices for ribbon options nor for each of the two options for menu-driven options.

2.  The ribbon interface is absolutely, positively NOT accessible with NVDA.  I presume this is a problem with SoftMaker's software.

3.  From the testing I've done, the menu-driven user interface (UI) is 100% accessible with NVDA, which is what makes this suite an option.

You would want a sighted assistant right after install so that when you fire up any one of the three programs, TextMaker (word processor), PlanMaker (spreadsheet), or Presentations (equivalent of PowerPoint) as that's the point at which the user interface choice is made.  Making it for any one of the three makes that choice apply to the other two as well, or at least it did for me.

This suite is the most like MS-Word of any that I have worked with, and now that it appears it is accessible if the menu-driven UI is chosen, it's worth another look.  If anyone tries it, and finds accessibility stumbling blocks with the menu-driven UI, please report back on where it is/they are occurring.  There's no way I can get beyond basic testing and dig in to each and every option in each and every menu.

You can have SoftMaker Office save the files it creates in Microsoft document formats and set this up as the default.  But the initial default is not the Microsoft formats, but it's own.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


David Goldfield
 

Brian,
I appreciate the recommendation. I may give this program a try. I'm wondering if NVDA's object navigation commands can be used to select the user interface. I'll report back with findings although, for me, I'm fairly content with LibreOffice as an Office alternative for the things I use it for.
David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 12/10/2020 4:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

By the way, I am back to strongly recommending SoftMaker Free Office as an alternative to Microsoft Office for those who need only a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation manager.  It has the added bonus of running under Windows, Linux, and on the Mac.

Now, this strong recommendation comes with several provisos:

1.  When you first start any one of the programs, you are asked what user interface style you want, but nothing is announced for each of the three choices for ribbon options nor for each of the two options for menu-driven options.

2.  The ribbon interface is absolutely, positively NOT accessible with NVDA.  I presume this is a problem with SoftMaker's software.

3.  From the testing I've done, the menu-driven user interface (UI) is 100% accessible with NVDA, which is what makes this suite an option.

You would want a sighted assistant right after install so that when you fire up any one of the three programs, TextMaker (word processor), PlanMaker (spreadsheet), or Presentations (equivalent of PowerPoint) as that's the point at which the user interface choice is made.  Making it for any one of the three makes that choice apply to the other two as well, or at least it did for me.

This suite is the most like MS-Word of any that I have worked with, and now that it appears it is accessible if the menu-driven UI is chosen, it's worth another look.  If anyone tries it, and finds accessibility stumbling blocks with the menu-driven UI, please report back on where it is/they are occurring.  There's no way I can get beyond basic testing and dig in to each and every option in each and every menu.

You can have SoftMaker Office save the files it creates in Microsoft document formats and set this up as the default.  But the initial default is not the Microsoft formats, but it's own.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 



 

David,

           Just for the record, I have written to SoftMaker identifying the accessibility issues I've listed, so I'll definitely try to remember to post again if I get a response.

           I guess it's possible that object navigation might help, but I'm doubting it based on what I can see.  I can move around using the standard TAB/SHIFT+TAB conventions in the choose UI dialog, but nothing is spoken.

           LibreOffice is a great product.  The main reason I like SoftMaker Office is due to just how much its look and feel is like MS Office.  For those who don't want to buy MS-Office, but who still really would prefer to stick with MS-Office, this is as close as you can get without being there, particularly if you can see.  Since the ribbon interface does not work with NVDA, that means the look and feel will be slightly different going back to a menu driven interface, but some seem to want that anyway, and you can't get it in MS-Office.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


 

Hmmm I could be interested in softmaker office as an alternitive.

I don't need office as such but I may need it later on.

The more I think about it, the only addition I would really need would be the home and student addition which while a little steap in price at 250 is at least affordable as long as thats all I ever need.

There are software places like buy.recycled.com which are supposed to be selling legal recycled software, but it really doesn't matter to much as long as I get something that works for dolphin converter.

Which needs 2010 or higher.

Crazy thing is that if I handle upgrades right I may be able to get an old 2007 office install disk with 3 keys on it but thats really old.

I have been contemplating office 360, the only reason I am not for that as such is I don't really need or use office on a daily type deal.

I have jarte pro for most things.

I wander if softmaker have been approached on the interface type ddeals.



On 11/12/2020 10:53 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
By the way, I am back to strongly recommending SoftMaker Free Office as an alternative to Microsoft Office for those who need only a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation manager.  It has the added bonus of running under Windows, Linux, and on the Mac.

