muting


Neil Campbell <nrcampbell@...>
 

 

 

Hello Everyone

 

I am using NVDA with Windows 10 on a desk top computer, and suddenly lost the NVDA voice.  I tried to start NVDA again with control alt n which did not work, and also tried to start Windows Narrator which did not work too .  I thought I may have muted the sound, so pressed F7 which had no effect.  I got the assistance of a sighted person who said that there was a big cross through a speaker on the bottom of the screen which he clicked the mouse on and sound came back.  Is there any way I can turn the sound back on myself using quick keystrokes.  I have no sight at all. 

 

Neil

 

 


Gene
 

Do the following:
Issue the command Windows key r. Hold the Windows key and type r.
The run dialog opens.
Type sndvol and press enter.
The Windows volume control dialog will open.
Tab once. You are on the mute speakers button, though it presumably says unmute when the speakers are muted.
Press the space bar. Test with something like NVDA key t to read the title bar to see if you have speech.

Try this when you have speech to make sure things are set up as expected. Don't mute the speakers, in other words tab to see if you land on the button, then when you hear where you are, close the volume control dialog with alt f4. If you unmute sound in this way in the future, once you use space and get sound back, close the dialog with alt f4. There is no ok button and settings changes take immediate effect.

I would advise getting a cheap USB sound card, you can get them for less than 10 American dollars, for emergencies when you lose speech and can't get it back, which is unlikely but which may happen. Using the external sound card will give you speech until you solve the problem, assuming it is solvable by changing settings, which it likely will be. In case the problem is more serious, such as a hardware failure, you will have speech with no interruption in your use of the computer and can continue to use the external sound card.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Campbell
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 6:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] muting







Hello Everyone



I am using NVDA with Windows 10 on a desk top computer, and suddenly lost the NVDA voice. I tried to start NVDA again with control alt n which did not work, and also tried to start Windows Narrator which did not work too . I thought I may have muted the sound, so pressed F7 which had no effect. I got the assistance of a sighted person who said that there was a big cross through a speaker on the bottom of the screen which he clicked the mouse on and sound came back. Is there any way I can turn the sound back on myself using quick keystrokes. I have no sight at all.



Neil


 

Neil,

          Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

           This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

            Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Chris
 

Also the unmute addon for NVDA which can restore sound if muted or too low on NVDA restart

 

GitHub page

https://github.com/grisov/Unmute

 

download

https://github.com/grisov/Unmute/releases/download/v1.5/unmute-1.5.nvda-addon

 

 

 

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 10 January 2021 16:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting

 

Neil,

          Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

           This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

            Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 

 


Dan Beaver
 

Just a note here about something I noticed while reading Gene's post. 


While listening I heard him say to type S N D V O L and press enter.  But what I actually heard was tinvol not S N D V O L.  I am still frequently disgusted with how messy the pronunciation tables are for the different synths.  I use MS David by the way.


Dan Beaver


On 1/10/2021 7:44 AM, Gene wrote:
> Do the following: Issue the command Windows key r. Hold the Windows > key and type r. The run dialog opens. Type sndvol and press enter. > The Windows volume control dialog will open. Tab once. You are on the > mute speakers button, though it presumably says unmute when the > speakers are muted. Press the space bar. Test with something like > NVDA key t to read the title bar to see if you have speech. > > Try this when you have speech to make sure things are set up as > expected. Don't mute the speakers, in other words tab to see if you > land on the button, then when you hear where you are, close the > volume control dialog with alt f4. If you unmute sound in this way > in the future, once you use space and get sound back, close the > dialog with alt f4. There is no ok button and settings changes take > immediate effect. > > I would advise getting a cheap USB sound card, you can get them for > less than 10 American dollars, for emergencies when you lose > speech and can't get it back, which is unlikely but which may happen. > Using the external sound card will give you speech until you solve > the problem, assuming it is solvable by changing settings, which it > likely will be. In case the problem is more serious, such as a > hardware failure, you will have speech with no interruption in your > use of the computer and can continue to use the external sound card. > > Gene -----Original Message----- From: Neil Campbell Sent: Sunday, > January 10, 2021 6:27 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] > muting > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone > > > > I am using NVDA with Windows 10 on a desk top computer, and suddenly > lost the NVDA voice. I tried to start NVDA again with control alt n > which did not work, and also tried to start Windows Narrator which > did not work too . I thought I may have muted the sound, so pressed > F7 which had no effect. I got the assistance of a sighted person who > said that there was a big cross through a speaker on the bottom of > the screen which he clicked the mouse on and sound came back. Is > there any way I can turn the sound back on myself using quick > keystrokes. I have no sight at all. > > > > Neil > > > > > > > > > > > > > . --
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Dave Grossoehme
 

Good Morning:  This person said they were using a desktop computer.  I have found by experience there are keys on the keyboard for the sound.  If there are any keys on the keyboard that you aren't aware of what they do, try pressing and see what they do.  The present keyboard I am using has a sound on/off, sound up and sound down key here.  Several years ago, I had another keyboard that had keys to use with sound.

Dave

On 1/10/2021 5:44 AM, Gene wrote:
Do the following:
Issue the command Windows key r.  Hold the Windows key and type r.
The run dialog opens.
Type sndvol and press enter.
The Windows volume control dialog will open.
Tab once. You are on the mute speakers button, though it presumably says unmute when the speakers are muted.
Press the space bar.  Test with something like NVDA key t to read the title bar to see if you have speech.

Try this when you have speech to make sure things are set up as expected. Don't mute the speakers, in other words tab to see if you land on the button, then when you hear where you are, close the volume control dialog with alt f4.  If you unmute sound in this way in the future, once you use space and get sound back, close the dialog with alt f4.  There is no ok button and settings changes take immediate effect.

I would advise getting a cheap USB sound card, you can get them for less than     10 American dollars, for emergencies when you lose speech and can't get it back, which is unlikely but which may happen.  Using the external sound card will give you speech until you solve the problem, assuming it is solvable by changing settings, which it likely will be.  In case the problem is more serious, such as a hardware failure, you will have speech with no interruption in your use of the computer and can continue to use the external sound card.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Neil Campbell
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 6:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] muting







Hello Everyone



I am using NVDA with Windows 10 on a desk top computer, and suddenly lost the NVDA voice.  I tried to start NVDA again with control alt n which did not work, and also tried to start Windows Narrator which did not work too . I thought I may have muted the sound, so pressed F7 which had no effect.  I got the assistance of a sighted person who said that there was a big cross through a speaker on the bottom of the screen which he clicked the mouse on and sound came back.  Is there any way I can turn the sound back on myself using quick keystrokes.  I have no sight at all.



Neil











Gene
 

The person didn't have sound. I don't think it’s a good idea to just ;press keys with no screen-reader information to tell you what the key is doing. My method allows sound to be unmuted regardless of what keys do what if you are only using one sound card and the sound is muted. After that, it might be something of interest to try different keys. But other people would have to comment on whether this is a good idea or if you might have unanticipated problems. I've never had a keyboarde with such keys.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Grossoehme
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 12:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting

Good Morning: This person said they were using a desktop computer. I
have found by experience there are keys on the keyboard for the sound.
If there are any keys on the keyboard that you aren't aware of what they
do, try pressing and see what they do. The present keyboard I am using
has a sound on/off, sound up and sound down key here. Several years
ago, I had another keyboard that had keys to use with sound.

Dave


On 1/10/2021 5:44 AM, Gene wrote:
Do the following:
Issue the command Windows key r. Hold the Windows key and type r.
The run dialog opens.
Type sndvol and press enter.
The Windows volume control dialog will open.
Tab once. You are on the mute speakers button, though it presumably says unmute when the speakers are muted.
Press the space bar. Test with something like NVDA key t to read the title bar to see if you have speech.

Try this when you have speech to make sure things are set up as expected. Don't mute the speakers, in other words tab to see if you land on the button, then when you hear where you are, close the volume control dialog with alt f4. If you unmute sound in this way in the future, once you use space and get sound back, close the dialog with alt f4. There is no ok button and settings changes take immediate effect.

I would advise getting a cheap USB sound card, you can get them for less than 10 American dollars, for emergencies when you lose speech and can't get it back, which is unlikely but which may happen. Using the external sound card will give you speech until you solve the problem, assuming it is solvable by changing settings, which it likely will be. In case the problem is more serious, such as a hardware failure, you will have speech with no interruption in your use of the computer and can continue to use the external sound card.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Neil Campbell
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 6:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] muting







Hello Everyone



I am using NVDA with Windows 10 on a desk top computer, and suddenly lost the NVDA voice. I tried to start NVDA again with control alt n which did not work, and also tried to start Windows Narrator which did not work too . I thought I may have muted the sound, so pressed F7 which had no effect. I got the assistance of a sighted person who said that there was a big cross through a speaker on the bottom of the screen which he clicked the mouse on and sound came back. Is there any way I can turn the sound back on myself using quick keystrokes. I have no sight at all.



Neil












Neil Campbell <nrcampbell@...>
 

 

 

Hello Brian

 

I have used F7 to toggle speech off and on before, but did not turn it off with F7 on this occasion, and F7 would not turn it back on.  What is “Fn”?  I have a new keyboard which came with a new desk top computer, and there are additional keys which I don’t know the function of.  I will have to get a sighted person to tell me what they are. 

 

Neil

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 2:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting

 

Neil,

          Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

           This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

            Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Quentin Christensen
 

Fn is a key found on most laptops and some desktop keyboards - it's basically a modifier key you hold down and press another key to perform an action (which a full size desktop computer probably has either a key or a button for).  The most common is the F1 - F12 function keys often perform other duties such as adjusting brightness, volume or disabling a trackpad mouse on a laptop.  On some keyboards you actually have to press Fn+function key to perform the regular function, which is frustrating - you can normally toggle that, but exactly how varies from keyboard to keyboard.

In terms of figuring out what keys do, if you press NVDA+1 (the 1 on the number row, above q) it puts NVDA in Input Help mode.  Any key you press while in this mode won't do anything, but NVDA will tell you what it is, so it can be a way to find your way around a new keyboard without sighted help.

If you normally use F7 to mute NVDA, that's not an NVDA keystroke, but it's likely that is the key to mute your computer's sound.  The keystroke to mute NVDA is NVDA+s, but if F7 works, that's achieves what you need.  If it's not working right now, it might be that you've accidentally toggled your function key Fn lock.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:55 PM Neil Campbell <nrcampbell@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello Brian

 

I have used F7 to toggle speech off and on before, but did not turn it off with F7 on this occasion, and F7 would not turn it back on.  What is “Fn”?  I have a new keyboard which came with a new desk top computer, and there are additional keys which I don’t know the function of.  I will have to get a sighted person to tell me what they are. 

 

Neil

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 2:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting

 

Neil,

          Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

           This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

            Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Gene
 

NVDA won't tell you what combinations of fn key plus another key do and I don't know if the commands are carried out when you issue the commands when in the key describer. Since fn keys in combination with other keys never announce what action is being taken either with input help on or off and since what they do varies from computer to computer, I think it is a very bad idea to experiment with them. You need specific information about your computer.

Does input help describe keys like audio commands? Of course, it describes standard keys and commands but I don't have commands such as audio commands on keyboards I use.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 1:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting


Fn is a key found on most laptops and some desktop keyboards - it's basically a modifier key you hold down and press another key to perform an action (which a full size desktop computer probably has either a key or a button for). The most common is the F1 - F12 function keys often perform other duties such as adjusting brightness, volume or disabling a trackpad mouse on a laptop. On some keyboards you actually have to press Fn+function key to perform the regular function, which is frustrating - you can normally toggle that, but exactly how varies from keyboard to keyboard.

In terms of figuring out what keys do, if you press NVDA+1 (the 1 on the number row, above q) it puts NVDA in Input Help mode. Any key you press while in this mode won't do anything, but NVDA will tell you what it is, so it can be a way to find your way around a new keyboard without sighted help.

If you normally use F7 to mute NVDA, that's not an NVDA keystroke, but it's likely that is the key to mute your computer's sound. The keystroke to mute NVDA is NVDA+s, but if F7 works, that's achieves what you need. If it's not working right now, it might be that you've accidentally toggled your function key Fn lock.


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:55 PM Neil Campbell <nrcampbell@bigpond.com> wrote:






Hello Brian



I have used F7 to toggle speech off and on before, but did not turn it off with F7 on this occasion, and F7 would not turn it back on. What is “Fn”? I have a new keyboard which came with a new desk top computer, and there are additional keys which I don’t know the function of. I will have to get a sighted person to tell me what they are.



Neil









From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 2:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting





Neil,

Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards. All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet). Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.

Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel

















--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Dan Miner
 

I was going to say something very similar. I would add the fn modifier is usually processed way before NVDA sees it and thus "lost" to further inspection and action. A person can test these keys but you have to be slow and careful and test your speech responsiveness during each key test. Even then, purely visual changes will likely go unnoticed for anyone further alone the spectrum of low partial vision. This can be especially true on Bluetooth keyboards when you put your keyboard into pairing mode with this testing method. *smile*

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 5:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting

NVDA won't tell you what combinations of fn key plus another key do and I don't know if the commands are carried out when you issue the commands when in the key describer. Since fn keys in combination with other keys never announce what action is being taken either with input help on or off and since what they do varies from computer to computer, I think it is a very bad idea to experiment with them. You need specific information about your computer.

Does input help describe keys like audio commands? Of course, it describes standard keys and commands but I don't have commands such as audio commands on keyboards I use.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 1:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting


Fn is a key found on most laptops and some desktop keyboards - it's
basically a modifier key you hold down and press another key to perform an
action (which a full size desktop computer probably has either a key or a
button for). The most common is the F1 - F12 function keys often perform
other duties such as adjusting brightness, volume or disabling a trackpad
mouse on a laptop. On some keyboards you actually have to press Fn+function
key to perform the regular function, which is frustrating - you can normally
toggle that, but exactly how varies from keyboard to keyboard.

In terms of figuring out what keys do, if you press NVDA+1 (the 1 on the
number row, above q) it puts NVDA in Input Help mode. Any key you press
while in this mode won't do anything, but NVDA will tell you what it is, so
it can be a way to find your way around a new keyboard without sighted help.

If you normally use F7 to mute NVDA, that's not an NVDA keystroke, but it's
likely that is the key to mute your computer's sound. The keystroke to mute
NVDA is NVDA+s, but if F7 works, that's achieves what you need. If it's not
working right now, it might be that you've accidentally toggled your
function key Fn lock.


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:55 PM Neil Campbell <nrcampbell@bigpond.com>
wrote:






Hello Brian



I have used F7 to toggle speech off and on before, but did not turn it off
with F7 on this occasion, and F7 would not turn it back on. What is “Fn”?
I have a new keyboard which came with a new desk top computer, and there are
additional keys which I don’t know the function of. I will have to get a
sighted person to tell me what they are.



Neil









From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian
Vogel
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 2:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting





Neil,

Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media
keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and
some desktop keyboards. All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6
(or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.

This is another of those instances where make and model
information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a
screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the
machine is brand new and untweaked yet). Some makers do highly
unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media
functions.

Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external
USB soundcard are both things to try and do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval
can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel

















--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


tim
 

That input help in NVDA is about as useless as the monitor is to a total blind person.
Least with JFW you can edit the file for input key information.

On 1/15/2021 7:33 AM, Gene wrote:
NVDA won't tell you what combinations of fn key plus another key do and I don't know if the commands are carried out when you issue the commands when in the key describer.  Since fn keys in combination with other keys never announce what action is being taken either with  input help on or off and since what they do varies from computer to computer, I think it is a very bad idea to experiment with them.  You need specific information about your computer.
Does input help describe keys like audio commands?  Of course, it describes standard keys and commands but I don't have commands such as audio commands on keyboards I use.
Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 1:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting
Fn is a key found on most laptops and some desktop keyboards - it's basically a modifier key you hold down and press another key to perform an action (which a full size desktop computer probably has either a key or a button for).  The most common is the F1 - F12 function keys often perform other duties such as adjusting brightness, volume or disabling a trackpad mouse on a laptop.  On some keyboards you actually have to press Fn+function key to perform the regular function, which is frustrating - you can normally toggle that, but exactly how varies from keyboard to keyboard.
In terms of figuring out what keys do, if you press NVDA+1 (the 1 on the number row, above q) it puts NVDA in Input Help mode.  Any key you press while in this mode won't do anything, but NVDA will tell you what it is, so it can be a way to find your way around a new keyboard without sighted help.
If you normally use F7 to mute NVDA, that's not an NVDA keystroke, but it's likely that is the key to mute your computer's sound.  The keystroke to mute NVDA is NVDA+s, but if F7 works, that's achieves what you need.  If it's not working right now, it might be that you've accidentally toggled your function key Fn lock.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:55 PM Neil Campbell <nrcampbell@bigpond.com> wrote:
Hello Brian
I have used F7 to toggle speech off and on before, but did not turn it off with F7 on this occasion, and F7 would not turn it back on.  What is “Fn”? I have a new keyboard which came with a new desk top computer, and there are additional keys which I don’t know the function of.  I will have to get a sighted person to tell me what they are.
Neil
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 2:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] muting
Neil,
         Mute is typically done through a dedicated key on some media keyboards, or through F6 or F7 (when used as media keys) on many laptops and some desktop keyboards.  All it takes to trigger a mute by accident is Fn+F6 (or F7) and often Fn+F6 (or F7) will toggle it back off.
          This is another of those instances where make and model information as well as whether any media keys function is enabled (and for a screen reader user I'd very, very strongly suspect it's not unless the machine is brand new and untweaked yet).  Some makers do highly unconventional things as far as what function keys correspond to what media functions.
           Gene's advice about using sndvol and getting a cheap external USB soundcard are both things to try and do.


 

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 03:52 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:
While listening I heard him say to type S N D V O L and press enter.  But what I actually heard was tinvol not S N D V O L.  I am still frequently disgusted with how messy the pronunciation tables are for the different synths.
-
Well, it's never easy to decide how to "pronounce the unpronounceable."   Without getting too "linguist geeky" every language has what are called phonotactic constraints, which means certain sound combinations that are, and are not, allowed to occur in combination with each other.  In English, S N D, as those three letters alone, violates phonotactic constraints.  There's no English word where those three consonants, in succession, exist or can be pronounced.

And when any effort to try to pronounce this as anything other than a letter sequence is made, the result is, in one way or another, wrong.

You'll often hear people say "send vol," turning the opening into an English word that conforms to the phonotactic constraints of the language.  But they're not saying what's written on the page, but trying to come up with something that they can get out of their mouths.

Very often a number of entries in my default dictionary are acronyms that are unpronounceable under English phonotactic constraints as their single letters.  NVDA as N V D A being a perfect example.  Words, and particularly surnames where I grew up, that have their roots elsewhere in the world are hell for an English reader because you often have no idea how to pronounce them.  My favorite example, and a real one from my younger days, was the surname spelled D Z I A G W A.  I challenge any native English speaker to come even close to guessing how that one sounds.  It was pronounced as jungwa.  (that leading j is like the g in giraffe).

The poor synth folks really can't win, and I suspect this sort of things occurs in any language when something is spelled out in a way that language just doesn't allow.
 --

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Quentin Christensen
 

Sorry, I mustn't play with my laptop much - my desktop keyboard has a bunch of extra buttons and I was thinking of those which when you press things like "Mail" it DOES read that before opening mail - to be honest I never use those keys, I only know mail so well because I keep hitting that inadvertently when aiming for escape - I actually hadn't tried adjusting the volume with such keys.

Part of the problem is that while there is a standard for what signal gets sent to the PC when you press a or SHIFT+A, or escape, there is no standard for multimedia keys and other functions like volume controls on keyboards and I think many are controlled via the keyboard driver.  I haven't actually looked into the code for such things, so I could be wrong, but I think the other problem is that the way many of these keyboards control things like volume works to change the volume (or mute the sound entirely) but doesn't trigger an even which a screenreader sees.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 3:35 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 03:52 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:
While listening I heard him say to type S N D V O L and press enter.  But what I actually heard was tinvol not S N D V O L.  I am still frequently disgusted with how messy the pronunciation tables are for the different synths.
-
Well, it's never easy to decide how to "pronounce the unpronounceable."   Without getting too "linguist geeky" every language has what are called phonotactic constraints, which means certain sound combinations that are, and are not, allowed to occur in combination with each other.  In English, S N D, as those three letters alone, violates phonotactic constraints.  There's no English word where those three consonants, in succession, exist or can be pronounced.

And when any effort to try to pronounce this as anything other than a letter sequence is made, the result is, in one way or another, wrong.

You'll often hear people say "send vol," turning the opening into an English word that conforms to the phonotactic constraints of the language.  But they're not saying what's written on the page, but trying to come up with something that they can get out of their mouths.

Very often a number of entries in my default dictionary are acronyms that are unpronounceable under English phonotactic constraints as their single letters.  NVDA as N V D A being a perfect example.  Words, and particularly surnames where I grew up, that have their roots elsewhere in the world are hell for an English reader because you often have no idea how to pronounce them.  My favorite example, and a real one from my younger days, was the surname spelled D Z I A G W A.  I challenge any native English speaker to come even close to guessing how that one sounds.  It was pronounced as jungwa.  (that leading j is like the g in giraffe).

The poor synth folks really can't win, and I suspect this sort of things occurs in any language when something is spelled out in a way that language just doesn't allow.
 --

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager