|
Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur
with them. If anything, I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this
one. Joseph has done a magnificent job, and the fact that he was man
enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly
took lots of courage! I'm very proud of him for being so honest and so up
front, yet being so respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his
credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can
tell in my heart that he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest,
contrary to what a lot of you all may think, or believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday
who will be 100% left nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my
signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I
felt Joseph was burned out. For the record, let me just say this. I
had planned today to talk to this person more if the questions continued, but
honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech support line, and when I said
I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go
read his blog post which explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't
apparently do so. I have no issue talking to others, including this member
both as a friend, and as a business related thing, but don't! put me as the
middle man, off business hours or not. That really put me in a
very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as
I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude,
but I neither wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about
things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one
at that. Just because I put my work phone number in my signature doesn't
mean I did so, so that people could call me about list admin duties. I'm
not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out,"
quote unquote, then don't you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to
explain on his blog? He posted that link for a reason, and that reason
wasn't to have people just ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole
shoot and kill now, ask questions later principle. It shouldn't be that
way. Joseph gave you all a resource to look at, if you're wondering, so,
for goodness sake, use it if you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be
the one to clear this up for everyone on the list. It's not my
responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this
statement, but I had to say something before this got more out of hand than it
already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with
my utmost of respect for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32
PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a
list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to
choose a new moderator. I think that another point is that they also need to
be respected by the majority of the list members where they will serve, and
that's where the on list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of
topic, the greater the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the
transition will be a smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done
with NVDA, and this list, over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the
following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person’s name
as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn’t about head
moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer
Jaber):
1.
Have used NVDA for the past three years or
more.
2.
Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums
for the past three years or more.
3.
Ability to communicate well, especially when
confronting a crisis such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and
such.
4.
Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even
in the face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing
proceedings).
5.
Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members
of this forum when making list-wide decisions.
6.
Familiarity with Groups.IO administration
controls.
7.
Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking
to NV Access and other NVDA developers.
8.
Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such
as NVDA release announcements in a timely manner.
9.
Willingness to step down from position of power when
appropriate (recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10.
Willingness to shower members of this list and the
wider NVDA community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving
members.
11.
Having the servant’s attitude (to serve, not to be
served).
12.
Willingness to be accountable and answerable to
members of this list and the public.
13. Must
be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in the country a
candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, “look, these requirements are too
hard.” I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other
moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of
this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself.
Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications
will be accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April
so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout
May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is
because of the following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies
to associate moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I
was not criticizing Michael lee for stepping down. I criticized the
reasons he gave and pointed out that that reason implies that younger members
might be considered for the position while older people might not be because
they are not and cannot be part of the generational shift. If most people
resigned from things because they were in their late twenties or early thirties,
we would lose most of the experience and knowledge that comes with age. If
most of us resigned because we were worried about who would carry on if some
mishap happened to us, then everyone would have to resign from everything
because a mishap can happen to anyone. That's why there are procedures
that institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or disability.
I also said that I appreciate the work Michael Lee
did in running the list.
My main criticism was to the proposal to elect the
next moderator.
If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his
decision. I did not criticize that decision.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid hash tags)
Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur
with them. If anything, I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this
one. Joseph has done a magnificent job, and the fact that he was man
enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly
took lots of courage! I'm very proud of him for being so honest and so up
front, yet being so respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his
credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can
tell in my heart that he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest,
contrary to what a lot of you all may think, or believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday
who will be 100% left nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my
signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I
felt Joseph was burned out. For the record, let me just say this. I
had planned today to talk to this person more if the questions continued, but
honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech support line, and when I said
I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go
read his blog post which explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't
apparently do so. I have no issue talking to others, including this member
both as a friend, and as a business related thing, but don't! put me as the
middle man, off business hours or not. That really put me in a
very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as
I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude,
but I neither wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about
things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one
at that. Just because I put my work phone number in my signature doesn't
mean I did so, so that people could call me about list admin duties. I'm
not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out,"
quote unquote, then don't you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to
explain on his blog? He posted that link for a reason, and that reason
wasn't to have people just ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole
shoot and kill now, ask questions later principle. It shouldn't be that
way. Joseph gave you all a resource to look at, if you're wondering, so,
for goodness sake, use it if you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be
the one to clear this up for everyone on the list. It's not my
responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this
statement, but I had to say something before this got more out of hand than it
already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with
my utmost of respect for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32
PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a
list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to
choose a new moderator. I think that another point is that they also need to
be respected by the majority of the list members where they will serve, and
that's where the on list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of
topic, the greater the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the
transition will be a smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done
with NVDA, and this list, over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the
following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person’s name
as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn’t about head
moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer
Jaber):
1.
Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2.
Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the
past three years or more.
3.
Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a
crisis such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and
such.
4.
Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing
proceedings).
5.
Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.
6.
Familiarity with Groups.IO administration
controls.
7.
Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access and other NVDA developers.
8.
Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.
9.
Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10. Willingness to
shower members of this list and the wider NVDA community with love and mercy,
including to misbehaving members.
11. Having the
servant’s attitude (to serve, not to be served).
12. Willingness to
be accountable and answerable to members of this list and the
public.
13. Must be at
least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in the country a
candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, “look, these requirements are too
hard.” I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other
moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of
this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself.
Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications
will be accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April
so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout
May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is
because of the following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies
to associate moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during this
entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea but perhaps
you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing people for
absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread Gene's post.
Laz
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@gmail.com> wrote: Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything,
I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I
don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm
very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so
respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think we all
need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart that
he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a
lot of you all may think, or believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to
this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she
called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which
explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as a
business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business
hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position
yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say
anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither
wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that
people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin,
nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't
you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog?
He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask
questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg
the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect
for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the on
list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater
the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list,
over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as the
candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head moderator
position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the
past three years or more.
3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.
4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).
5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.
7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access and other NVDA developers.
8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.
9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.
11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served).
12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list
and the public.
13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in
the country a candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, and
in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only
applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will be
accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so the
new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the
following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate
moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
Hi Gene,
Not Michael Lee, it is Joseph Lee.