Now, this strong recommendation comes with several provisos:

1.  When you first start any one of the programs, you are asked what user interface style you want, but nothing is announced for each of the three choices for ribbon options nor for each of the two options for menu-driven options.

2.  The ribbon interface is absolutely, positively NOT accessible with NVDA.  I presume this is a problem with SoftMaker's software.

3.  From the testing I've done, the menu-driven user interface (UI) is 100% accessible with NVDA, which is what makes this suite an option.

You would want a sighted assistant right after install so that when you fire up any one of the three programs, TextMaker (word processor), PlanMaker (spreadsheet), or Presentations (equivalent of PowerPoint) as that's the point at which the user interface choice is made.  Making it for any one of the three makes that choice apply to the other two as well, or at least it did for me.

This suite is the most like MS-Word of any that I have worked with, and now that it appears it is accessible if the menu-driven UI is chosen, it's worth another look.  If anyone tries it, and finds accessibility stumbling blocks with the menu-driven UI, please report back on where it is/they are occurring.  There's no way I can get beyond basic testing and dig in to each and every option in each and every menu.

You can have SoftMaker Office save the files it creates in Microsoft document formats and set this up as the default.  But the initial default is not the Microsoft formats, but it's own.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


David Goldfield
 

I'll definitely report back on what I find and will try the equivalent of object navigation on other screen readers. Otherwise, I'll get assistance from AIRA.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 12/10/2020 5:49 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

David,

           Just for the record, I have written to SoftMaker identifying the accessibility issues I've listed, so I'll definitely try to remember to post again if I get a response.

           I guess it's possible that object navigation might help, but I'm doubting it based on what I can see.  I can move around using the standard TAB/SHIFT+TAB conventions in the choose UI dialog, but nothing is spoken.

           LibreOffice is a great product.  The main reason I like SoftMaker Office is due to just how much its look and feel is like MS Office.  For those who don't want to buy MS-Office, but who still really would prefer to stick with MS-Office, this is as close as you can get without being there, particularly if you can see.  Since the ribbon interface does not work with NVDA, that means the look and feel will be slightly different going back to a menu driven interface, but some seem to want that anyway, and you can't get it in MS-Office.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 



David Goldfield
 

Hi. Office Home and Student normally sells for just under $150.00 but it's currently still on sale for a little under $100.00. Comes with Word, Excel and Powerpoint.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 12/10/2020 5:50 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Hmmm I could be interested in softmaker office as an alternitive.

I don't need office as such but I may need it later on.

The more I think about it, the only addition I would really need would be the home and student addition which while a little steap in price at 250 is at least affordable as long as thats all I ever need.

There are software places like buy.recycled.com which are supposed to be selling legal recycled software, but it really doesn't matter to much as long as I get something that works for dolphin converter.

Which needs 2010 or higher.

Crazy thing is that if I handle upgrades right I may be able to get an old 2007 office install disk with 3 keys on it but thats really old.

I have been contemplating office 360, the only reason I am not for that as such is I don't really need or use office on a daily type deal.

I have jarte pro for most things.

I wander if softmaker have been approached on the interface type ddeals.



On 11/12/2020 10:53 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
By the way, I am back to strongly recommending SoftMaker Free Office as an alternative to Microsoft Office for those who need only a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation manager.  It has the added bonus of running under Windows, Linux, and on the Mac.

Now, this strong recommendation comes with several provisos:

1.  When you first start any one of the programs, you are asked what user interface style you want, but nothing is announced for each of the three choices for ribbon options nor for each of the two options for menu-driven options.

2.  The ribbon interface is absolutely, positively NOT accessible with NVDA.  I presume this is a problem with SoftMaker's software.

3.  From the testing I've done, the menu-driven user interface (UI) is 100% accessible with NVDA, which is what makes this suite an option.

You would want a sighted assistant right after install so that when you fire up any one of the three programs, TextMaker (word processor), PlanMaker (spreadsheet), or Presentations (equivalent of PowerPoint) as that's the point at which the user interface choice is made.  Making it for any one of the three makes that choice apply to the other two as well, or at least it did for me.

This suite is the most like MS-Word of any that I have worked with, and now that it appears it is accessible if the menu-driven UI is chosen, it's worth another look.  If anyone tries it, and finds accessibility stumbling blocks with the menu-driven UI, please report back on where it is/they are occurring.  There's no way I can get beyond basic testing and dig in to each and every option in each and every menu.

You can have SoftMaker Office save the files it creates in Microsoft document formats and set this up as the default.  But the initial default is not the Microsoft formats, but it's own.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 



Gene
 

This may be of no concern but the download instructions on the web site say the following:

When you install FreeOffice, the icons for common document formats such as DOCX, XLSX and PPTX are assigned to FreeOffice. If you do not like our icon style, you can easily restore the previous icons by running this script:
sudo /usr/share/freeoffice2018/mime/remove_icons.sh


The instructions, from the quick look I gave them, are about Linux and perhaps about another installation but I didn't see anything about Windows.


The change in icons, I suspect, doesn't affect accessibility.  I'm pointing this out in case it does and in case the script doesn't function properly on Windows machines.  Since I didn't see anything about Windows, I don't know if the script should be run.


Gene

On 12/10/2020 3:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
By the way, I am back to strongly recommending SoftMaker Free Office as an alternative to Microsoft Office for those who need only a word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation manager.  It has the added bonus of running under Windows, Linux, and on the Mac.

Now, this strong recommendation comes with several provisos:

1.  When you first start any one of the programs, you are asked what user interface style you want, but nothing is announced for each of the three choices for ribbon options nor for each of the two options for menu-driven options.

2.  The ribbon interface is absolutely, positively NOT accessible with NVDA.  I presume this is a problem with SoftMaker's software.

3.  From the testing I've done, the menu-driven user interface (UI) is 100% accessible with NVDA, which is what makes this suite an option.

You would want a sighted assistant right after install so that when you fire up any one of the three programs, TextMaker (word processor), PlanMaker (spreadsheet), or Presentations (equivalent of PowerPoint) as that's the point at which the user interface choice is made.  Making it for any one of the three makes that choice apply to the other two as well, or at least it did for me.

This suite is the most like MS-Word of any that I have worked with, and now that it appears it is accessible if the menu-driven UI is chosen, it's worth another look.  If anyone tries it, and finds accessibility stumbling blocks with the menu-driven UI, please report back on where it is/they are occurring.  There's no way I can get beyond basic testing and dig in to each and every option in each and every menu.

You can have SoftMaker Office save the files it creates in Microsoft document formats and set this up as the default.  But the initial default is not the Microsoft formats, but it's own.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


 

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 06:05 PM, Gene wrote:
The instructions, from the quick look I gave them, are about Linux
-
Indeed.  They aren't applicable to Windows.  And the icons for Office document formats, provided you have or had Office, do not change on Windows when you install SoftMaker Office (or LibreOffice, for that matter).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


 

SoftMaker wrote back, pretty promptly, saying that they have no direct support for the free version of SoftMaker Office, which in and of itself is not surprising.

I am annoyed that they didn't really look at the fact that the request wasn't for support, per se, but regarding accessibility issues that likely span the free and paid products.  But I can't blame any software maker that issues a free and paid version of their software for not having professional support for the free version.  They do have an established online forum for users of the free version, but it would not likely do much good to get an account and post about this there.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


 

Hmmm maybe its worth me buying this depending on the price and looking at it then.

I haven't really needed to or bothered, but this close to christmas, I have little in the way of projects to do.

With most updates almost done, little is left to get sorted out bar maybe a few extras on one other thing I am working on.

Next year, that may be different.

There is also this flexy pdf thing to.



On 11/12/2020 5:36 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
SoftMaker wrote back, pretty promptly, saying that they have no direct support for the free version of SoftMaker Office, which in and of itself is not surprising.

I am annoyed that they didn't really look at the fact that the request wasn't for support, per se, but regarding accessibility issues that likely span the free and paid products.  But I can't blame any software maker that issues a free and paid version of their software for not having professional support for the free version.  They do have an established online forum for users of the free version, but it would not likely do much good to get an account and post about this there.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Chris Mullins
 

Hi Brian

I agree, there has got to be a way but I can’t find it.  When positioned on one of the cells in question and I press Control+1 to open the format Cells dialog, it opens in the number tab with

Format option in the list: -1234.57, Language: English UK, Decimal places: 2, Negative numbers red unchecked, Leading zeroes: 1, Thousands separator unchecked and Format Code: 0.00.

 

I’ve messed around with it in the past but gave up on it.

 

Cheers

Chris       

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 10 December 2020 21:39
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] LibreOffice and NVDA

 

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:

I do that but it displays 123.40 as 123.4. 

-
No snark intended, but "do what?"   I haven't dealt with Calc in a while, but I seem to recall that choosing any of the pre-defined formats with 2 decimal places always showed both.  I also can't imagine, though you can confirm/refute, that setting the Decimal field to two does not always keep two digits after the decimal point showing.  There has got to be a way to do this, as it's a constant need to present data with a fixed number of decimal places.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell