[Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA


Steve Nutt
 

Also, other screen reader manuals refer to them as star and slash, so they should at least be referenced as such.

All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 08 April 2021 23:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

That may be but I think the other way to refer to the keys should be given, perhaps in parenthesis. So numpad divide might be listed as numpad divide (slash). I generally see these keys referred to as slash and star, as I recall in discussions on various blind user lists I'm on.

gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2021 5:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 05:47 PM, David Russell wrote:
wonder what is meant by commands numpad-divide or numpad-multiply?- Exactly what they say. There are conventions for referring to specific keys on and surrounding the Number Pad as there are on the regular keyboard, and the 4 primary operations are:

Multiply - which is always the star/asterisk if you are looking at the character
Divide - which is always the slash
Plus - self explanatory
Minus - also pretty much self explanatory, but one could also say it's
the dash/hyphen

It is far more conventional to refer to number pad keys by their actual mathematical function, not as though they were alternative ways to enter those four text characters, but you can, of course, use them that way, as they can serve that purpose whether or not number lock is on.

The NVDA documentation follows the most common terminology for making reference to those key, by mathematical sign/function.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless
you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


 

On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 06:56 PM, Blaster wrote:
Google Chrome extension which disables this overlay on any website it encounters
-
Which should work under any Chromium-based browser, including Edge.  All you have to do is enable the installation of Chrome Store extensions under Edge:
1. Open Extensions from the Edge Menu
2. At the bottom of the Extensions page is a toggle for Allow extensions from other stores.  Turn it on.
3. Navigate to the Chrome Store page for the extension you want (within Edge) and activate the Add to Chrome button.  The button label does not change unless something's been tweaked in that regard very recently.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Blaster
 

Hi all,

The Mosen at large podcast is definitely worth listening to, it's
quite disturbing. Mike Calvo and Matt Campbell developed a free Google
Chrome extension which disables this overlay on any website it
encounters with no need for the user to do anything, it's all
automatic. They said their working on an Edge and Firefox version as
well. Here's the link to the extension on the Google Play store, it's
called "AccesiByeBye".

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/accessibyebye/ikcamkknjfdplkdjjncobgmpciklohjg/related

HTH,
Blaster

On 4/10/21, Jonathan COHN via groups.io
<jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
This site is usingaccessiBe overlay to modify their page. Jonathan Mosen did
a entire show just about this overlay. I have a few opinions on this, but
will be refraining and speaking them here.

On Apr 10, 2021, at 13:10, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hello NVDA,

For the sake of update or summary, thanks everyone for your input into
this topic.
I am curious to know a little more about the option to use what is
called 'screen reader mode.'
Is this a way for websites to make their offerings or content more
accessible to those using screen readers?

Can a website detect when someone is visiting their website and
cookies gather what browser they are using and specialized
peripherals?
On Thursday, it appeared I was just one of the fray interested in
applying to webull.com. On Friday, the screen reader mode option was
read to me.

I gather from the information in the NVDA manual, and that found at
other websites like computer hope.com, that there are different ways
to use the mouse together with NVDA. Is that a correct assumption?

Like Sarah, I too learn what I have to do in order to accomplish what
I do on the computer or any mobile device. Hence, my skills, too, are
perhaps limited or defined.

I will check back when the daily summary appears in my inbox on Sunday
to read what replies may appear. Again, much thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author










Gene
 

My point, if my message wasn't clear, is that you can't discuss these things, which should be discussed in a screen-reader user guide, without explaining briefly what browse mode is and then explaining what I discussed.

Browse mode is not a part of Windows or of Windows programs. it is a screen-reader feature, just as object navigation or screen review is.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 4:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

The user should know something about the virtual pc cursor or browse mode,
as NVDA calls it. If they don't, they won't know why you switch browse mode
off for certain reasons and then on again. They won't know that the web
page, as they experience it may not be laid out the same way as a sighted
person sees it and won't be able to translate what a sighted person tells
them to where something might be on the page. They won't understand that at
times, if you turhn off browse mode, you may see a control that, for some
reason, you won't if it is on and even if they know that, they won't
understand why. They should know that quick navigation commands are used in
browse mode and that they are not a part of a sighted person browsing the
web.

