Strange behaviour of Google Chrome


Gene
 

Cookies take up space on the hard drive but its minimal. They are tiny text files and you could have thousands of cookies and take very little room. At times, a cookie may cause a problem and need to be deleted. That may have been the case in this instance. I suspect in such cases, the cookie has somehow been corrupted, thus my discussion of backing up cookies so you can restore cookies and perhaps replace the corrupted one with one that isn't.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2021 1:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

When I looked through the options of what to delete, it said that the
cookies were taking up space on the hard drive. The reason I deleted the
browsing data in the first place was because NVDA wasn't navigating the
banking page correctly.

Louise


Louise Pfau
 

When I looked through the options of what to delete, it said that the cookies were taking up space on the hard drive. The reason I deleted the browsing data in the first place was because NVDA wasn't navigating the banking page correctly.

Louise


Gene
 

You are evidently deleting cookies when you delete browsing data. I don't know what is making the site not work properly. it might be worth experimenting when it doesn't. You can tell browsers what to delete. You can try deleting other data first and save deleting cookies for last.

Another option might be to save your cookies, if that is the problem, at a time when the site is working properly. Do it as soon as you have reentered information and login is again automatic. Then, if deleting the cookies is necessary to solve the problem, restore the backed up cookies.

I don't know if you can back up cookies in the browser you are using. You can using Internet Explorer, but I haven't checcked other browsers.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

Hi. I have to delete the browsing data from Microsoft Edge occasionally. I
was instructed to do so by the technical support for my banking website when
it wouldn't work correctly. I noticed that deleting the browsing data also
deleted the login information for all of the websites I use, so I had to
complete the extra security steps, which in some cases aren't very
accessible.

Louise


Arlene
 

Same here, I had to delete the browsing history from edge. My main browser is Chrome. In my book marks is my bank. Edge as well.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Louise Pfau
Sent: April 5, 2021 11:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

 

Hi.  I have to delete the browsing data from Microsoft Edge occasionally.  I

was instructed to do so by the technical support for my banking website when

it wouldn't work correctly.  I noticed that deleting the browsing data also

deleted the login information for all of the websites I use, so I had to

complete the extra security steps, which in some cases aren't very

accessible.

 

Louise

 

 

 

 

 

 


Louise Pfau
 

Hi. I have to delete the browsing data from Microsoft Edge occasionally. I was instructed to do so by the technical support for my banking website when it wouldn't work correctly. I noticed that deleting the browsing data also deleted the login information for all of the websites I use, so I had to complete the extra security steps, which in some cases aren't very accessible.

Louise


Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

I just thought I'd throw in my $0.02 here for what it's worth. I don't
notice any performance issues if I don't clear everything for several
months, but I do it once in a while just because. I've been
considering doing that with Firefox here recently, but it would be the
first time it's been completely cleared in the two years I've had it,
though only four months of that has been as a primary browser.

On 4/5/21, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com> wrote:
I have book marks on chrome. If I need a web page I go get it in the book
marks. If there’s a page I no longer use I just get rid of it. Same with my
history and data. I do it once a month. I clean it usually the last day of
the month in case there’s a page I need then I book mark it. If I don’t need
it I dump it.  I don’t know what this prosesor uses I know Chrome runs fine.
My tutor who helped me with my online course installed it and I been using
it since.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: zahra
Sent: April 4, 2021 11:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome



i set my firefox to cleans all data including history when closing.

i also dont use bookmark.

i believe that its one of the advantages of firefox that my firefox is

always like the time when i installed it for the first time.

i believe that saving data may cause slowness of firefox or any browser.



On 4/5/21, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't clean anything unless there is a reason such as slower
performance.
I want my history because now and then, I want to go back to a site I
didn't
book mark.  Also, for those who use visited links when browsing, if you
clear your history, you will not have any more visited links.  I have no
objection to clearing history or the cache if there is a reason to do so.
I
object to doing maintenance when there is no need on some sort of schedule
or periodicallly just because time [passes.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2021 2:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome
I do that from time to time. You clean out your chrome Hystery and data. I
learned that when trying to study for my food save exam. The online
instructor told me you have to clean your browsing hystery from time to
time. I don’t know why but you do. Then it will run better.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Marco Oros
Sent: April 4, 2021 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome
I don't know It.
But, I have fixed this problem. I have deleted everything not on My
computer, but also sinced data and after that, Google Chrome again works
good.
Dňa 4. 4. 2021 o 18:39 zahra napísal(a):
hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!
On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.
I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My
computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there
is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know
why.
For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It
better, because I am not English native speaker.
Can I fix this problem?
Thank You.
Marco Oros




--

By God,

were I given all the seven heavens

with all they contain

in order that

I may disobey God

by depriving an ant

from the husk of a grain of barley,

I would not do it.

imam ali












Arlene
 

I have book marks on chrome. If I need a web page I go get it in the book marks. If there’s a page I no longer use I just get rid of it. Same with my history and data. I do it once a month. I clean it usually the last day of the month in case there’s a page I need then I book mark it. If I don’t need it I dump it.  I don’t know what this prosesor uses I know Chrome runs fine. My tutor who helped me with my online course installed it and I been using it since.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: zahra
Sent: April 4, 2021 11:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

 

i set my firefox to cleans all data including history when closing.

i also dont use bookmark.

i believe that its one of the advantages of firefox that my firefox is

always like the time when i installed it for the first time.

i believe that saving data may cause slowness of firefox or any browser.

 

On 4/5/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

> I don't clean anything unless there is a reason such as slower performance.

> I want my history because now and then, I want to go back to a site I didn't

> book mark.  Also, for those who use visited links when browsing, if you

> clear your history, you will not have any more visited links.  I have no

> objection to clearing history or the cache if there is a reason to do so.  I

> object to doing maintenance when there is no need on some sort of schedule

> or periodicallly just because time [passes.

> Gene

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Arlene

> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2021 2:34 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

> I do that from time to time. You clean out your chrome Hystery and data. I

> learned that when trying to study for my food save exam. The online

> instructor told me you have to clean your browsing hystery from time to

> time. I don’t know why but you do. Then it will run better.

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Marco Oros

> Sent: April 4, 2021 12:18 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

> I don't know It.

> But, I have fixed this problem. I have deleted everything not on My

> computer, but also sinced data and after that, Google Chrome again works

> good.

> Dňa 4. 4. 2021 o 18:39 zahra napísal(a):

>> hello.

>> how much ram do you have?

>> i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.

>> i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.

>> i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.

>> my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!

>> 

>> On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@...> wrote:

>>> Hello.

>>> 

>>> I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My

>>> computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there

>>> is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know

>>> why.

>>> 

>>> For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later

>>> key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It

>>> better, because I am not English native speaker.

>>> 

>>> Can I fix this problem?

>>> 

>>> Thank You.

>>> 

>>> Marco Oros

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>

 

 

--

By God,

were I given all the seven heavens

with all they contain

in order that

I may disobey God

by depriving an ant

from the husk of a grain of barley,

I would not do it.

imam ali

 

 

 

 

 


Steve Nutt
 

Sorry, this is simply not true. I have tried laptops with only 4GB of RAM and Chrome works just fine.

All the best

Steve

--
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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: 04 April 2021 17:39
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!

On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.

I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on
My computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes
there is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know why.

For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain
It better, because I am not English native speaker.

Can I fix this problem?

Thank You.

Marco Oros







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Gene
 

You are stating as beliefs, things that are factually incorrect except in specific cases. The generalizations are not true as generalizations. And they are never true regarding book marks. Book marks don't have anything to do with how fast a page loads. And if you don't have book marks, you are actually taking longer to load pages some of the time. I can book mark not only the home page of a site if I want, but any page on the site I want. I often book mark a page that contains specific information or material I may want to refer to again or read all of if I have read part of it and want to return. I can use history for the same thing, but book marks may be faster and more convenient. Also, if I keep book marks, since they don't slow page loading down, if I do clear history at some point because it may be slowing page loading, the book marks are still present.
I really don't feel like typing every address of every page I want to go to every time I want to open that page, which I have previously visited.

If history becomes too large and/or if the cache becomes too large, that may slow page loading. But they have to become large. I don't delete the cache nor history except if I notice slowness of performance and one or both are large. I delete whatever I think may be large enough to impact performance, not both at once without considering when I deleted history or the cache last.

Deleting the cache before it grows too large may actually cause some pages to load a little more slowly, though I think the difference would be slight on a reasonably fast broad band connection.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: zahra
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2021 1:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

i set my firefox to cleans all data including history when closing.
i also dont use bookmark.
i believe that its one of the advantages of firefox that my firefox is
always like the time when i installed it for the first time.
i believe that saving data may cause slowness of firefox or any browser.

On 4/5/21, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't clean anything unless there is a reason such as slower performance.

I want my history because now and then, I want to go back to a site I didn't

book mark. Also, for those who use visited links when browsing, if you
clear your history, you will not have any more visited links. I have no
objection to clearing history or the cache if there is a reason to do so. I

object to doing maintenance when there is no need on some sort of schedule
or periodicallly just because time [passes.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2021 2:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome



I do that from time to time. You clean out your chrome Hystery and data. I
learned that when trying to study for my food save exam. The online
instructor told me you have to clean your browsing hystery from time to
time. I don’t know why but you do. Then it will run better.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10





From: Marco Oros
Sent: April 4, 2021 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome





I don't know It.



But, I have fixed this problem. I have deleted everything not on My

computer, but also sinced data and after that, Google Chrome again works

good.





Dňa 4. 4. 2021 o 18:39 zahra napísal(a):

hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!
On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.
I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My
computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there
is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know
why.
For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It
better, because I am not English native speaker.
Can I fix this problem?
Thank You.
Marco Oros




















--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

i set my firefox to cleans all data including history when closing.
i also dont use bookmark.
i believe that its one of the advantages of firefox that my firefox is
always like the time when i installed it for the first time.
i believe that saving data may cause slowness of firefox or any browser.

On 4/5/21, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't clean anything unless there is a reason such as slower performance.

I want my history because now and then, I want to go back to a site I didn't

book mark. Also, for those who use visited links when browsing, if you
clear your history, you will not have any more visited links. I have no
objection to clearing history or the cache if there is a reason to do so. I

object to doing maintenance when there is no need on some sort of schedule
or periodicallly just because time [passes.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2021 2:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome



I do that from time to time. You clean out your chrome Hystery and data. I
learned that when trying to study for my food save exam. The online
instructor told me you have to clean your browsing hystery from time to
time. I don’t know why but you do. Then it will run better.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10





From: Marco Oros
Sent: April 4, 2021 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome





I don't know It.



But, I have fixed this problem. I have deleted everything not on My

computer, but also sinced data and after that, Google Chrome again works

good.





Dňa 4. 4. 2021 o 18:39 zahra napísal(a):

hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!
On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.
I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My
computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there
is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know
why.
For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It
better, because I am not English native speaker.
Can I fix this problem?
Thank You.
Marco Oros



















--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Gene
 

I don't clean anything unless there is a reason such as slower performance. I want my history because now and then, I want to go back to a site I didn't book mark. Also, for those who use visited links when browsing, if you clear your history, you will not have any more visited links. I have no objection to clearing history or the cache if there is a reason to do so. I object to doing maintenance when there is no need on some sort of schedule or periodicallly just because time [passes.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2021 2:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome



I do that from time to time. You clean out your chrome Hystery and data. I learned that when trying to study for my food save exam. The online instructor told me you have to clean your browsing hystery from time to time. I don’t know why but you do. Then it will run better.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10





From: Marco Oros
Sent: April 4, 2021 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome





I don't know It.



But, I have fixed this problem. I have deleted everything not on My

computer, but also sinced data and after that, Google Chrome again works

good.





Dňa 4. 4. 2021 o 18:39 zahra napísal(a):

hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!
On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.
I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My
computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there
is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know why.
For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It
better, because I am not English native speaker.
Can I fix this problem?
Thank You.
Marco Oros


Arlene
 

I do that from time to time. You clean out your chrome Hystery and data. I learned that when trying to study for my food save exam. The online instructor told me you have to clean your browsing hystery from time to time. I don’t know why but you do. Then it will run better.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Marco Oros
Sent: April 4, 2021 12:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

 

I don't know It.

 

But, I have fixed this problem. I have deleted everything not on My

computer, but also sinced data and after that, Google Chrome again works

good.

 

 

Dňa 4. 4. 2021 o 18:39 zahra napísal(a):

> hello.

> how much ram do you have?

> i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.

> i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.

> i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.

> my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!

> On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@...> wrote:

>> Hello.

>> 

>> I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My

>> computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there

>> is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know why.

>> 

>> For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later

>> key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It

>> better, because I am not English native speaker.

>> 

>> Can I fix this problem?

>> 

>> Thank You.

>> 

>> Marco Oros

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

 

 

 

 

 


Marco Oros
 

I don't know It.

But, I have fixed this problem. I have deleted everything not on My computer, but also sinced data and after that, Google Chrome again works good.


Dňa 4. 4. 2021 o 18:39 zahra napísal(a):

hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!

On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.

I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My
computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there
is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know why.

For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It
better, because I am not English native speaker.

Can I fix this problem?

Thank You.

Marco Oros







Gene
 

I don't know what you read or where, but that isn't true.
I run it using 4GB of RAM, using Windows 7 and either it, or Google based browsers, and they run fine. I also have plenty of RAM to run what else I run. It may be that there are problems involving RAM. I don't know. There may be a memory leak, for example so using Google for long periods may cause it to use increasing amounts of RAM or maybe having a lot of tabs opened may use a lot of RAM, I don't know. But any browser requiring 8GB of RAM wouldn't be widely used..

In addition, it is generally stated that computers of today, running Windows 10 should have 8GB of RAM as the minimum, though you can use less.
\
I just checked. When I have Chrome opened and a web page loaded in one tab, my memory use, when few other programs are running is somewhere around 58 percent. If I close Chrome, it goes down to about 52 percent.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: zahra
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2021 11:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Strange behaviour of Google Chrome

hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!

On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.

I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My
computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there
is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know why.

For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It
better, because I am not English native speaker.

Can I fix this problem?

Thank You.

Marco Oros







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 12:17 AM, Marco Oros wrote:
Can I fix this problem?
-
I honestly do not know.  I hope that someone else may.

That being said, there are many Chromium-based web browsers to choose from besides Google Chrome if that's the one you like and are used to.  Brave, Edge, and Vivaldi are but three, and there are others.  Consider giving one of the alternatives a go to see if it does not misbehave in the way that Chrome is.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


 

hello.
how much ram do you have?
i read that google chrome is very intensive in using system resources.
i believe that you need at least 8 gb of ram to use chrome properly.
i really dont like and cant accept chrome and never use it.
my laptop has only 2.5 gb of ram!

On 3/28/21, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.

I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My
computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there
is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know why.

For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later
key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It
better, because I am not English native speaker.

Can I fix this problem?

Thank You.

Marco Oros






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Marco Oros
 

Hello.

I don't know, why, but Google Chrome sometimes behave very strange on My computer. For example, I am working on Google Chrome and sometimes there is something, like later echo. Not often, but sometimes. I don't know why.

For example, I am writing on Google chrome and sometimes It says later key, which I pressed, not at same time. I don't know, how to explain It better, because I am not English native speaker.

Can I fix this problem?

Thank You.

Marco Oros