Yes I sent you the mail as it was confusing. Incidentally as these are
called hashtags, presumably due to the # sign, the why is nvda still
calling this number?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid hash tags)

Hi Gene and others,

I did record an address that I shall post a link to shortly.



Perhaps I may have used a wrong word: when I talk about change of
generation, what I really meant was the next group of enthusiasts. Sorry
about the confusion.



As for concerns that I'll be leaving this community: resignation doesn't
mean departure. I'll still be around to answer questions,
participating as a
member and one of the code contributors to NVDA screen reader.



As for hashtag issue people were getting: all fixed. Sorry for the
inconvenience.



Cheers,

Joseph



From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@ripco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:17 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid
hash tags)



I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing
Michael lee for stepping down. I criticized the reasons he gave and
pointed
out that that reason implies that younger members might be considered for
the position while older people might not be because they are not and
cannot
be part of the generational shift. If most people resigned from things
because they were in their late twenties or early thirties, we would lose
most of the experience and knowledge that comes with age. If most of us
resigned because we were worried about who would carry on if some mishap
happened to us, then everyone would have to resign from everything
because a
mishap can happen to anyone. That's why there are procedures that
institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or disability.



I also said that I appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the
list.




My main criticism was to the proposal to elect the next moderator.



If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his decision. I did not criticize
that decision.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid
hash tags)



Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If
anything,
I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and
say, I
don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage!
I'm
very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so
respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think
we all
need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart
that
he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a
lot of you all may think, or believe.



He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.



He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to
talk to
this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look...
he/she
called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to
play the
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which
explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so.
I have
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend,
and as a
business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business
hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position
yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say
anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither
wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things.



I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just
because I
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that
people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an
admin,
nor wish to be frankly.



My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't
you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his
blog?
He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have
people just
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask
questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you
all a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use
it if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.



Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had
to say
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg
the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of
respect
for them.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.



clgilland07@gmail.com <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)



Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where
the on
list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the
greater
the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
smooth one.

Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list,
over the past three years.

Travis

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice



Hi,



If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as
the
candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head
moderator
position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):



1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.

2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for
the past
three years or more.

3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a
crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.

4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face
of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).

5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.

6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.

7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access
and other NVDA developers.

8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.

9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).

10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.

11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served).

12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this
list
and the public.

13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an
adult in
the country a candidate resides in).



Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this
list, and
in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only
applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications
will be
accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April
so the
new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the
following blog post:

http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.h

tml?spref=tw

Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate
moderators as well. Good luck.

The number sign and the sharp sign are not the same. the number sign is often used for sharp, as the actual sharp sign is not on the keyboard and quite rare as far as I know. (btw, nvda doesn't know it yet)
So nvda is correct in keeping calling it number rather than sharp.
It is also sometimes called hash or pound. The later would be confusing, because of the monetary unit, so it's out of the way. It could be called number if a number follows, and hash otherwise, like for the minus/dash sign. But I'm not sure how widely known this word is.

-- Patrick.

Le 24/03/2016 09:51, Brian's Mail list account a écrit :

Yes I sent you the mail as it was confusing. Incidentally as these are
called hashtags, presumably due to the # sign, the why is nvda still
calling this number?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid hash tags)

Hi Gene and others,

I did record an address that I shall post a link to shortly.



Perhaps I may have used a wrong word: when I talk about change of
generation, what I really meant was the next group of enthusiasts. Sorry
about the confusion.



As for concerns that I'll be leaving this community: resignation doesn't
mean departure. I'll still be around to answer questions,
participating as a
member and one of the code contributors to NVDA screen reader.



As for hashtag issue people were getting: all fixed. Sorry for the
inconvenience.



Cheers,

Joseph



From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@ripco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:17 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid
hash tags)



I did not and I went out of my way to say, that I was not criticizing
Michael lee for stepping down. I criticized the reasons he gave and
pointed
out that that reason implies that younger members might be considered for
the position while older people might not be because they are not and
cannot
be part of the generational shift. If most people resigned from things
because they were in their late twenties or early thirties, we would lose
most of the experience and knowledge that comes with age. If most of us
resigned because we were worried about who would carry on if some mishap
happened to us, then everyone would have to resign from everything
because a
mishap can happen to anyone. That's why there are procedures that
institutions have for filling a vacancy left by death or disability.



I also said that I appreciate the work Michael Lee did in running the
list.




My main criticism was to the proposal to elect the next moderator.



If Michael Lee wants to resign, that's his decision. I did not criticize
that decision.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:40 AM

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Subject: Re: Very concerned, was: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list
(stupid
hash tags)



Unlike Gene, and others, I must say I do not concur with them. If
anything,
I actually am with Travis, AKA, Kwork, on this one. Joseph has done a
magnificent job, and the fact that he was man enough to step up and
say, I
don't feel that I can do this anymore adiquitly took lots of courage!
I'm
very proud of him for being so honest and so up front, yet being so
respectful to all of us in how he did things. To his credit, I think
we all
need to give Mr. Lee a bit of a break. I really can tell in my heart
that
he truly, truly does care, and is trying his darndest, contrary to what a
lot of you all may think, or believe.



He's not burnt out. I had a member yesterday who will be 100% left
nameless, who called me at the phone number listed in my signature.



He or she kept asking me over and over again if I felt Joseph was burned
out. For the record, let me just say this. I had planned today to
talk to
this person more if the questions continued, but honestly... look...
he/she
called me on my tech support line, and when I said I'm not here to
play the
middle man in this, go ask Joseph directly, go read his blog post which
explains everything of his reasonings, they didn't apparently do so.
I have
no issue talking to others, including this member both as a friend,
and as a
business related thing, but don't! put me as the middle man, off business
hours or not. That really put me in a very uncomfortable position
yesterday. I felt put on the immediate spot, as I didn't want to say
anything privately or publicly, and be taken as being rude, but I neither
wanted to hold back and not say how I felt about things.



I'm just a member of the list, and a fairly new one at that. Just
because I
put my work phone number in my signature doesn't mean I did so, so that
people could call me about list admin duties. I'm not a mod, nor an
admin,
nor wish to be frankly.



My point is, if Joseph really were "burnt out," quote unquote, then don't
you think he probably wouldn't have been so willing to explain on his
blog?
He posted that link for a reason, and that reason wasn't to have
people just
ignore it, then later wonder. It's the whole shoot and kill now, ask
questions later principle. It shouldn't be that way. Joseph gave you
all a
resource to look at, if you're wondering, so, for goodness sake, use
it if
you're wonderring. I, shouldn't have to be the one to clear this up for
everyone on the list. It's not my responsibility, nor my problem.



Again, sorry to be so brutally direct about this statement, but I had
to say
something before this got more out of hand than it already has, and I beg
the admins' pardon for having to say this publicly with my utmost of
respect
for them.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.



clgilland07@gmail.com <mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com>
Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kwork <mailto:istherelife@gmail.com>

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] qualifying to manage a list (stupid hash tags)



Joseph, those are very good points on which to choose a new moderator. I
think that another point is that they also need to be respected by the
majority of the list members where they will serve, and that's where
the on
list voting will help. The more that vote on this type of topic, the
greater
the chance that cooler heads will prevail, and the transition will be a
smooth one.

Thank you, Joseph, for all the work you've done with NVDA, and this list,
over the past three years.

Travis

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>

To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19 PM

Subject: [nvda] Follow-up: moderator qualifications #ModNotice
#AdminNotice



Hi,



If you or someone you know fulfills all (yes, ALL) of the following
requirements, then please put forth your name or that person's name as
the
candidate for the new moderator (note that this isn't about head
moderator
position, and our current head moderator is Nimer Jaber):



1. Have used NVDA for the past three years or more.

2. Have been a member of this forum and other NVDA forums for
the past
three years or more.

3. Ability to communicate well, especially when confronting a
crisis
such as misbehaving members, off-topic messages and such.

4. Ability to communicate kindly (and with humility) even in the
face
of adversity (especially during arbitration hearing proceedings).

5. Willingness to seek advice from moderators and members of this
forum when making list-wide decisions.

6. Familiarity with Groups.IO administration controls.

7. Ability to serve as a user-side advocate when talking to NV
Access
and other NVDA developers.

8. Ability to deliver important news from NV Access such as NVDA
release announcements in a timely manner.

9. Willingness to step down from position of power when appropriate
(recalled, on his or her own will and so on).

10. Willingness to shower members of this list and the wider NVDA
community with love and mercy, including to misbehaving members.

11. Having the servant's attitude (to serve, not to be served).

12. Willingness to be accountable and answerable to members of this
list
and the public.

13. Must be at least 21 years of age or older (or considered an
adult in
the country a candidate resides in).



Some of you may say, "look, these requirements are too hard." I believe
that, as a public face of this list (alongside other moderators and
members), you are responsible for the fate and reputation of this
list, and
in extension, NVDA community and NVDA screen reader itself. Thus only
applications from serious candidates will be accepted (applications
will be
accepted until early April, and election will be held by end of April
so the
new moderator can adjust to his or her new role throughout May).



Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph

P.S. The reason for making these requirements tough is because of the
following blog post:

http://joslee22590.blogspot.com/2016/03/if-i-die-tonight-2-showering-forum.h

tml?spref=tw

Although the post talks about head moderators, it applies to associate
moderators as well. Good luck.

Its hash here according to my keyboard, but even I don't know what you
call sharp. Number and hash are the same. Indeed for some unknown reason
one of my gadgets insists on saying pound, which is completely wrong!

Brian