Date
1 - 20 of 36
New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to?
|
Daniele Casarola
Hi,
I'm Daniele from Italy. I need a new add-on for NVDA to make my job accessible. I'm not a programmer and I don't know how to do. I've tried to send an email to the man NVDA website, but I didn't receive answer. Do you know somebody offering this kind of service? Thank you very much. Daniele. |
|
|
|
Adriani Botez
Hey,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
What exactly do you need? Best Adriani
|
|
|
|
Brian's Mail list account
I think at the moment if this is an in house piece of software its going to be hard to do it, as really the employer needs to contact somebody and pay for it to be done I'd suggest. In a small market like one company, it is I think legitimate to expect it to be paid for as usage is unlikely to be very large.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniele Casarola" <casaroladaniele@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:26 AM Subject: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Hi, I'm Daniele from Italy. I need a new add-on for NVDA to make my job accessible. I'm not a programmer and I don't know how to do. I've tried to send an email to the man NVDA website, but I didn't receive answer. Do you know somebody offering this kind of service? Thank you very much. Daniele. |
|
|
|
erik burggraaf <erik@...>
It's possible that your employer has someone in house capable of doing python scripting. That would be the cheaper option for them. Did you try contacting the nvda developer list? That is where all of the add-on developers hang out. Best, Erik On January 10, 2018 2:27:56 AM "Daniele Casarola" <casaroladaniele@...> wrote:
Hi, |
|
|
|
Well you probably should use jaws, people in companies use jaws for that and buy jaws scripts.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Nvda is opensource, I am not sure if anyone would do a payed addon well due to the opensource nature I don't even know if the licence terms allow for someone to make a payed addon for a single user. True we have synths but even so. On 10/01/2018 11:19 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think at the moment if this is an in house piece of software its going to be hard to do it, as really the employer needs to contact somebody and pay for it to be done I'd suggest. In a small market like one company, it is I think legitimate to expect it to be paid for as usage is unlikely to be very large. |
|
|
|
Hi,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I usually don't respond like the one you read below, but I think it must be said: All I can say is, "this is 2010's." I personally WILL NOT tolerate the kinds of sentiment expressed below. Statements such as, "if you want customized and paid scripts, use JAWS", is, to me, outright unacceptable. I might add that statements like the one I paraphrased is hindrance, not hope, and it builds barriers instead of opening the doors for many. I think one of the reasons why there's really no professional uptake for NVDA (for now) is that we are too comfortable with our comfort zones, thus some may not show willingness to write professional add-ons, but that's changing. Thus I would like to give my full support to an angel who can and is willing to write and share a custom NVDA add-on for the app in question. Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:03 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Well you probably should use jaws, people in companies use jaws for that and buy jaws scripts. Nvda is opensource, I am not sure if anyone would do a payed addon well due to the opensource nature I don't even know if the licence terms allow for someone to make a payed addon for a single user. True we have synths but even so. On 10/01/2018 11:19 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote: I think at the moment if this is an in house piece of software its |
|
|
|
Adriani Botez
That‘s why I asked what exactly is needed.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Best Adriani Von meinem iPhone gesendet Am 10.01.2018 um 22:37 schrieb Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>: |
|
|
|
Joseph the issue with any custom in house software is that by its vary nature it will not be shared.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Maybe we are to much in our confort zones but what is the point of opensource, sure one person maybe 2 benifit from an addon for them. I thought the idea was that we use as much mainstream as we can. Now something like sap I can see that but an in house company writing their software, even if they give someone permition to do scripts maybe inside maybe outside, its not likely its going to go anywhere, and that is in itself fine. As for professional addons. I don't know, I don't want people to get into the idea that you have to pay for a script to use a free screen reader like nvda. On one hand though being its python they don't need anything special to do it. Maybe there should be a semi pro version of nvda with features for businesses or something. I guess its getting into my head that not everything even with a free reader is free. But if we go this rout, how much should a free script cost for nvda? It depends on the complexity for the software. But bar synths no one has ventured out that far. I guess I don't see any reason why we should surport the custom business market but then I come from a place where jaws did businesses. And well who knows. maybe I am out of date. On 11/01/2018 10:37 a.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi, |
|
|
|
Adriani Botez
Most professional custom software, even sap, uses java as basis for customization. General java support would make lots of expensive scripts obsolet. But for this, screenreader users, screen reader developers and mainstream developers have to find together. In my case, a mainstream developer just brought out an update for a finance software which made it fully accessible. This happened after tests from my side and after our company told the developer to do it. It cost only 2 project days. But considering that our company is a customer of those developers, the update was included in our budget and so, this was very cheap. As a long time customer, our company had a good position in the discussion. I am sure this is the case for most companies with custom software because in this case the relationship between company and its external software developers / consultants must be very strong and of long term nature.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Best Adriani Von meinem iPhone gesendet Am 11.01.2018 um 00:26 schrieb Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...>: |
|
|
|
Norman <lists@...>
Hi.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The problem here is that i don't know who to ask to build a custom addon even if i want to. I really wish for some field labeling in a program i use a lot but who does this kind of thing? I know almost nothing about python development and even less about the nvda development structure so getting me to learn it with the limited time i have these days is pointless. thanks. On 1/10/2018 4:37 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi, |
|
|
|
Fair enough.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My issue would be for a bit of software no one would use as such, being that nvda bar maybe some synths is opensource software. Now what would be a good price for some custom software for someone to use taking in mind that we are not talking about jaws, if you can afford jaws then you can certainly afford the 300-1000-2000 pluss for scripts. But this is not jaws and its own language, this is nvda on python, using free tools for the most part. Synths have cost up to 120 or 130 bucks and thats fine sort of as it goes. But even if custom scripts were made, excluding jgt and maybe a few other free ones, it would be fine bar 2 things. 1. we are not a business or at least not one that has a dedicated group of script writers that get payed to make custom scripts. and 2. assuming you write something well who knows if it will benifit all. The real reason nvda is better than jaws is that basically 99.9999999% of all software is web based or has a web component. When I used jaws I could read desktop software quite well, and I wouldn't dream of nvda jaws has all the features etc, etc, etc same with others. With web enabled software nvda supports a load more brousers out of the box, as well as native windows libraries, that is its strength. Custom software will have custom controls, graphics and non standards complient code. I once talked to a writer that did it for jaws, it was hard to handle for just jaws. Now, nvda does not have a graphics intercept driver, a link library for getting at a screen like off screen models, and a lot of other priparitry stuff. We rely on the os and its apis for access. I am not saying give up, but while we have object nav others have vertual cursers and stuff, maybe we could get one of those. A lot of the other readers have intercepters for things we have some of that but not everything. I am unsure if that gets things harder and harder. However this has come up which means nvda is actually being recognised by a lot of people even those in the industry some choosing nvda over others. You are right joseph, we have been used to doing this for to long. Jaws is for work, nvda is for home, I have never gone to work with nvda, it was always jaws and at any rate I won't be in office or anything as such. But maybe this should be the next descussion in fact, I wander if this could be part of conference. How will nvda handle custom software, surely it is the next step. On 11/01/2018 12:50 p.m., Adriani Botez wrote:
Most professional custom software, even sap, uses java as basis for customization. General java support would make lots of expensive scripts obsolet. But for this, screenreader users, screen reader developers and mainstream developers have to find together. In my case, a mainstream developer just brought out an update for a finance software which made it fully accessible. This happened after tests from my side and after our company told the developer to do it. It cost only 2 project days. But considering that our company is a customer of those developers, the update was included in our budget and so, this was very cheap. As a long time customer, our company had a good position in the discussion. I am sure this is the case for most companies with custom software because in this case the relationship between company and its external software developers / consultants must be very strong and of long term nature. |
|
|
|
The issue is that you need to get someone that writes scripts.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
He/she needs to be exposed to the program in question and there is the issue. I am not sure if anyone of us have some sort of professional qualification to write scripts for businesses. We would need to see the software. Business x will not give some little hacker on the big internet access to their software or computer or anything without some assurance. They will however give access to someone that handles jaws because jaws is the way and has been for a while and has established writers. We do ofcause have this for ourselves, but we are not a business, we are an opensource organisation which just so happen to be able to handle win10 and office as well as the os itself. I doubt we could even handle custom software. And what happens if something goes wrong, I doubt we could last any sueing or anything. This is new teritory, and I don't understand it at all. Do we want to take the next step, vfo is a large established group, it won't be long till someone suggests jaws. I am not saying lie down and die but do we even have a strategy to handle this. TO the user that said most things are java based, maybe thats what we must focus on next then. On 11/01/2018 2:07 p.m., Norman wrote:
Hi. |
|
|
|
Day Garwood
Hi Shaun,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
NVAccess itself is a registered charity. So while not a business, companies can be more or less be assured of its authenticity. What's more, they do paid support packages, and as they develop and update NVDA itself, I am sure, with appropriate funding, either from donations or as a paid service, they will be able to hire someone to script the necessary components, or else make it themselves. As for licencing: I have actually often wondered that myself. Licences are far too legalese for me to understand the entire ins and outs, but my understanding is that the GPL forces you to make your software open source, meaning that a paid addon isn't an option unless the addon itself accesses a separate closed-source module. The GPL itself states that you can charge if you wish, but that makes no sense - if you charge someone for a piece of software, which has to be open source, then there is no copy-protection against that. I guess it means for instance if you are hired to make something which is GPL-compatible. As it is, I don't mind. I choose NVDA over JAWS by principle, due to the fact that, not only does JAWS costs over thirty times more than a cheap monitor, but it also charges for upgrades... I could rant on about JAWS all day - I've already had to remove four lines of ranting waffle. Bottom line is, NVDA could be closed-source and charged at £30, and I'd gladly get it. I'm not one of these "Everything has to be free!" people, but I do believe we should be able to get like for like in the field of accessibility. A screen reader gives information about the screen, so simple and idealistic logic should dictate that it should cost no more than a screen. I'm so grateful that NVDA has set a new precedence by going a few steps further and making it free and open-source, and I sincerely hope my donations over the years have proved that, at least to a degree. Cheers. Damien. -----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Everiss Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 1:48 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? The issue is that you need to get someone that writes scripts. He/she needs to be exposed to the program in question and there is the issue. I am not sure if anyone of us have some sort of professional qualification to write scripts for businesses. We would need to see the software. Business x will not give some little hacker on the big internet access to their software or computer or anything without some assurance. They will however give access to someone that handles jaws because jaws is the way and has been for a while and has established writers. We do ofcause have this for ourselves, but we are not a business, we are an opensource organisation which just so happen to be able to handle win10 and office as well as the os itself. I doubt we could even handle custom software. And what happens if something goes wrong, I doubt we could last any sueing or anything. This is new teritory, and I don't understand it at all. Do we want to take the next step, vfo is a large established group, it won't be long till someone suggests jaws. I am not saying lie down and die but do we even have a strategy to handle this. TO the user that said most things are java based, maybe thats what we must focus on next then. On 11/01/2018 2:07 p.m., Norman wrote: Hi. |
|
|
|
Brian's Mail list account
My feeling on this one is that the main issue for the post when it first appeared was we did not know the application or the needs of the poster. If it was a special app, that only exists as it was commissioned by the company using it, then to me its only right that that company should make it accessible themselves, even if that means paying somebody to do it. if on the other hand its a mainstream app which has not been covered and the company is willing under their licence to let a scripter have a copy, then I see no real barriers to somebody doing it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Hi, I usually don't respond like the one you read below, but I think it must be said: All I can say is, "this is 2010's." I personally WILL NOT tolerate the kinds of sentiment expressed below. Statements such as, "if you want customized and paid scripts, use JAWS", is, to me, outright unacceptable. I might add that statements like the one I paraphrased is hindrance, not hope, and it builds barriers instead of opening the doors for many. I think one of the reasons why there's really no professional uptake for NVDA (for now) is that we are too comfortable with our comfort zones, thus some may not show willingness to write professional add-ons, but that's changing. Thus I would like to give my full support to an angel who can and is willing to write and share a custom NVDA add-on for the app in question. Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:03 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Well you probably should use jaws, people in companies use jaws for that and buy jaws scripts. Nvda is opensource, I am not sure if anyone would do a payed addon well due to the opensource nature I don't even know if the licence terms allow for someone to make a payed addon for a single user. True we have synths but even so. On 10/01/2018 11:19 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote: I think at the moment if this is an in house piece of software its |
|
|
|
Rob Hudson <rob_hudson_3182@...>
Damien Garwood <damien@...> wrote:
A screen reader gives information about theWell, but what screen. Some screens are thousands of dollars, lol. |
|
|
|
Day Garwood
Hi,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Are you kidding me! You can seriously get thousands of dollar screens? That is crazy, and something I've never heard of. No, I'm talking about bog standard screens, that generally sighted people would buy with a computer without even thinking. Cheers. Damien. -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Hudson Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:03 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Damien Garwood <damien@...> wrote: A screen reader gives information about theWell, but what screen. Some screens are thousands of dollars, lol. |
|
|
|
Adriani Botez
Hey Damien,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I think you wanted to say that a screen reader should not cause any costs at all except the costs of the screen itself. Right? Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Damien Garwood Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Januar 2018 11:15 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Hi, Are you kidding me! You can seriously get thousands of dollar screens? That is crazy, and something I've never heard of. No, I'm talking about bog standard screens, that generally sighted people would buy with a computer without even thinking. Cheers. Damien. -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Hudson Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:03 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Damien Garwood <damien@...> wrote: A screen reader gives information about the screen, so simple andWell, but what screen. Some screens are thousands of dollars, lol. |
|
|
|
Adriani Botez
Your statement (taken word by word) can cause missunderstandings. Why should
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I pay twice for a screen, only because I need a screen reader? Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Adriani Botez Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Januar 2018 12:10 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Hey Damien, I think you wanted to say that a screen reader should not cause any costs at all except the costs of the screen itself. Right? Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Damien Garwood Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Januar 2018 11:15 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Hi, Are you kidding me! You can seriously get thousands of dollar screens? That is crazy, and something I've never heard of. No, I'm talking about bog standard screens, that generally sighted people would buy with a computer without even thinking. Cheers. Damien. -----Original Message-----
From: Rob Hudson Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:03 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Damien Garwood <damien@...> wrote: A screen reader gives information about the screen, so simple andWell, but what screen. Some screens are thousands of dollars, lol. |
|
|
|
Day Garwood
Hi,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Exactly. I bought a perfectly reasonable display for about £30 ($40?). I would gladly pay that for a screenreader. I might even pay 50. If it's especially good I might even be willing to buy one for 100. But anything above that, at least in my opinion, is ridiculous. To think that now, were it not for NVDA, the cheapest screen reader for windows would be Dolphin, and even that's only about 100-150 cheaper than JAWS. Cheers. Damien. -----Original Message-----
From: Adriani Botez Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 11:10 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Hey Damien, I think you wanted to say that a screen reader should not cause any costs at all except the costs of the screen itself. Right? Best Adriani -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Damien Garwood Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Januar 2018 11:15 An: nvda@nvda.groups.io Betreff: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Hi, Are you kidding me! You can seriously get thousands of dollar screens? That is crazy, and something I've never heard of. No, I'm talking about bog standard screens, that generally sighted people would buy with a computer without even thinking. Cheers. Damien. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Hudson Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:03 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] New custom NVDA Add-on. Who ask to? Damien Garwood <damien@...> wrote: A screen reader gives information about the screen, so simple andWell, but what screen. Some screens are thousands of dollars, lol. |
|
|
|
But there in lies the problem.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
We are opensource. The addons by nature usually need to be free. In house custom made software is for the company, and unless they do it themselves, it is unlikely they will let someone just get access to their secret software or code certainly even if they do that person would have an aggreement. Suppose some testers need to test it, they can't. I am not sure myself where this does it. There are no rules saying you can't but who knows. On 11/01/2018 9:45 p.m., Damien Garwood wrote:
Hi Shaun, |
|
|