Just minorly correcting.
However, on this note, I would just like to express my wholehearted
respect to Joseph for all the work he has done.
Thanks.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 3/23/16, Laz <laz@talkingmp3players.com> wrote: um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during this
entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea but perhaps
you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing people for
absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread Gene's post.
Laz
On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@gmail.com> wrote:
Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If
anything,
I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say,
I
don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage!
I'm
very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so
respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think we
all
need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart
that
he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a
lot of you all may think, or believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to talk
to
this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look...
he/she
called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play
the
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which
explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I
have
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as
a
business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business
hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position
yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say
anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither
wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because
I
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that
people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an
admin,
nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't
you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his
blog?
He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people
just
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask
questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all
a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it
if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to
say
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg
the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of
respect
for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator.
I
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the
on
list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the
greater
the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this
list,
over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as
the
candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head
moderator
position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the
past three years or more.
3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a
crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.
4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).
5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.
7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access and other NVDA developers.
8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.
9. Willingness to step down from position of power when
appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.
11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served).
12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this
list
and the public.
13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult
in
the country a candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list,
and
in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only
applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will
be
accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so
the
new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the
following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate
moderators as well. Good luck.
--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@talkingmp3players.com
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr
-- Warm Regards Bhavya Shah Using NVDA (Non Visual Desktop Access) free and open source screen reader for Microsoft Windows To download a copy of the free screen reader NVDA, please visit http://www.nvaccess.org/Using Google Talkback on Motorolla G second generation Lollipop 5.0.2 Reach me through the following means: Mobile: +91 7506221750 E-mail id: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Skype id : bhavya.09
|
|
|
Hi Gene and others, I did record an address that I shall post a link to shortly. Perhaps I may have used a wrong word: when I talk about change of generation, what I really meant was the next group of enthusiasts. Sorry about the confusion. As for concerns that I’ll be leaving this community: resignation doesn’t mean departure. I’ll still be around to answer questions, participating as a member and one of the code contributors to NVDA screen reader. As for hashtag issue people were getting: all fixed. Sorry for the inconvenience. Cheers, Joseph
From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:17 AM To: nvda@groups.io Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing Michael lee for stepping down. I criticized the reasons he gave and pointed out that that reason implies that younger members might be considered for the position while older people might not be because they are not and cannot be part of the generational shift. If most people resigned from things because they were in their late twenties or early thirties, we would lose most of the experience and knowledge that comes with age. If most of us resigned because we were worried about who would carry on if some mishap happened to us, then everyone would have to resign from everything because a mishap can happen to anyone. That's why there are procedures that institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or disability. I also said that I appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the list. My main criticism was to the proposal to elect the next moderator. If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his decision. I did not criticize that decision. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything, I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart that he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a lot of you all may think, or believe. He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature. He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as a business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things. I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be frankly. My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog? He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem. Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect for them. ---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the on list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a smooth one. Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list, over the past three years. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice #AdminNotice Hi, If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person’s name as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn’t about head moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber): 1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more. 2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the past three years or more. 3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such. 4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings). 5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this forum when making list-wide decisions. 6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls. 7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV Access and other NVDA developers. 8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA release announcements in a timely manner. 9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate (recalled, on his or her own will and so on). 10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members. 11. Having the servant’s attitude (to serve, not to be served). 12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list and the public. 13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in the country a candidate resides in). Some of you may say, “look, these requirements are too hard.” I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will be accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May). Thank you. Cheers, Joseph P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the following blog post: http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
Wait,
who's Michael? I thought it was Joseph Lee.
Now I'm confused. LOL!
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:17
AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda]
qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I
was not criticizing Michael lee for stepping down. I criticized the
reasons he gave and pointed out that that reason implies that younger members
might be considered for the position while older people might not be because
they are not and cannot be part of the generational shift. If most
people resigned from things because they were in their late twenties or early
thirties, we would lose most of the experience and knowledge that comes with
age. If most of us resigned because we were worried about who would
carry on if some mishap happened to us, then everyone would have to resign
from everything because a mishap can happen to anyone. That's why there
are procedures that institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or
disability.
I also said that I appreciate the work Michael
Lee did in running the list.
My main criticism was to the proposal to elect
the next moderator.
If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his
decision. I did not criticize that decision.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a
list (stupid hash tags)
Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not
concur with them. If anything, I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on
this one. Joseph has done a magnificent job, and the fact that he was
man enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I can do this anymore
adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm very proud of him for being so
honest and so up front, yet being so respectful to all of us in how he did
things. To his credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a
break. I really can tell in my heart that he truly, truly does care, and
is trying his darndest, contrary to what a lot of you all may think, or
believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member
yesterday who will be 100% left nameless, who called me at the phone number
listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I
felt Joseph was burned out. For the record, let me just say this.
I had planned today to talk to this person more if the questions continued,
but honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech support line, and when I
said I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go ask Joseph
directly, go read his blog post which explains everything of his
reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have no issue talking to
others, including this member both as a friend, and as a business related
thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business hours or not.
That really put me in a very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put
on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly,
and be taken as being rude, but I neither wanted to hold back and not
say how I felt about things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new
one at that. Just because I put my work phone number in my signature
doesn't mean I did so, so that people could call me about list admin
duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out,"
quote unquote, then don't you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing
to explain on his blog? He posted that link for a reason, and that
reason wasn't to have people just ignore it, then later wonder. It's the
whole shoot and kill now, ask questions later principle. It shouldn't be
that way. Joseph gave you all a resource to look at, if you're
wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if you're wonderring. I,
shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for everyone on the list.
It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this
statement, but I had to say something before this got more out of hand than it
already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with
my utmost of respect for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32
PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a
list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to
choose a new moderator. I think that another point is that they also need to
be respected by the majority of the list members where they will serve, and
that's where the on list voting will help. The more that vote on this type
of topic, the greater the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the
transition will be a smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done
with NVDA, and this list, over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the
following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person’s
name as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn’t about head
moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer
Jaber):
1.
Have used NVDA for the past three years or
more.
2.
Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the
past three years or more.
3.
Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a
crisis such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and
such.
4.
Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing
proceedings).
5.
Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.
6.
Familiarity with Groups.IO administration
controls.
7.
Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access and other NVDA developers.
8.
Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.
9.
Willingness to step down from position of power when
appropriate (recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10. Willingness
to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA community with love and
mercy, including to misbehaving members.
11. Having the
servant’s attitude (to serve, not to be served).
12. Willingness
to be accountable and answerable to members of this list and the
public.
13. Must be at
least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in the country a
candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, “look, these requirements are too
hard.” I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other
moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of
this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself.
Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted
(applications will be accepted until early April, and election will be held
by end of April so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role
throughout May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is
because of the following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies
to associate moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
I didn't say that anyone said something bad about Joseph. Yall're unintentionally putting proverbial words in my mouth. All that I said was, you all need to give Joseph a break. That was a bad choice of words on my part. What I meant was, give him a break, as in, give him a chance to have! a break/stepping back time in his modding abilities. I didn't mean it as in, you all're being unfair to him, give the poor guy a break. Like I said, bad choice of words. Sorry about that.
I feel that Joseph was, and for the time being in the present still is a wonderful moderator, and though I'm saddened that he's leaving that role, realize that all things good come to an end sooner or later. It's just the nature of the fallen world.
Laz, I apologize to you and Joseph, as well as any others who may have felt that the way I stated things in that last message was accusative. I did not mean for it to come across as such, and in you all's credit of defense, I can see where you guys may have read that out of context, so forgive me.
Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laz" <laz@talkingmp3players.com> To: <nvda@groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during this
entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea but perhaps
you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing people for
absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread Gene's post.
Laz
On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@gmail.com> wrote:
Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything,
I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I
don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm
very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so
respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think we all
need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart that
he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a
lot of you all may think, or believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to
this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she
called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which
explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as a
business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business
hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position
yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say
anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither
wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that
people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin,
nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't
you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog?
He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask
questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg
the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect
for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the on
list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater
the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list,
over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as the
candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head moderator
position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the
past three years or more.
3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.
4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).
5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.
7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access and other NVDA developers.
8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.
9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.
11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served).
12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list
and the public.
13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in
the country a candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, and
in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only
applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will be
accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so the
new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the
following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate
moderators as well. Good luck.
--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@talkingmp3players.com
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr
|
|
|
Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
Like Joseph, I, too, just for the record used a bad
choice of words. For that, again, Laz and others, I
apologize.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 12:50
PM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda]
qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Hi Gene and
others,
I did record an address that I
shall post a link to shortly.
Perhaps I may have used a
wrong word: when I talk about change of generation, what I really meant was
the next group of enthusiasts. Sorry about the
confusion.
As for concerns that I’ll be
leaving this community: resignation doesn’t mean departure. I’ll still be
around to answer questions, participating as a member and one of the code
contributors to NVDA screen reader.
As for hashtag issue people
were getting: all fixed. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Cheers,
Joseph
From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:17 AM
To:
nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying
to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
I did not and I went
out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing Michael lee for stepping
down. I criticized the reasons he gave and pointed out that that reason
implies that younger members might be considered for the position while older
people might not be because they are not and cannot be part of the
generational shift. If most people resigned from things because they
were in their late twenties or early thirties, we would lose most of the
experience and knowledge that comes with age. If most of us resigned
because we were worried about who would carry on if some mishap happened to
us, then everyone would have to resign from everything because a mishap can
happen to anyone. That's why there are procedures that institutions have
for filling a vacancy left by death or disability.
I also said that I
appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the list.
My main criticism was
to the proposal to elect the next moderator.
If Michael Lee wants
to resign, that's his decision. I did not criticize that decision.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March
23, 2016 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned,
was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash
tags)
Unlike Gene, and
others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything, I actually am
with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a magnificent job,
and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I
can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm very proud of
him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so respectful to all of us
in how he did things. To his credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee
a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart that he truly, truly
does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a lot of you all may
think, or believe.
He's not burnt
out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left nameless, who called
me at the phone number listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking
me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned out. For the record,
let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to this person more if
the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech
support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go
ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which explains everything of
his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have no issue talking to
others, including this member both as a friend, and as a business related
thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business hours or not.
That really put me in a very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put
on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly,
and be taken as being rude, but I neither wanted to hold back and not
say how I felt about things.
I'm just a member of
the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I put my work phone
number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that people could call me
about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be
frankly.
My point is, if
Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't you think he
probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog? He posted
that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just ignore it,
then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask questions
later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my
problem.
Again, sorry to be so
brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say something before this
got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for
having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect for them.
---
Christopher
Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 22,
2016 12:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying
to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are
very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I think that another
point is that they also need to be respected by the majority of the list
members where they will serve, and that's where the on list voting will
help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater the chance that
cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a smooth
one.
Thank you, Joseph,
for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list, over the past three
years.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 21,
2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up:
moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the
following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person’s
name as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn’t about head
moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer
Jaber):
1.
Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2.
Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the past
three years or more.
3.
Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.
4.
Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the face of
adversity (especially during arbitration hearing
proceedings).
5.
Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this forum
when making list-wide decisions.
6.
Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.
7.
Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV Access
and other NVDA developers.
8.
Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA release
announcements in a timely manner.
9.
Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10.
Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving
members.
11.
Having the servant’s attitude (to serve, not to be
served).
12.
Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list
and the public.
13.
Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in
the country a candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, “look, these requirements are too
hard.” I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other
moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of
this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself.
Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted
(applications will be accepted until early April, and election will be held
by end of April so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role
throughout May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is
because of the following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies
to associate moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
I kept thinking it is Michael even though I've seen
the name in various messages. I'm sorry about the error.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid hash tags)
Hi Gene, Not Michael Lee, it is Joseph Lee. Just minorly
correcting. However, on this note, I would just like to express my
wholehearted respect to Joseph for all the work he has
done. Thanks. On 3/23/16, Laz < laz@...>
wrote: > um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during
this > entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea but
perhaps > you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing
people for > absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread
Gene's post. > > Laz > > On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark
Gilland < clgilland07@...>
wrote: >> Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with
them. If >> anything, >> I actually am with Travis, AKA,
Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a >> magnificent job, and the
fact that he was man enough to step up and say, >> I >> don't
feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! >>
I'm >> very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being
so >> respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his
credit, I think we >> all >> need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a
break. I really can tell in my heart >> that >> he
truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what
a >> lot of you all may think, or believe. >> >> He's
not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left >>
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my
signature. >> >> He or she kept asking me over and over again
if I felt Joseph was burned >> out. For the record, let me just
say this. I had planned today to talk >> to >> this
person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... >>
he/she >> called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not
here to play >> the >> middle man in this, go ask Joseph
directly, go read his blog post which >> explains everything of his
reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I >> have >>
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and
as >> a >> business related thing, but don't! put me as the
middle man, off business >> hours or not. That really put me in a
very uncomfortable position >> yesterday. I felt put on the immediate
spot, as I didn't want to say >> anything privately or publicly, and be
taken as being rude, but I neither >> wanted to hold back and not
say how I felt about things. >> >> I'm just a member of the
list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because >> I >>
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so
that >> people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a
mod, nor an >> admin, >> nor wish to be
frankly. >> >> My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out,"
quote unquote, then don't >> you think he probably wouldn't have been
so willing to explain on his >> blog? >> He posted that link
for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people >> just >>
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now,
ask >> questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way.
Joseph gave you all >> a >> resource to look at, if you're
wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it >> if >> you're
wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up
for >> everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my
problem. >> >> Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about
this statement, but I had to >> say >> something before this
got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg >> the admins'
pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of >>
respect >> for them. >> --- >> Christopher
Gilland >> JAWS Certified, 2016. >> Training
Instructor. >> >> clgilland07@...>> Phone:
(704) 256-8010 Extension 401. >> ----- Original Message
----- >> From: Kwork >> To: nvda@groups.io>> Sent:
Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM >> Subject: [nvda]
qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash
tags) >> >> >> Joseph, those are very
good points on which to choose a new moderator. >> I >> think
that another point is that they also need to be respected by the >>
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where
the >> on >> list voting will help. The more that vote on this
type of topic, the >> greater >> the chance that cooler heads
will prevail, and the transition will be a >> smooth
one. >> Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done
with NVDA, and this >> list, >> over the past three
years. >> Travis >> ----- Original
Message ----- >> From: Joseph Lee >>
To: nvda@groups.io>>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM >> Subject: [nvda]
Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice >>
#AdminNotice >> >> >>
Hi, >> >> >> >> If you or
someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following >>
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name
as >> the >> candidate for the new moderator (note that this
isn't about head >> moderator >> position, and our current
head moderator is Nimer
Jaber): >> >> >> >>
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years
or more. >> >>
2. Have been a member of this forum and
other NVDA forums for the >> past three years or
more. >> >> 3.
Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a >>
crisis >> such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and
such. >> >> 4.
Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the >> face
of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing
proceedings). >> >>
5. Willingness to seek advice from
moderators and members of this >> forum when making list-wide
decisions. >> >>
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration
controls. >> >>
7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate
when talking to NV >> Access and other NVDA
developers. >> >>
8. Ability to deliver important news from NV
Access such as NVDA >> release announcements in a timely
manner. >> >>
9. Willingness to step down from position of
power when >> appropriate >> (recalled, on his or her own will
and so on). >> >> 10. Willingness to
shower members of this list and the wider NVDA >> community with love
and mercy, including to misbehaving members. >> >>
11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be
served). >> >> 12. Willingness to be
accountable and answerable to members of this >> list >> and
the public. >> >> 13. Must be at least
21 years of age or older (or considered an adult >> in >> the
country a candidate resides
in). >> >> >> >> Some of you may
say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe >> that, as a
public face of this list (alongside other moderators and >> members),
you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, >>
and >> in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus
only >> applications from serious candidates will be accepted
(applications will >> be >> accepted until early April, and
election will be held by end of April so >> the >> new
moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout
May). >> >> >> >> Thank
you. >> >>
Cheers, >> >>
Joseph >> >> P.S. The reason for making these
requirements tough is because of the >> following blog
post: >> >> >> http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw>> >>
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to
associate >> moderators as well. Good
luck. >> >> >> > > > -- >
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones, >
Bluetooth devices, and accessories > http://www.talkingmp3players.com/>
Email: laz@...>
Phone: 727-498-0121 > Skype: lazmesa > Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa>
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr> >
> > -- Warm Regards Bhavya Shah Using NVDA
(Non Visual Desktop Access) free and open source screen reader for Microsoft
Windows To download a copy of the free screen reader NVDA, please visit http://www.nvaccess.org/Using Google
Talkback on Motorolla G second generation Lollipop 5.0.2 Reach me through the
following means: Mobile: +91 7506221750 E-mail id: bhavya.shah125@...Skype id
: bhavya.09
|
|
|
Expressing respect is fine. That still
doesn't mean that an election is the way to select a moderator nor that
disagreement should not be expressed. Respect should not impede criticism
offered in the proper spirit.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid hash tags)
Hi Gene, Not Michael Lee, it is Joseph Lee. Just minorly
correcting. However, on this note, I would just like to express my
wholehearted respect to Joseph for all the work he has
done. Thanks. On 3/23/16, Laz < laz@...>
wrote: > um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during
this > entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea but
perhaps > you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing
people for > absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread
Gene's post. > > Laz > > On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark
Gilland < clgilland07@...>
wrote: >> Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with
them. If >> anything, >> I actually am with Travis, AKA,
Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a >> magnificent job, and the
fact that he was man enough to step up and say, >> I >> don't
feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! >>
I'm >> very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being
so >> respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his
credit, I think we >> all >> need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a
break. I really can tell in my heart >> that >> he
truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what
a >> lot of you all may think, or believe. >> >> He's
not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left >>
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my
signature. >> >> He or she kept asking me over and over again
if I felt Joseph was burned >> out. For the record, let me just
say this. I had planned today to talk >> to >> this
person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... >>
he/she >> called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not
here to play >> the >> middle man in this, go ask Joseph
directly, go read his blog post which >> explains everything of his
reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I >> have >>
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and
as >> a >> business related thing, but don't! put me as the
middle man, off business >> hours or not. That really put me in a
very uncomfortable position >> yesterday. I felt put on the immediate
spot, as I didn't want to say >> anything privately or publicly, and be
taken as being rude, but I neither >> wanted to hold back and not
say how I felt about things. >> >> I'm just a member of the
list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because >> I >>
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so
that >> people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a
mod, nor an >> admin, >> nor wish to be
frankly. >> >> My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out,"
quote unquote, then don't >> you think he probably wouldn't have been
so willing to explain on his >> blog? >> He posted that link
for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people >> just >>
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now,
ask >> questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way.
Joseph gave you all >> a >> resource to look at, if you're
wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it >> if >> you're
wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up
for >> everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my
problem. >> >> Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about
this statement, but I had to >> say >> something before this
got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg >> the admins'
pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of >>
respect >> for them. >> --- >> Christopher
Gilland >> JAWS Certified, 2016. >> Training
Instructor. >> >> clgilland07@...>> Phone:
(704) 256-8010 Extension 401. >> ----- Original Message
----- >> From: Kwork >> To: nvda@groups.io>> Sent:
Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM >> Subject: [nvda]
qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash
tags) >> >> >> Joseph, those are very
good points on which to choose a new moderator. >> I >> think
that another point is that they also need to be respected by the >>
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where
the >> on >> list voting will help. The more that vote on this
type of topic, the >> greater >> the chance that cooler heads
will prevail, and the transition will be a >> smooth
one. >> Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done
with NVDA, and this >> list, >> over the past three
years. >> Travis >> ----- Original
Message ----- >> From: Joseph Lee >>
To: nvda@groups.io>>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM >> Subject: [nvda]
Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice >>
#AdminNotice >> >> >>
Hi, >> >> >> >> If you or
someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following >>
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name
as >> the >> candidate for the new moderator (note that this
isn't about head >> moderator >> position, and our current
head moderator is Nimer
Jaber): >> >> >> >>
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years
or more. >> >>
2. Have been a member of this forum and
other NVDA forums for the >> past three years or
more. >> >> 3.
Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a >>
crisis >> such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and
such. >> >> 4.
Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the >> face
of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing
proceedings). >> >>
5. Willingness to seek advice from
moderators and members of this >> forum when making list-wide
decisions. >> >>
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration
controls. >> >>
7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate
when talking to NV >> Access and other NVDA
developers. >> >>
8. Ability to deliver important news from NV
Access such as NVDA >> release announcements in a timely
manner. >> >>
9. Willingness to step down from position of
power when >> appropriate >> (recalled, on his or her own will
and so on). >> >> 10. Willingness to
shower members of this list and the wider NVDA >> community with love
and mercy, including to misbehaving members. >> >>
11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be
served). >> >> 12. Willingness to be
accountable and answerable to members of this >> list >> and
the public. >> >> 13. Must be at least
21 years of age or older (or considered an adult >> in >> the
country a candidate resides
in). >> >> >> >> Some of you may
say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe >> that, as a
public face of this list (alongside other moderators and >> members),
you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, >>
and >> in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus
only >> applications from serious candidates will be accepted
(applications will >> be >> accepted until early April, and
election will be held by end of April so >> the >> new
moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout
May). >> >> >> >> Thank
you. >> >>
Cheers, >> >>
Joseph >> >> P.S. The reason for making these
requirements tough is because of the >> following blog
post: >> >> >> http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw>> >>
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to
associate >> moderators as well. Good
luck. >> >> >> > > > -- >
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones, >
Bluetooth devices, and accessories > http://www.talkingmp3players.com/>
Email: laz@...>
Phone: 727-498-0121 > Skype: lazmesa > Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa>
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr> >
> > -- Warm Regards Bhavya Shah Using NVDA
(Non Visual Desktop Access) free and open source screen reader for Microsoft
Windows To download a copy of the free screen reader NVDA, please visit http://www.nvaccess.org/Using Google
Talkback on Motorolla G second generation Lollipop 5.0.2 Reach me through the
following means: Mobile: +91 7506221750 E-mail id: bhavya.shah125@...Skype id
: bhavya.09
|
|
|
Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
No need to apologise, bro. It's all
good.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 1:33
PM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda]
qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
I kept thinking it is Michael even though I've
seen the name in various messages. I'm sorry about the
error.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a
list (stupid hash tags)
Hi Gene,
Not Michael Lee, it is Joseph Lee.
Just minorly
correcting.
However, on this note, I would just like to express my
wholehearted
respect to Joseph for all the work he has
done.
Thanks.
On 3/23/16, Laz <laz@...>
wrote:
> um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during
this
> entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea but
perhaps
> you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing
people for
> absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread
Gene's post.
>
> Laz
>
> On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark
Gilland <clgilland07@...>
wrote:
>> Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with
them. If
>> anything,
>> I actually am with Travis,
AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
>> magnificent job,
and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say,
>>
I
>> don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of
courage!
>> I'm
>> very proud of him for being so honest and
so up front, yet being so
>> respectful to all of us in how he did
things. To his credit, I think we
>> all
>> need to
give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart
>>
that
>> he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest,
contrary to what a
>> lot of you all may think, or
believe.
>>
>> He's not burnt out. I had a member
yesterday who will be 100% left
>> nameless, who called me at the
phone number listed in my signature.
>>
>> He or she kept
asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
>>
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to
talk
>> to
>> this person more if the questions continued,
but honestly... look...
>> he/she
>> called me on my tech
support line, and when I said I'm not here to play
>> the
>>
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post
which
>> explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't
apparently do so. I
>> have
>> no issue talking to
others, including this member both as a friend, and as
>>
a
>> business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off
business
>> hours or not. That really put me in a very
uncomfortable position
>> yesterday. I felt put on the immediate
spot, as I didn't want to say
>> anything privately or publicly, and
be taken as being rude, but I neither
>> wanted to hold back
and not say how I felt about things.
>>
>> I'm just a member
of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because
>>
I
>> put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so,
so that
>> people could call me about list admin duties. I'm
not a mod, nor an
>> admin,
>> nor wish to be
frankly.
>>
>> My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt
out," quote unquote, then don't
>> you think he probably wouldn't
have been so willing to explain on his
>> blog?
>> He posted
that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people
>>
just
>> ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and
kill now, ask
>> questions later principle. It shouldn't be
that way. Joseph gave you all
>> a
>> resource to look
at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it
>>
if
>> you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to
clear this up for
>> everyone on the list. It's not my
responsibility, nor my problem.
>>
>> Again, sorry to be so
brutally direct about this statement, but I had to
>> say
>>
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I
beg
>> the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my
utmost of
>> respect
>> for them.
>>
---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified,
2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>>
>> clgilland07@...
>>
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
>> ----- Original
Message -----
>> From: Kwork
>> To:
nvda@groups.io
>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM
>> Subject: [nvda]
qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash
tags)
>>
>>
>> Joseph, those are very
good points on which to choose a new moderator.
>> I
>>
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by
the
>> majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's
where the
>> on
>> list voting will help. The more that vote
on this type of topic, the
>> greater
>> the chance that
cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
>> smooth
one.
>> Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done
with NVDA, and this
>> list,
>> over the past three
years.
>> Travis
>> ----- Original
Message -----
>> From: Joseph Lee
>>
To: nvda@groups.io
>>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
>> Subject: [nvda]
Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
>>
#AdminNotice
>>
>>
>>
Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you or
someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
>>
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name
as
>> the
>> candidate for the new moderator (note that this
isn't about head
>> moderator
>> position, and our current
head moderator is Nimer
Jaber):
>>
>>
>>
>>
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years
or more.
>>
>>
2. Have been a member of this forum and
other NVDA forums for the
>> past three years or
more.
>>
>>
3. Ability to communicate well, especially
when confronting a
>> crisis
>> such as misbehaving members,
off-topic messages and such.
>>
>>
4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with
humility) even in the
>> face of adversity (especially during
arbitration hearing proceedings).
>>
>>
5. Willingness to seek advice from
moderators and members of this
>> forum when making list-wide
decisions.
>>
>>
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO
administration controls.
>>
>>
7. Ability to serve as a user-side
advocate when talking to NV
>> Access and other NVDA
developers.
>>
>>
8. Ability to deliver important news from
NV Access such as NVDA
>> release announcements in a timely
manner.
>>
>>
9. Willingness to step down from position
of power when
>> appropriate
>> (recalled, on his or her own
will and so on).
>>
>> 10.
Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
>>
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving
members.
>>
>> 11. Having the
servant's attitude (to serve, not to be
served).
>>
>> 12. Willingness to be
accountable and answerable to members of this
>> list
>> and
the public.
>>
>> 13. Must be at
least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult
>>
in
>> the country a candidate resides
in).
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of you
may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
>> that,
as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
>>
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this
list,
>> and
>> in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen
reader itself. Thus only
>> applications from serious candidates will
be accepted (applications will
>> be
>> accepted until early
April, and election will be held by end of April so
>>
the
>> new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout
May).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank
you.
>>
>>
Cheers,
>>
>>
Joseph
>>
>> P.S. The reason for making these
requirements tough is because of the
>> following blog
post:
>>
>>
>> http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
>>
>>
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to
associate
>> moderators as well. Good
luck.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
>
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
> http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
>
Email: laz@...
>
Phone: 727-498-0121
> Skype: lazmesa
> Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
>
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr
>
>
>
>
--
Warm Regards
Bhavya Shah
Using NVDA
(Non Visual Desktop Access) free and open source screen
reader for
Microsoft Windows
To download a copy of the free screen reader NVDA, please
visit
http://www.nvaccess.org/
Using Google
Talkback on Motorolla G second generation Lollipop 5.0.2
Reach me through
the following means:
Mobile: +91 7506221750
E-mail id: bhavya.shah125@...
Skype
id : bhavya.09
|
|
|
laura cornwell <lauracornwell1@...>
Is your server still down? and I would like to talk to you bothas a
friend please this isso nice that you are willing to help where you
can.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 3/23/2016 12:38 PM, Christopher-Mark
Gilland wrote:
No need to apologise, bro. It's
all good.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23,
2016 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: Very
concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid
hash tags)
I kept thinking it is Michael
even though I've seen the name in various messages. I'm
sorry about the error.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda]
qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Hi Gene,
Not Michael Lee, it is Joseph Lee.
Just minorly correcting.
However, on this note, I would just like to express my
wholehearted
respect to Joseph for all the work he has done.
Thanks.
On 3/23/16, Laz <laz@...>
wrote:
> um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during
this
> entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea
but perhaps
> you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing
people for
> absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread
Gene's post.
>
> Laz
>
> On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
wrote:
>> Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur
with them. If
>> anything,
>> I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one.
Joseph has done a
>> magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to
step up and say,
>> I
>> don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took
lots of courage!
>> I'm
>> very proud of him for being so honest and so up front,
yet being so
>> respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his
credit, I think we
>> all
>> need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can
tell in my heart
>> that
>> he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest,
contrary to what a
>> lot of you all may think, or believe.
>>
>> He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will
be 100% left
>> nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in
my signature.
>>
>> He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt
Joseph was burned
>> out. For the record, let me just say this. I had
planned today to talk
>> to
>> this person more if the questions continued, but
honestly... look...
>> he/she
>> called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm
not here to play
>> the
>> middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his
blog post which
>> explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't
apparently do so. I
>> have
>> no issue talking to others, including this member both
as a friend, and as
>> a
>> business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle
man, off business
>> hours or not. That really put me in a very
uncomfortable position
>> yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I
didn't want to say
>> anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being
rude, but I neither
>> wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about
things.
>>
>> I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at
that. Just because
>> I
>> put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I
did so, so that
>> people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not
a mod, nor an
>> admin,
>> nor wish to be frankly.
>>
>> My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote
unquote, then don't
>> you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to
explain on his
>> blog?
>> He posted that link for a reason, and that reason
wasn't to have people
>> just
>> ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and
kill now, ask
>> questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way.
Joseph gave you all
>> a
>> resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for
goodness sake, use it
>> if
>> you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to
clear this up for
>> everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor
my problem.
>>
>> Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this
statement, but I had to
>> say
>> something before this got more out of hand than it
already has, and I beg
>> the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with
my utmost of
>> respect
>> for them.
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>>
>> clgilland07@...
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kwork
>> To: nvda@groups.io
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM
>> Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid
hash tags)
>>
>>
>> Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose
a new moderator.
>> I
>> think that another point is that they also need to be
respected by the
>> majority of the list members where they will serve, and
that's where the
>> on
>> list voting will help. The more that vote on this type
of topic, the
>> greater
>> the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the
transition will be a
>> smooth one.
>> Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with
NVDA, and this
>> list,
>> over the past three years.
>> Travis
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joseph Lee
>> To: nvda@groups.io
>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
>> Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications
#ModNotice
>> #AdminNotice
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of
the following
>> requirements, then please put forth your name or that
person's name as
>> the
>> candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't
about head
>> moderator
>> position, and our current head moderator is Nimer
Jaber):
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or
more.
>>
>> 2. Have been a member of this forum and other
NVDA forums for the
>> past three years or more.
>>
>> 3. Ability to communicate well, especially when
confronting a
>> crisis
>> such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and
such.
>>
>> 4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with
humility) even in the
>> face of adversity (especially during arbitration
hearing proceedings).
>>
>> 5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators
and members of this
>> forum when making list-wide decisions.
>>
>> 6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration
controls.
>>
>> 7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate
when talking to NV
>> Access and other NVDA developers.
>>
>> 8. Ability to deliver important news from NV
Access such as NVDA
>> release announcements in a timely manner.
>>
>> 9. Willingness to step down from position of
power when
>> appropriate
>> (recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
>>
>> 10. Willingness to shower members of this list and
the wider NVDA
>> community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving
members.
>>
>> 11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to
be served).
>>
>> 12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to
members of this
>> list
>> and the public.
>>
>> 13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or
considered an adult
>> in
>> the country a candidate resides in).
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are
too hard." I believe
>> that, as a public face of this list (alongside other
moderators and
>> members), you are responsible for the fate and
reputation of this list,
>> and
>> in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader
itself. Thus only
>> applications from serious candidates will be accepted
(applications will
>> be
>> accepted until early April, and election will be held
by end of April so
>> the
>> new moderator can adjust to his or her new role
throughout May).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough
is because of the
>> following blog post:
>>
>>
>> http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
>>
>> Although the post talks about head moderators, it
applies to associate
>> moderators as well. Good luck.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players,
Accessible phones,
> Bluetooth devices, and accessories
> http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
> Email: laz@...
> Phone: 727-498-0121
> Skype: lazmesa
> Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
> Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr
>
>
>
>
--
Warm Regards
Bhavya Shah
Using NVDA (Non Visual Desktop Access) free and open source
screen
reader for Microsoft Windows
To download a copy of the free screen reader NVDA, please visit
http://www.nvaccess.org/
Using Google Talkback on Motorolla G second generation Lollipop
5.0.2
Reach me through the following means:
Mobile: +91 7506221750
E-mail id: bhavya.shah125@...
Skype id : bhavya.09
|
|
|
I'm glad you clarified the issue.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid hash tags)
Hi Gene and
others,
I did record an address that I
shall post a link to shortly.
Perhaps I may have used a wrong
word: when I talk about change of generation, what I really meant was the next
group of enthusiasts. Sorry about the confusion.
As for concerns that I’ll be
leaving this community: resignation doesn’t mean departure. I’ll still be around
to answer questions, participating as a member and one of the code contributors
to NVDA screen reader.
As for hashtag issue people were
getting: all fixed. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Cheers,
Joseph
From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Sent:
Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:17 AM
To:
nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to
manage a list (stupid hash tags)
I did not and I went
out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing Michael lee for stepping
down. I criticized the reasons he gave and pointed out that that reason
implies that younger members might be considered for the position while older
people might not be because they are not and cannot be part of the generational
shift. If most people resigned from things because they were in their late
twenties or early thirties, we would lose most of the experience and knowledge
that comes with age. If most of us resigned because we were worried about
who would carry on if some mishap happened to us, then everyone would have to
resign from everything because a mishap can happen to anyone. That's why
there are procedures that institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death
or disability.
I also said that I
appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the list.
My main criticism was
to the proposal to elect the next moderator.
If Michael Lee wants to
resign, that's his decision. I did not criticize that decision.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 23,
2016 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Very concerned,
was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash
tags)
Unlike Gene, and
others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything, I actually am
with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a magnificent job,
and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I can
do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm very proud of him for
being so honest and so up front, yet being so respectful to all of us in how he
did things. To his credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a
break. I really can tell in my heart that he truly, truly does care, and
is trying his darndest, contrary to what a lot of you all may think, or
believe.
He's not burnt
out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left nameless, who called
me at the phone number listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking
me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned out. For the record,
let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to this person more if
the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech
support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go
ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which explains everything of his
reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have no issue talking to
others, including this member both as a friend, and as a business related thing,
but don't! put me as the middle man, off business hours or not. That
really put me in a very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put on the
immediate spot, as I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly, and be
taken as being rude, but I neither wanted to hold back and not say how I
felt about things.
I'm just a member of
the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I put my work phone
number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that people could call me about
list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be
frankly.
My point is, if Joseph
really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't you think he probably
wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog? He posted that link
for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just ignore it, then later
wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask questions later
principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a resource
to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if you're
wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for everyone
on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so
brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say something before this got
more out of hand than it already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for having to
say this publicly with my utmost of respect for them.
---
Christopher
Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training
Instructor.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 22,
2016 12:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to
manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are
very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I think that another
point is that they also need to be respected by the majority of the list
members where they will serve, and that's where the on list voting will help.
The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater the chance that cooler
heads will prevail, and the transition will be a smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph,
for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list, over the past three
years.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 21,
2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up:
moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the
following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person’s name
as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn’t about head
moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer
Jaber):
1.
Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2.
Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the past
three years or more.
3.
Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis such
as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.
4.
Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the face of
adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).
5.
Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this forum
when making list-wide decisions.
6.
Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.
7.
Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV Access and
other NVDA developers.
8.
Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA release
announcements in a timely manner.
9.
Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10.
Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA community
with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.
11.
Having the servant’s attitude (to serve, not to be
served).
12.
Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list
and the public.
13.
Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in
the country a candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, “look, these requirements are too
hard.” I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other
moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of
this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself.
Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications
will be accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April
so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout
May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is
because of the following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies
to associate moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
Laz email me off list at:
lino_and_rico@windstream
Thanks.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 3/23/2016 10:33 AM, Laz wrote: um, Chris, no one has said anything bad about Joseph during this
entire time. I have no idea where you're getting that idea but perhaps
you should read things twice before you start bad mouthing people for
absolutely no reason at all. At least go back and reread Gene's post.
Laz
On 3/23/16, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@gmail.com> wrote:
Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything,
I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I
don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm
very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so
respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think we all
need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart that
he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a
lot of you all may think, or believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to
this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she
called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which
explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as a
business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business
hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position
yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say
anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither
wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that
people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin,
nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't
you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog?
He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask
questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg
the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect
for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the on
list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater
the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list,
over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
To: nvda@groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as the
candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head moderator
position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the
past three years or more.
3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.
4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).
5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.
7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access and other NVDA developers.
8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.
9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.
11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served).
12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list
and the public.
13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in
the country a candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, and
in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only
applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will be
accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so the
new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the
following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate
moderators as well. Good luck.
|
|
|
Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
I did not read it like that at all. The point is it would be great in my organisation if I could get volunteers who were young to help out, but you can't.
Besides Joseph is hardly old, I took it to mean that people should not stay in place for ever and others should have a chance. If I had the time and the actual ability, I'd do it. I used to do moderation back in the 1980s before the Internet, when it was all on a viewdata platform, but I was younger,the world was simpler, I could see reasonably and nobody knew the right way back then.
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> To: <nvda@groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing Michael lee for stepping down. I criticized the reasons he gave and pointed out that that reason implies that younger members might be considered for the position while older people might not be because they are not and cannot be part of the generational shift. If most people resigned from things because they were in their late twenties or early thirties, we would lose most of the experience and knowledge that comes with age. If most of us resigned because we were worried about who would carry on if some mishap happened to us, then everyone would have to resign from everything because a mishap can happen to anyone. That's why there are procedures that institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or disability. I also said that I appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the list. My main criticism was to the proposal to elect the next moderator. If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his decision. I did not criticize that decision. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher-Mark Gilland Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM To: nvda@groups.io Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything, I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think we all need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart that he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a lot of you all may think, or believe. He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature. He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as a business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things. I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin, nor wish to be frankly. My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog? He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem. Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect for them. --- Christopher Gilland JAWS Certified, 2016. Training Instructor. clgilland07@gmail.com Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kwork To: nvda@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the on list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a smooth one. Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list, over the past three years. Travis ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Lee To: nvda@groups.io Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice #AdminNotice Hi, If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as the candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head moderator position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber): 1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more. 2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the past three years or more. 3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such. 4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the face of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings). 5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this forum when making list-wide decisions. 6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls. 7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV Access and other NVDA developers. 8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA release announcements in a timely manner. 9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate (recalled, on his or her own will and so on). 10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members. 11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served). 12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list and the public. 13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in the country a candidate resides in). Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, and in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will be accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so the new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May). Thank you. Cheers, Joseph P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the following blog post: http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.html?spref=tw Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate moderators as well. Good luck.
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Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
Yes I sent you the mail as it was confusing. Incidentally as these are called hashtags, presumably due to the # sign, the why is nvda still calling this number?
Brian
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> To: <nvda@groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags) Hi Gene and others,
I did record an address that I shall post a link to shortly.
Perhaps I may have used a wrong word: when I talk about change of
generation, what I really meant was the next group of enthusiasts. Sorry
about the confusion.
As for concerns that I'll be leaving this community: resignation doesn't
mean departure. I'll still be around to answer questions, participating as a
member and one of the code contributors to NVDA screen reader.
As for hashtag issue people were getting: all fixed. Sorry for the
inconvenience.
Cheers,
Joseph
From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@ripco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:17 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid
hash tags)
I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing
Michael lee for stepping down. I criticized the reasons he gave and pointed
out that that reason implies that younger members might be considered for
the position while older people might not be because they are not and cannot
be part of the generational shift. If most people resigned from things
because they were in their late twenties or early thirties, we would lose
most of the experience and knowledge that comes with age. If most of us
resigned because we were worried about who would carry on if some mishap
happened to us, then everyone would have to resign from everything because a
mishap can happen to anyone. That's why there are procedures that
institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or disability.
I also said that I appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the list.
My main criticism was to the proposal to elect the next moderator.
If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his decision. I did not criticize
that decision.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher-Mark Gilland <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid
hash tags)
Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If anything,
I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and say, I
don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage! I'm
very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so
respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think we all
need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart that
he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a
lot of you all may think, or believe.
He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.
He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to talk to
this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look... he/she
called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to play the
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which
explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so. I have
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend, and as a
business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business
hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position
yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say
anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither
wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things.
I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just because I
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that
people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an admin,
nor wish to be frankly.
My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't
you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his blog?
He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have people just
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask
questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you all a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use it if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.
Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had to say
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg
the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of respect
for them.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
clgilland07@gmail.com <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>
To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)
Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where the on
list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the greater
the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
smooth one.
Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list,
over the past three years.
Travis
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice #AdminNotice
Hi,
If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as the
candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head moderator
position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):
1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.
2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for the past
three years or more.
3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.
4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the face
of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).
5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.
6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.
7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV Access
and other NVDA developers.
8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.
9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).
10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.
11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served).
12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this list
and the public.
13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an adult in
the country a candidate resides in).
Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this list, and
in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only
applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications will be
accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April so the
new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph
P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the
following blog post:
http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.h
tml?spref=tw
Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate
moderators as well. Good luck.
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