An exhaustive technical knowledge of browse mode isn't necessary. You do
need to know that you are using a cursor that doesn't exist on the web page
and a sighted person doesn't see one. You should know the things I stated
above if you are a serious Internet user.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:28 PM, tim wrote:
And yes, in college your are expected to know some stuff. They don't spoon
feed.-
And the issue of spoon-feeding aside, as I don't think that's exactly what's
being asked for here, there is, as I have asserted earlier, every reason for
software developers for Windows, in the year 2021, to believe that they do
not and should not have to discuss certain Windows basics as part of their
training manuals and certain terminology, either.

People can, and will, occasionally have gaps in their knowledge. I have
gaps in my knowledge. I had to get a lot of instruction on the concept of
the virtual cursor when I first started working with screen readers. But I
don't expect that the documentation on how to use a screen reader is likely
even to discuss the virtual cursor because it's an "under the hood" feature
that the end user really has no need to know much about in "daily driving"
with a screen reader.

If something is unfamiliar in a given piece of documentation then the
appropriate course of action is to ask about it. Sometimes, and only
sometimes, it is absolutely apropriate to update the documentation. Others
it's appropriate to leave it be because the majority of readers will know
the terminology already, or ask about it once. That's why it's always handy
to have a section dedicated to standard notation in a given piece of
documentation as abbreviations often get used, e.g., NVDA+{whatever}, where
NVDA in that context could be either INSERT or CAPS LOCK, depending on the
keyboard layout. But I don't want, "NVDA+N (INSERT+N for desktop, CAPS
LOCK+N for laptop keyboard layouts, respectively)" everywhere NVDA+N is
used. There is every reason that the reader of something like the NVDA User
Guide should have probably either reviewed, or will look up, the concept of
the NVDA key when they're unfamiliar with that notation.

You cannot and should not presume "blank slates" when writing documentation
because it then becomes an ever expanding task when you cannot make
reasonable base assumptions about the skill sets of individuals coming to
that documentation.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless
you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


Gene
 

The user should know something about the virtual pc cursor or browse mode, as NVDA calls it. If they don't, they won't know why you switch browse mode off for certain reasons and then on again. They won't know that the web page, as they experience it may not be laid out the same way as a sighted person sees it and won't be able to translate what a sighted person tells them to where something might be on the page. They won't understand that at times, if you turhn off browse mode, you may see a control that, for some reason, you won't if it is on and even if they know that, they won't understand why. They should know that quick navigation commands are used in browse mode and that they are not a part of a sighted person browsing the web.

An exhaustive technical knowledge of browse mode isn't necessary. You do need to know that you are using a cursor that doesn't exist on the web page and a sighted person doesn't see one. You should know the things I stated above if you are a serious Internet user.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:28 PM, tim wrote:
And yes, in college your are expected to know some stuff. They don't spoon feed.-
And the issue of spoon-feeding aside, as I don't think that's exactly what's being asked for here, there is, as I have asserted earlier, every reason for software developers for Windows, in the year 2021, to believe that they do not and should not have to discuss certain Windows basics as part of their training manuals and certain terminology, either.

People can, and will, occasionally have gaps in their knowledge. I have gaps in my knowledge. I had to get a lot of instruction on the concept of the virtual cursor when I first started working with screen readers. But I don't expect that the documentation on how to use a screen reader is likely even to discuss the virtual cursor because it's an "under the hood" feature that the end user really has no need to know much about in "daily driving" with a screen reader.

