On Intentionally Marking Any Groups.io Message as Spam - DON'T #adminnotice


 

Hello All,

Before I begin, let me say clearly that I do understand that it is possible that an e-mail service provider may mark a Groups.io message as spam incorrectly, and when this happens, I implore you to contact your provider and tell them that they need to stop doing so.  No Groups.io message can be spam, by definition, because you must subscribe to receive it.  No subscription-only messages can be spam, because spam is unsolicited and unwanted email.  So if that's happened, let them know that's not OK.

Now, on to the central point, which is about a member of any Groups.io actually marking a message as spam/junk because they don't like the content, are bored with a long topic, or similar:  DON'T DO IT.  When you mark a message, any message, as spam, this is not just dumping it in to the spam folder in your e-mail client, but starts a feedback cascade where that information is shared with your e-mail service provider and where that message is added for possible inclusion for spam matching criteria, and these get shared among email services.  If only a few people report a Groups.io message (or that from any other subscription service) as spam in rapid succession, it can end up in all messages from that service being blocked by multiple email providers.

Groups.io gives you the ability to exquisitely control the messages you receive, and if you want to stop content for a single topic use the Mute this Topic option to do that.

The above is triggered because I, as a member of group administration, received the following message from Groups.io:
----
Subscriber was removed for marking a message as spam

This is to notify you that xxx@... has been unsubscribed from your group nvda@nvda.groups.io because message Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read was marked as spam. Note that this may have been done by their email service provider, not by the individual member personally. They've been given a link that lets them quickly resubscribe, in case this was an error.

If you have any questions, please visit our help center.

----

You will often end up being unsubscribed from a group if you mark any message as spam, because anyone getting messages should know that the only way they should be getting them is because they chose to subscribe.

So, please, do not ever intentionally mark a message from Groups.io or any subscription-only email service as spam, and if your email service does this automatically, please contact their support and tell them to remove Groups.io from their spam blacklist, since anyone must subscribe to get any Groups.io message.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

Well itt may be some certain words.

Even google marks some of these messages as spam from time to time.

I always clear the junk folders daily and check.

Mark a message as spam enough times or not and google should train itself.



On 7/01/2021 3:26 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
Hello All,

Before I begin, let me say clearly that I do understand that it is possible that an e-mail service provider may mark a Groups.io message as spam incorrectly, and when this happens, I implore you to contact your provider and tell them that they need to stop doing so.  No Groups.io message can be spam, by definition, because you must subscribe to receive it.  No subscription-only messages can be spam, because spam is unsolicited and unwanted email.  So if that's happened, let them know that's not OK.

Now, on to the central point, which is about a member of any Groups.io actually marking a message as spam/junk because they don't like the content, are bored with a long topic, or similar:  DON'T DO IT.  When you mark a message, any message, as spam, this is not just dumping it in to the spam folder in your e-mail client, but starts a feedback cascade where that information is shared with your e-mail service provider and where that message is added for possible inclusion for spam matching criteria, and these get shared among email services.  If only a few people report a Groups.io message (or that from any other subscription service) as spam in rapid succession, it can end up in all messages from that service being blocked by multiple email providers.

Groups.io gives you the ability to exquisitely control the messages you receive, and if you want to stop content for a single topic use the Mute this Topic option to do that.

The above is triggered because I, as a member of group administration, received the following message from Groups.io:
----
Subscriber was removed for marking a message as spam

This is to notify you that xxx@... has been unsubscribed from your group nvda@nvda.groups.io because message Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read was marked as spam. Note that this may have been done by their email service provider, not by the individual member personally. They've been given a link that lets them quickly resubscribe, in case this was an error.

If you have any questions, please visit our help center.

----

You will often end up being unsubscribed from a group if you mark any message as spam, because anyone getting messages should know that the only way they should be getting them is because they chose to subscribe.

So, please, do not ever intentionally mark a message from Groups.io or any subscription-only email service as spam, and if your email service does this automatically, please contact their support and tell them to remove Groups.io from their spam blacklist, since anyone must subscribe to get any Groups.io message.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

Shaun,

           Please, for the love of heaven, pay attention to what I, and others, write.

           I anonymized the message, but it's almost certain that someone who is a member of this group used the mark as spam option of their webmail or email client.  No one should, under any circumstances, for any message, ever do that for a message that they have received from a service they subscribed to.  Unsubscribe, or mute the topic, but do NOT mark it spam.

            I suggest you read up on Email Feedback Loops and the havoc they can, and do, wreak.  I would like to prevent that for our members, thanks very much.  Your contention about marking something as spam often enough is just fine, if the thing is actually spam.  But if it isn't, that's another story.  No message from groups.io is spam because you asked for it, directly, by subscribing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

I don't mark messzages myself, I go through and unmark messages as spam, all I was saying is that some filters look for words which could be.

Its hard to know what will trigger the filter and I have noticed its not going to do it constantly.

I have had messages marked as spam then more from the same poster not marked but this hardly happens at least with gmail so the filters are getting better.



On 7/01/2021 6:00 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
Shaun,

           Please, for the love of heaven, pay attention to what I, and others, write.

           I anonymized the message, but it's almost certain that someone who is a member of this group used the mark as spam option of their webmail or email client.  No one should, under any circumstances, for any message, ever do that for a message that they have received from a service they subscribed to.  Unsubscribe, or mute the topic, but do NOT mark it spam.

            I suggest you read up on Email Feedback Loops and the havoc they can, and do, wreak.  I would like to prevent that for our members, thanks very much.  Your contention about marking something as spam often enough is just fine, if the thing is actually spam.  But if it isn't, that's another story.  No message from groups.io is spam because you asked for it, directly, by subscribing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Bob Cavanaugh
 

Shaun,
You are absolutely right. While it hasn't happened to me on this
group, another list I'm on has a couple members who post from Yahoo
and iCloud email addresses. While I always move them to my inbox, it
seems that 90% of the time, those messages still end up in my spam
folder.

On 1/6/21, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't mark messzages myself, I go through and unmark messages as spam,
all I was saying is that some filters look for words which could be.

Its hard to know what will trigger the filter and I have noticed its not
going to do it constantly.

I have had messages marked as spam then more from the same poster not
marked but this hardly happens at least with gmail so the filters are
getting better.



On 7/01/2021 6:00 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
Shaun,

           Please, for the love of heaven, pay attention to what I,
and others, write.

           I anonymized the message, but it's almost certain that
someone who is a member of this group used the mark as spam option of
their webmail or email client.  No one should, under any
circumstances, for any message, ever do that for a message that they
have received from a service they subscribed to. Unsubscribe, or mute
the topic, but do NOT mark it spam.

            I suggest you read up on Email Feedback Loops
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=email+feedback+loop> and the havoc they
can, and do, wreak.  I would like to prevent that for our members,
thanks very much. Your contention about marking something as spam
often enough is just fine, if the thing is actually spam.  But if it
isn't, that's another story.  No message from groups.io is spam
because you asked for it, directly, by subscribing.
--

Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of
disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel






 

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 02:00 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
While I always move them to my inbox, it seems that 90% of the time, those messages still end up in my spam
folder.
-
If they are from an e-mail list service, regardless of the individual user's chosen e-mail service provider, then I'd advise you to whitelist that e-mail list service domain/address.  I can't tell you exactly how to do this because it's directly dependent on what email client or webmail you're using.  Virtually all have a whitelisting mechanism.

Generally providers eventually learn if you keep unmarking them as spam (which is what moving to an inbox from spam most often does, but if you have an unmark as spam mechanism use it, as that will definitely do both) but there are some who do not, and whitelisting overrides whatever automatic spam marking they might have done.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Arlene
 

I do that as well. Some of the NVDA mail goes to the spam folder. I use Gmail because then I don’t have to change my e-mail address all the time. Gmail I won’t have to do it after I change isps.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: January 7, 2021 3:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] On Intentionally Marking Any Groups.io Message as Spam - DON'T #adminnotice

 

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 02:00 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

While I always move them to my inbox, it seems that 90% of the time, those messages still end up in my spam
folder.

-
If they are from an e-mail list service, regardless of the individual user's chosen e-mail service provider, then I'd advise you to whitelist that e-mail list service domain/address.  I can't tell you exactly how to do this because it's directly dependent on what email client or webmail you're using.  Virtually all have a whitelisting mechanism.

Generally providers eventually learn if you keep unmarking them as spam (which is what moving to an inbox from spam most often does, but if you have an unmark as spam mechanism use it, as that will definitely do both) but there are some who do not, and whitelisting overrides whatever automatic spam marking they might have done.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

 


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I've had to mark some of the messages from the group platforms I'm on as "not spam", because they end up in the spam folder.  I've never marked them as spam.

Thanks,

Louise