Double Tone


Andrea Sherry
 

What is this double tone thingy which has appeared on my system since the introduction of the betas?

Andrea


Chris Smart
 

You mean the descending tritone, a piano sound that plays 5th octave C then 4th octave F-sharp?

On 2021-01-09 6:15 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
What is this double tone thingy which has appeared on my system since the introduction of the betas?

Andrea





 

You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Tyler Spivey
 

That's the error tone. If you look in the log viewer after it plays, you'll see what happened.

On 1/9/2021 3:25 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.
I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--
Brian -Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.
       ~ Brian Vogel


Gene
 

The tones indicate an error of some sort. The tones are enabled on betas so users are aware of when errors occur. They are disabled in production releases. Most of the time, such program errors don't affect the functioning of the program.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2021 5:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta. The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel


 

Hi,

Specifically, to help you report bugs to developers easily, as these tones indicate some sort of error.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

I really wish I knew "what sort of error."  Ninety-nine times out of one hundred I can see absolutely no difference from typical behavior, so it's unclear what's been identified as being off.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

Hi,

Typical errors can include, but are not limited to:

  • Python specific errors such as inability to load a module, syntax errors with either NVDA or an add-on, errors associated with data structures such as key/index/value error exceptions, resource error such as inability to open a URL.
  • Errors from external modules, either wxWidgets/wxPython or something else.
  • Recently, garbage handler messages while managing resources.

When an error tone is heard, as Tyler noted, pressing NVDA+F1 will open the log viewer, from where you can scroll up to read the last error associated with the tone (technically a traceback). We (developers) need the complete traceback from the last error to determine what’s going on so we can either resolve it from NVDA side or reported to add-on authors (in case of my add-ons, I can guarantee a fix in minutes once I identify a possible cause and test a fix live; I use alpha builds for this purpose, and I try my best to make my add-ons error-free as much as possible before NVDA betas are released).

Cheers,

joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 3:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

I really wish I knew "what sort of error."  Ninety-nine times out of one hundred I can see absolutely no difference from typical behavior, so it's unclear what's been identified as being off.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

As a former programmer, I hesitate to even suggest the following, as it is likely far, far more complicated than the previous descriptions lead me to believe it might be.

But if NVDA is detecting that an error has occurred, and what would be sent to the NVDA developers (or add-on developers), and all of that content comes from the log file working backward from current logged error to the last one to extract what's needed, could this not be automated as a function (or, perhaps) add-on for the beta itself?

Based on what's been described, which I understand may not be comprehensive, grabbing that traceback should be relatively straightforward programatically and would result in far more data for developers than relying on manual reporting would.

[Now, let the explanations about why the above is, in actuality, impractical, begin.  It just can't be this straightforward or someone would have done it.]
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Andrea Sherry
 

That's the one.

What is it?

On 10/01/2021 10:25 am, Chris Smart wrote:
You mean the descending tritone, a piano sound that plays 5th octave C then 4th octave F-sharp?



On 2021-01-09 6:15 p.m., Andrea Sherry wrote:
What is this double tone thingy which has appeared on my system since the introduction of the betas?

Andrea








Andrea Sherry
 

Thank you.

On 10/01/2021 10:25 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
You've actually answered your own question, kinda, sorta.  The only time I have had those double-tones is when I'm running a beta version, once something goes to the release candidate or actual release version those disappear.

I have to believe this is an intentional design element so that one knows that a beta is in use.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

Hi,

This will involve patching log handler module, specifically various log handler classes (NVDA uses Python’s logging facility for log output). Another thing to consider is that some users may set log level to “disabled”, in which only a brief startup message will be recorded. In general, patching NVDA’s built-in modules and functions by replacing a class or a function is discouraged as it can introduce headaches (compatibility issues among others; trust me, I went through it painfully recently with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on).

There used to be an add-on named Crash Hero that will be triggered automatically when NVDA restarts after a crash. This add-on will record crash information such as old log file (if it exists). This add-on did not survive Python 3 transition (speaking of NVDA’s logging facility, it took days to move that from 2 to 3 two years ago).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 4:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

As a former programmer, I hesitate to even suggest the following, as it is likely far, far more complicated than the previous descriptions lead me to believe it might be.

But if NVDA is detecting that an error has occurred, and what would be sent to the NVDA developers (or add-on developers), and all of that content comes from the log file working backward from current logged error to the last one to extract what's needed, could this not be automated as a function (or, perhaps) add-on for the beta itself?

Based on what's been described, which I understand may not be comprehensive, grabbing that traceback should be relatively straightforward programatically and would result in far more data for developers than relying on manual reporting would.

[Now, let the explanations about why the above is, in actuality, impractical, begin.  It just can't be this straightforward or someone would have done it.]
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

Joseph, I wander in that case if we should just wrip out nvda logging entirely and use a universal one, either cloud based, or some third party one established.

I never used crash heroe, but maybe we need to use something like that or some other way to handle things.



On 10/01/2021 2:39 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

This will involve patching log handler module, specifically various log handler classes (NVDA uses Python’s logging facility for log output). Another thing to consider is that some users may set log level to “disabled”, in which only a brief startup message will be recorded. In general, patching NVDA’s built-in modules and functions by replacing a class or a function is discouraged as it can introduce headaches (compatibility issues among others; trust me, I went through it painfully recently with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on).

There used to be an add-on named Crash Hero that will be triggered automatically when NVDA restarts after a crash. This add-on will record crash information such as old log file (if it exists). This add-on did not survive Python 3 transition (speaking of NVDA’s logging facility, it took days to move that from 2 to 3 two years ago).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 4:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Double Tone

 

As a former programmer, I hesitate to even suggest the following, as it is likely far, far more complicated than the previous descriptions lead me to believe it might be.

But if NVDA is detecting that an error has occurred, and what would be sent to the NVDA developers (or add-on developers), and all of that content comes from the log file working backward from current logged error to the last one to extract what's needed, could this not be automated as a function (or, perhaps) add-on for the beta itself?

Based on what's been described, which I understand may not be comprehensive, grabbing that traceback should be relatively straightforward programatically and would result in far more data for developers than relying on manual reporting would.

[Now, let the explanations about why the above is, in actuality, impractical, begin.  It just can't be this straightforward or someone would have done it.]
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel