There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any "alt
text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

On Jan 7, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Pascal Lambert <rambeau68@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any "alt
text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

I use just essentials that comes with microsoft. i's free and is fine.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Pascal Lambert <rambeau68@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any "alt
text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is
free or at a reasonable price. Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on
graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = ""
or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and
alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not
present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an
image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen
readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images
that convey no content, but are decorative in nature. However, you bring
up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to
these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image
with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could
provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course,
NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option
existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with
null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled
and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded
(hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user
could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a
section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click
on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display
displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate
the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

On Jan 7, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Pascal Lambert <rambeau68@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any "alt
text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

There is also the malicious tool removal. From the run dialog box, type mrt.exe and hit enter and follow the prompts.

On 1/7/2018 1:32 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I use just essentials that comes with microsoft. i's free and is fine.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Pascal Lambert <rambeau68@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any "alt
text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is
free or at a reasonable price. Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on
graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = ""
or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and
alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not
present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an
image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen
readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images
that convey no content, but are decorative in nature. However, you bring
up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to
these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image
with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could
provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course,
NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option
existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with
null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled
and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded
(hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user
could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a
section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click
on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display
displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate
the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

Both superantispyware and malwarebytes seem to have parts of themselves that need either screen nav or don't work. I'm using the former and if you wait for prompts to update then the screens seem to work OK. The big issue is unselecting found items in that software.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2018 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Malware remover working with NVDA


I use just essentials that comes with microsoft. i's free and is fine.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 1:01 PM, Pascal Lambert <rambeau68@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


  I agree your view.
  If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


   yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

   about graphic,
   you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
   I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
   but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
   we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

 I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

 First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any "alt
text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

 Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Well I use malwarebytes to scan a system, but as for keeping it on the
system, no, windows defender handles a lot of the stuff one needs to
bother with and the more advanced stuff are just not accessible enough
for my liking.

And when they are, ie sophos, if we have a problem a false positive its
to quick to flag and then we have issues.

If a false positive is flagged, we need to exclude it reinstall the
program and hope it works or in the case of one of my friends that had
the issue, reformat, exclude and hope they don't have to reformat again.

I really don't care for antimalware tools anyway I run malwarebytes when
I need to but then its off again, it will handle a scan, and a clear out
as long as I don't give a stuff what I am deleting and usually I don't.

Since you use malwarebytes from time to time, why do you not keep it installed
on your machine? Is there a problem with doing that?

Also, you say you "run malwarebytes when you need to". How do you know when
you need to? Do you just hope that any malware shows itself as strange
behaviour on your system, rather than just doing something sinister in the
background?


Antony.

On Monday 08 January 2018 at 21:36:06, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well I use malwarebytes to scan a system, but as for keeping it on the
system, no, windows defender handles a lot of the stuff one needs to
bother with and the more advanced stuff are just not accessible enough
for my liking.

And when they are, ie sophos, if we have a problem a false positive its
to quick to flag and then we have issues.

If a false positive is flagged, we need to exclude it reinstall the
program and hope it works or in the case of one of my friends that had
the issue, reformat, exclude and hope they don't have to reformat again.

I really don't care for antimalware tools anyway I run malwarebytes when
I need to but then its off again, it will handle a scan, and a clear out
as long as I don't give a stuff what I am deleting and usually I don't.

Well I use malwarebytes to scan a system, but as for keeping it on the
system, no, windows defender handles a lot of the stuff one needs to
bother with and the more advanced stuff are just not accessible enough
for my liking.

And when they are, ie sophos, if we have a problem a false positive
its to quick to flag and then we have issues.

If a false positive is flagged, we need to exclude it reinstall the
program and hope it works or in the case of one of my friends that had
the issue, reformat, exclude and hope they don't have to reformat again.

I really don't care for antimalware tools anyway I run malwarebytes
when I need to but then its off again, it will handle a scan, and a
clear out as long as I don't give a stuff what I am deleting and usually I don't.

Well I use malwarebytes to scan a system, but as for keeping it on the
system, no, windows defender handles a lot of the stuff one needs to
bother with and the more advanced stuff are just not accessible enough
for my liking.

And when they are, ie sophos, if we have a problem a false positive
its to quick to flag and then we have issues.

If a false positive is flagged, we need to exclude it reinstall the
program and hope it works or in the case of one of my friends that had
the issue, reformat, exclude and hope they don't have to reformat again.

I really don't care for antimalware tools anyway I run malwarebytes
when I need to but then its off again, it will handle a scan, and a
clear out as long as I don't give a stuff what I am deleting and usually I don't.

Well I use malwarebytes to scan a system, but as for keeping it on the
system, no, windows defender handles a lot of the stuff one needs to
bother with and the more advanced stuff are just not accessible enough
for my liking.

And when they are, ie sophos, if we have a problem a false positive
its to quick to flag and then we have issues.

If a false positive is flagged, we need to exclude it reinstall the
program and hope it works or in the case of one of my friends that had
the issue, reformat, exclude and hope they don't have to reformat again.

I really don't care for antimalware tools anyway I run malwarebytes
when I need to but then its off again, it will handle a scan, and a
clear out as long as I don't give a stuff what I am deleting and usually I don't.

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any "alt
text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any
"alt text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Unchecky is very handy also.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "JM Casey" <crystallogic@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Malware remover working with NVDA


I have it, and I am pretty sure it's just the background processing that does not work after the trial version. The on-demand scanning, which is what the programme is actually useful for in my view, still works, and definitions still can be updated.

I keep it around and it has saved me at least once. I installed a programme that included a bunch of other baggage. I didn't realise I was allowing this other stuff to be installed, which all automatically started running on my machine. None of it was exactly malicious as such, but it was definitely unwanted. A quick MB scan revealed the culprits and I was able to clear everything in a relatively short time. Mostly this was a lot of crap in the registry, including a homepage and search redirect. Of course it's my fault for letting this stuff install in the first place, but my screen-reader (JAWS at the time) was not telling me what was on the screen, even with the use of the JAWS cursor, so I just hit the next button a whole bunch of times, and that's all it takes, sometimes. Lesson learned, but it made me glad I keep MalwareBytes around, you know?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert
Sent: January 8, 2018 5:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Malware remover working with NVDA

Hi,
It has a trial period after which it locks up.  That is why it is installed, used, then killed before the trial runs out.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Malware remover working with NVDA

Since you use malwarebytes from time to time, why do you not keep it installed on your machine?  Is there a problem with doing that?

Also, you say you "run malwarebytes when you need to".  How do you know when you need to?  Do you just hope that any malware shows itself as strange behaviour on your system, rather than just doing something sinister in the background?


Antony.

On Monday 08 January 2018 at 21:36:06, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well I use malwarebytes to scan a system, but as for keeping it on the
system, no, windows defender handles a lot of the stuff one needs to
bother with and the more advanced stuff are just not accessible enough
for my liking.

And when they are, ie sophos, if we have a problem a false positive
its to quick to flag and then we have issues.

If a false positive is flagged, we need to exclude it reinstall the
program and hope it works or in the case of one of my friends that had
the issue, reformat, exclude and hope they don't have to reformat again.

I really don't care for antimalware tools anyway I run malwarebytes
when I need to but then its off again, it will handle a scan, and a
clear out as long as I don't give a stuff what I am deleting and usually I don't.

--
"Once you have a panic, things tend to become rather undefined."

- murble

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.












.

Many thanks Tony.
Blessings
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Malware remover working with NVDA

Hi,


Check out either super antispyware or malware bytes. They have both got free and professional editions and can both be used with NVDA. You can grab the free editions from www.ninite.com. The super antispyware programs however require you to work using object navigation. If you have the OBJ pad add on, it makes navigating it a piece of cake.


Tony


On 1/7/2018 4:01 PM, Pascal Lambert wrote:

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any
"alt text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Many thanks Tony.
Blessings
Pascal
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Malware remover working with NVDA

Hi,


Check out either super antispyware or malware bytes. They have both got free and professional editions and can both be used with NVDA. You can grab the free editions from www.ninite.com. The super antispyware programs however require you to work using object navigation. If you have the OBJ pad add on, it makes navigating it a piece of cake.


Tony


On 1/7/2018 4:01 PM, Pascal Lambert wrote:

Hi All,
Looking for a malware remover program that works well with NVDA that is free or at a reasonable price.
Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


I agree your view.
If newer nvda or nvda-addon had a feature about make a tag by own on graphic, for example, we will add a describe on graphic that is alt = "" or no alt, the graphic should be show let us tag.

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Rick 於 2018/1/7 下午 09:11 寫道:

There is a difference between the alt attribute not being present and alt="" (null alt text) on a graphic. When the alt attribute is not present, screen readers often default to speaking the filename of an image. However, when alt="" is present, the image is ignored by screen readers. This is by design. Alt="" is supposed to be used for images that convey no content, but are decorative in nature.
However, you bring up a good point. It is impossible for screen reader users to navigate to these graphics. Hence, if a screen reader user wanted to copy an image with alt="" there would be no way to accomplish this. Perhaps NVDA could provide an option to not ignore images with null alt text. Of course, NVDA could only speak the filename of the graphic. If this option existed, I would want to know if the image encountered would be one with null alt text. I would assume the state of this option would be disabled and that a user could enable it when desired.

Regarding collapsed vs expanded. Visually, when a section can be expanded (hence, it is collapsed) a plus sign is displayed. Visually, a user could click on the plus sign to expand the section or menu. Also, when a section is expanded, a minus sign is displayed allowing a user to click on the minus sign to collapse the tree. This is why your braille display displays the way it does. The plus and minus characters do not indicate the state of the tree or menu, but the action that can be taken.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web


yes, I can accept your explanation of the plus sign.

about graphic,
you said "you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and meaningless text string in any case"
I think it is a link to the graphic will be like this,
but if it is a simple graphic have not link and set onclick event on it,
we will lost it when use nvda screen reader.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 2018/1/6 下午 04:04 寫道:

I think it depends on how you think of it.
IE there are always two ways.
if it says plus it could mean you have expanded it or it could mean
it can be expanded.



I'm not sure what you mean about untagged graphics though. Often if
you reproduce the underlying name of the graphic its a very long and
meaningless text string in any case.

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "特種兵" <afreettears@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] two suggestions about nvda on web

Hi all:

I have two suggestions about nvda browse on website.

First, nvda will be lost graphic when the graphic has no any
"alt text", example: alt = "" or no alt attribute.
this design let us no method click it (if is can onclick) or make
something for this graphic (if download the graphic) because this
graphic is gone in nvda's world, so I hope nvda still show this
graphic by "gra" or some signed, tell us graphic has exists.
I think if later nvda can do the mark on the graph, then the graph
should be displayed anyway.

Second, the wai-aria attribute "aria-expanded" show condition is
put upside down.
if aria-expanded = false, nvda will announce "collapsed" is right
but braille display show "+" (plus), if aria-expanded = true, nvda
will announce "expanded" is right but braille display show "-"
(minus).
Is not the plus and minus the opposite display?
or I would like to know why the plus sign is collapsed and minus is
expanded yet?
Because this thinking seems to be somewhat different from our Asians.

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan