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question about the right click button numpad star*


Gene
 

I'm not talking about using keyboard commands. I'm simply saying that the discussion didn't state that you need to route the mouse with NVDA before using the physical mouse click commands. I don't know how many people know that routing the virtual mouse routs the mouse, just as moving the mouse with a physical mouse does. Because we don't know who is following the thread, it is a good idea to say to route the mouse with NVDA before using the physical click commands and that is all I'm saying.

I happened to work with a trainer who specifically said that when you move the mouse with a screen-reader you are moving the mouse. I do not assume that a lot of people have been told that and they may think that using a physical mouse is somehow different. You are discussing a procedure not commonly used by blind people and it is goode to clarify. I'm not saying that you should explain things that are common knowledge.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 11:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about the right click button numpad star*

Gene,

By the way, you only need to route the mouse in certain circumstances as well. For instance, if I'm in File Explorer, and have focus with selection on a specific file or group of files, gained strictly using keyboard commands, a right click will bring up the context menu that's appropriate for that context (which is different for a single select versus multi select and a folder select versus file select etc.)

And I presume that this is a known for anyone who's used Windows for any period of time (whether with NVDA or not). You learn what's necessary when by trial and error, and I'm willing to assume most here have already undergone said trial and error before ever having joined, and am willing to walk through it if the need to do so arises. It seldom does.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel


 

Gene,

           By the way, you only need to route the mouse in certain circumstances as well.  For instance, if I'm in File Explorer, and have focus with selection on a specific file or group of files, gained strictly using keyboard commands, a right click will bring up the context menu that's appropriate for that context (which is different for a single select versus multi select and a folder select versus file select etc.)

            And I presume that this is a known for anyone who's used Windows for any period of time (whether with NVDA or not).  You learn what's necessary when by trial and error, and I'm willing to assume most here have already undergone said trial and error before ever having joined, and am willing to walk through it if the need to do so arises.  It seldom does.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:53 AM, Gene wrote:
You can have focus on something by using the arrow keys to move to something in a list, for example. The mouse is not at the location you are.
-
Gene, focus means, to me, "as appropriate for the thing being discussed."

You are 100% correct, and what you've said, in my opinion, goes without saying.  I am not going to drag out every conversation by "clarifying" things I am willing to believe a user already knows, or will end up asking if they don't and something goes wrong.  I do not presume neophytes, but people asking focused questions who are otherwise quite familiar with mouse movement versus simple focus.  When you're talking about mouse type commands "mouse focus," for lack of a better term, is what should be presumed.  Route mouse commands should have already been used.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

You can have focus on something by using the arrow keys to move to something in a list, for example. The mouse is not at the location you are. To use the click commands, whether on the mouse itself or in NVDA, you must move the mouse to the location where you want to work. Discussing covering the mouse pad means the only way you can move the mouse is with the NVDA mouse movement command before clicking it. The person you are addressing may already be doing that and may understand what you are describing. But it is important to clarify the point to avoid confusion. The mouse must still be moved before clicking no matter how you click it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 10:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about the right click button numpad star*

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Are you saying you move the mouse using the NVDA mouse movement command, then click with the actual mouse click keys?-
I'm not saying that, at least not specifically. What I'm saying is that if you have focus on something where you need a right or left click, it makes way more sense to use a real right or left click, and nowhere is that simpler than on a laptop.

The original question had nothing to do with gaining focus on something, so I am taking that as a non-issue. The question was how to make NVDA do a CTRL+Click (meaning left click) and what I'm saying is that if you can avoid having any need for NVDA to do it, and can just do it sans any emulation, the latter option is preferable.

And for keyboards without an applications key (and mine is one of them), the earlier advice from yourself about SHIFT+F10 being the way to bring up the context menu from the keyboard (if you're not using a real right click) is the correct one. This is another of those instances where very, very rarely SHIFT+F10 (or hitting Applications/menu key) and right click are not equivalent, but it's so rare that it's not even worth discussing. And in those cases I've yet to see right click not do what's wanted, but the keyboard options didn't.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel


 

That should have been "a right click," not a CTRL+Click.  We have parallel topics right now that still have what, in my opinion, is the same solution:  use the real keys.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:10 AM, Gene wrote:
Are you saying you move the mouse using the NVDA mouse movement command, then click with the actual mouse click keys?
-
I'm not saying that, at least not specifically.  What I'm saying is that if you have focus on something where you need a right or left click, it makes way more sense to use a real right or left click, and nowhere is that simpler than on a laptop.

The original question had nothing to do with gaining focus on something, so I am taking that as a non-issue.  The question was how to make NVDA do a CTRL+Click (meaning left click) and what I'm saying is that if you can avoid having any need for NVDA to do it, and can just do it sans any emulation, the latter option is preferable.

And for keyboards without an applications key (and mine is one of them), the earlier advice from yourself about SHIFT+F10 being the way to bring up the context menu from the keyboard (if you're not using a real right click) is the correct one.  This is another of those instances where very, very rarely SHIFT+F10 (or hitting Applications/menu key) and right click are not equivalent, but it's so rare that it's not even worth discussing.  And in those cases I've yet to see right click not do what's wanted, but the keyboard options didn't.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

Are you saying you move the mouse using the NVDA mouse movement command, then click with the actual mouse click keys? My problem is generally not clicking as provided for in NVDA, but in instances where I can't move to something using the mouse movement command for technical reasons I don't know. There are times on web pages where the move mouse to object navigator position doesn't work. I'm not saying that the NVDA mouse click commands don't have problems at times, I don't know, but in general, my problem is being able to move the mouse using the NVDA mouse movement command..

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 9:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about the right click button numpad star*

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 05:56 AM, tilahun muniye wrote:
The right click and application key seem similar but not at all.-
I have yet to see a single instance of where a true right click will not do exactly what hitting the applications/menu key does, but have seen a very rare few instances where hitting the applications/menu key does not do what true right click does.

I do not understand why anyone using a laptop does not simply mask off the thumb touchpad area of the full mousepad with cardboard to prevent mouse movement and use the actual left and right click keys. It's a simple thing to do, and it saves scads of heartache with emulated mouse clicks. The same thing can be done with a real mouse by putting tape over the optical port that allows it to detect movement.

I've been doing this with virtually every student I've ever had, as mouse key emulation remains far from perfect and I've had plenty of occasions where it just doesn't work. It's easy to keep access to the actual mouse left and right click keys while preventing any possibility of pointer movement.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel


 

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 05:56 AM, tilahun muniye wrote:
The right click and application key seem similar but not at all.
-
I have yet to see a single instance of where a true right click will not do exactly what hitting the applications/menu key does, but have seen a very rare few instances where hitting the applications/menu key does not do what true right click does.

I do not understand why anyone using a laptop does not simply mask off the thumb touchpad area of the full mousepad with cardboard to prevent mouse movement and use the actual left and right click keys.  It's a simple thing to do, and it saves scads of heartache with emulated mouse clicks.  The same thing can be done with a real mouse by putting tape over the optical port that allows it to detect movement.

I've been doing this with virtually every student I've ever had, as mouse key emulation remains far from perfect and I've had plenty of occasions where it just doesn't work.  It's easy to keep access to the actual mouse left and right click keys while preventing any possibility of pointer movement.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

Use shift f10. That usually works the same as the applications key, but not always.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Nikos Demetriou via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 4:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] question about the right click button numpad star*


Hi all.
I recently bought a new hp laptop.
As you probably know, recent laptops unfortunately don't have an application key.

NVDA has got a right click button which is the numpad *, but this shortcut unfortunately cannot act as an application key because it follows the focus of the mouse instead of the focus of the keyboard.

If we want to use this button we will have to press first nvda+/ to make the mouse to follow where the navigator object is.

I don't know if it's possible to make the numpad * to always follow the navigator object so it can act as an application key since we don't have one.
Nikos


tilahun muniye
 

Hi.
The right click and application key seem similar but not at all.
to get all-out function regard to application key in laptop press
shift and F ten keys. Otherwise, use sharp key to change your keyboard
layout as you preferred.


On 1/11/21, Nikos Demetriou via groups.io
<nikosdemetriou=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi all.
I recently bought a new hp laptop.
As you probably know, recent laptops unfortunately don't have an
application key.

NVDA has got a right click button which is the numpad *, but this shortcut
unfortunately cannot act as an application key because it follows the focus
of the mouse instead of the focus of the keyboard.

If we want to use this button we will have to press first nvda+/ to make
the mouse to follow where the navigator object is.

I don't know if it's possible to make the numpad * to always follow
the navigator object so it can act as an application key since we don't
have one.
Nikos






 

Hi all.
I recently bought a new hp laptop.
As you probably know, recent laptops unfortunately don't have an application key.

NVDA has got a right click button which is the numpad *, but this shortcut unfortunately cannot act as an application key because it follows the focus of the mouse instead of the focus of the keyboard.

If we want to use this button we will have to press first nvda+/ to make the mouse to follow where the navigator object is.

I don't know if it's possible to make the numpad * to always follow the navigator object so it can act as an application key since we don't have one.
Nikos