shortcut keys


Don H
 

Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?


Rui Fontes
 

NVDA commands.


NVDA portuguese team

NVDA portuguese team


Às 16:55 de 11/12/2020, Don H escreveu:

Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?





Don H
 

OK so it is ok for NVDA to have such useful shortcut keys for headings, links buttons and so on but it is not ok to have a virtual ribbon function like Jaws has?

On 12/11/2020 11:01 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
NVDA commands.
NVDA portuguese team
NVDA portuguese team
Às 16:55 de 11/12/2020, Don H escreveu:
Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?






Chris Mullins
 

                Hi Don

It’s actually l for list and they are NVDA Single Letter Navigation keys for use in brwse mode.  See section 6.1 of the NVDA User guide.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: Don H
Sent: 11 December 2020 16:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] shortcut keys

 

Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons

NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?

 

 

 

 

 

 


Gene
 

They are called quick navigation commands and they are determined by your screen-reader when using the virtual pc cursor or browse mode, whatever your screen-reader calls it. However, there is a lot of standardization between NVDA and JAWS regarding these commands, they are almost all the same. I don't know about other screen-readers.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] shortcut keys

Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons
NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?


 

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 12:33 PM, Don H wrote:
OK so it is ok for NVDA to have such useful shortcut keys for headings, links buttons and so on but it is not ok to have a virtual ribbon function like Jaws has?
-
JAWS has used quick browsing shortcut keys for years and years now, most of which are the same as the ones NVDA is using.

The virtual ribbon is a crutch, was introduced when accessibility to the ribbon was sketchy because it was new, and is utterly unnecessary now.  The ribbons are nothing more than menus that have a slightly different navigation method.  And since they've been the de facto standard user interface for over a decade now, knowing how to use them in their native, and entirely accessible, form is far better than creating an unnecessary system to overlay them.  Freedom Scientific is not doing anyone any favors by not retiring this feature.


The NVDA Commands Quick Reference can be brought up with the command NVDA+N,H,Q.  It's one of the handiest commands when you need to find one of the commands you seldom use or have just forgotten.  The User Guide can be opened with NVDA+N,H,U.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Kyle McRorey
 

Hello my name is Kyle I am a certified assistive technology trainer graduate of access technology institute.  I do not personally like the idea of a virtual ribbon menu and NVDA that is similar to JAWS. As a trainer my experience is that such menus actually mess people up that is it is not correct mainstream windows user interface.


Gene
 

There is absolutely no comparison. The quick navigation keys allow you to do something of enormous value that you couldn't do other wise. They allow you to move by structure on web sites. There is no sighted equivalent because sighted people can just look at structures on web pages. Its as though you asked if the read title bar command should be in screen-readers but nop virtual ribbon menus. Again, the read title bar command gives you access to something sighted people can just look at and it gives immediate access to very important information.

the virtual ribbon menu JAWS implemented does nothing that is not already done as well or better by ribbons. It provides an unnecessary interface that limits blind people. By limiting, I mean that instructions for sighted users always use the real ribbons, of course, and tutorials for blind users usually use the real ribbons when giving instructions. Therefore, you are significantly limited if you know the JAWSS interface and not the real one.

Have you tried to learn ribbons and not the JAWS special interface? If so, what problems did you have?

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] shortcut keys

OK so it is ok for NVDA to have such useful shortcut keys for headings,
links buttons and so on but it is not ok to have a virtual ribbon
function like Jaws has?

On 12/11/2020 11:01 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
NVDA commands.


NVDA portuguese team

NVDA portuguese team


Às 16:55 de 11/12/2020, Don H escreveu:
Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?










Gene
 

In my original message, I said they are called quick navigation commands. On reflection, I don't know if they are called quick navigation keys or commands or both.

And the command is k for link in NVDA.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] shortcut keys

They are called quick navigation commands and they are determined by your
screen-reader when using the virtual pc cursor or browse mode, whatever your
screen-reader calls it. However, there is a lot of standardization between
NVDA and JAWS regarding these commands, they are almost all the same. I
don't know about other screen-readers.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] shortcut keys

Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons
NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?


Tony Ballou
 

Hi,

 

These are the same navigation quick keys that are found in most other screen readers to navigate PDF HTML and word documents which possess HTML elements in them. 

 

Tony

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Don H
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] shortcut keys

 

Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons
NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?





 


Bob Cavanaugh
 

As others have said, these are screen reader commands, but many are
standardized across screen readers. They do act differently in
different screen readers however. For example, System Access
acknowledges that there are landmarks on a page by automatically
starting to read from a main landmark, but has no way to navigate by
landmark. What NVDA and JAWS call combo boxes accessed with the
command c, System Access calls drop-down lists, accessed with the
command d. Another difference, and this one is kind of annoying, is
that System Access and NVDA both inform you that there aren't anymore
headings on a page but keep you at the last heading, while JAWS rapps
back to the top of the page. Different screen readers do have
different commands. For instance, in JAWS, insert F5 provides a list
of form controls, insert F6 provides a list of headings, and insert F7
provides a list of links. In NVDA, insert F7 brings up an elements
list, from which all the above elements can be listed by navigating to
the radio buttons and choosing the one you want.

On 12/11/20, Don H <lmddh50@adams.net> wrote:
Are the shortcut keys such as l for links, h for headers, b for buttons
NVDA shortcut keys or they windows shortcuts?







 

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 02:06 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
What NVDA and JAWS call combo boxes accessed with the command c, System Access calls drop-down lists, accessed with the
command d.
-
And what's even more annoying, at least to me, is that if any screen reader uses only one of those terms to cover both object types, then the distinction between a combo box (which allows you to type in the box itself, rather than having to drop down and select) and dropdown box (which doesn't, you must drop down and select) is lost.

True combo boxes seem to have fallen largely out of fashion, but they exist as a separate entity from a dropdown box, and vice versa.

I don't really care if a single shortcut is used for both, but the documentation should note that this means either a combo box or a dropdown box.  The NVDA Commands Quick Reference mentions combo boxes only.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Bob Cavanaugh
 

It's been ages since I've worked with those, so long in fact that I
can't remember what NVDA or System Access says when those are
encountered. I think JAWS and NVDA both say "edit combo box."

On 12/11/20, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 02:06 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:


What NVDA and JAWS call combo boxes accessed with the command c, System
Access calls drop-down lists, accessed with the
command d.
-
And what's even more annoying, at least to me, is that if any screen reader
uses only one of those terms to cover both object types, then the
distinction between a combo box (which allows you to type in the box itself,
rather than having to drop down and select) and dropdown box (which doesn't,
you must drop down and select) is lost.

True combo boxes seem to have fallen largely out of fashion, but they exist
as a separate entity from a dropdown box, and vice versa.

I don't really care if a single shortcut is used for both, but the
documentation should note that this means either a combo box or a dropdown
box.  The NVDA Commands Quick Reference mentions combo boxes only.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

*If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to
something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you
have a legal mind.*

~ Thomas Reed Powell