If something is unfamiliar in a given piece of documentation then the appropriate course of action is to ask about it. Sometimes, and only sometimes, it is absolutely apropriate to update the documentation. Others it's appropriate to leave it be because the majority of readers will know the terminology already, or ask about it once. That's why it's always handy to have a section dedicated to standard notation in a given piece of documentation as abbreviations often get used, e.g., NVDA+{whatever}, where NVDA in that context could be either INSERT or CAPS LOCK, depending on the keyboard layout. But I don't want, "NVDA+N (INSERT+N for desktop, CAPS LOCK+N for laptop keyboard layouts, respectively)" everywhere NVDA+N is used. There is every reason that the reader of something like the NVDA User Guide should have probably either reviewed, or will look up, the concept of the NVDA key when they're unfamiliar with that notation.

You cannot and should not presume "blank slates" when writing documentation because it then becomes an ever expanding task when you cannot make reasonable base assumptions about the skill sets of individuals coming to that documentation.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


Jonathan COHN
 

This site is usingaccessiBe overlay to modify their page. Jonathan Mosen did a entire show just about this overlay. I have a few opinions on this, but will be refraining and speaking them here.

On Apr 10, 2021, at 13:10, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello NVDA,

For the sake of update or summary, thanks everyone for your input into
this topic.
I am curious to know a little more about the option to use what is
called 'screen reader mode.'
Is this a way for websites to make their offerings or content more
accessible to those using screen readers?

Can a website detect when someone is visiting their website and
cookies gather what browser they are using and specialized
peripherals?
On Thursday, it appeared I was just one of the fray interested in
applying to webull.com. On Friday, the screen reader mode option was
read to me.

I gather from the information in the NVDA manual, and that found at
other websites like computer hope.com, that there are different ways
to use the mouse together with NVDA. Is that a correct assumption?

Like Sarah, I too learn what I have to do in order to accomplish what
I do on the computer or any mobile device. Hence, my skills, too, are
perhaps limited or defined.

I will check back when the daily summary appears in my inbox on Sunday
to read what replies may appear. Again, much thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author





 

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:28 PM, tim wrote:
And yes, in college your are expected to know some stuff. They don't spoon feed.
-
And the issue of spoon-feeding aside, as I don't think that's exactly what's being asked for here, there is, as I have asserted earlier, every reason for software developers for Windows, in the year 2021, to believe that they do not and should not have to discuss certain Windows basics as part of their training manuals and certain terminology, either.

People can, and will, occasionally have gaps in their knowledge.  I have gaps in my knowledge.  I had to get a lot of instruction on the concept of the virtual cursor when I first started working with screen readers.  But I don't expect that the documentation on how to use a screen reader is likely even to discuss the virtual cursor because it's an "under the hood" feature that the end user really has no need to know much about in "daily driving" with a screen reader.

If something is unfamiliar in a given piece of documentation then the appropriate course of action is to ask about it.  Sometimes, and only sometimes, it is absolutely apropriate to update the documentation.  Others it's appropriate to leave it be because the majority of readers will know the terminology already, or ask about it once.  That's why it's always handy to have a section dedicated to standard notation in a given piece of documentation as abbreviations often get used, e.g., NVDA+{whatever}, where NVDA in that context could be either INSERT or CAPS LOCK, depending on the keyboard layout.  But I don't want, "NVDA+N (INSERT+N for desktop, CAPS LOCK+N for laptop keyboard layouts, respectively)" everywhere NVDA+N is used.  There is every reason that the reader of something like the NVDA User Guide should have probably either reviewed, or will look up, the concept of the NVDA key when they're unfamiliar with that notation.

You cannot and should not presume "blank slates" when writing documentation because it then becomes an ever expanding task when you cannot make reasonable base assumptions about the skill sets of individuals coming to that documentation. 
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


David Russell
 

Hello NVDA,

For the sake of update or summary, thanks everyone for your input into
this topic.
I am curious to know a little more about the option to use what is
called 'screen reader mode.'
Is this a way for websites to make their offerings or content more
accessible to those using screen readers?

Can a website detect when someone is visiting their website and
cookies gather what browser they are using and specialized
peripherals?
On Thursday, it appeared I was just one of the fray interested in
applying to webull.com. On Friday, the screen reader mode option was
read to me.

I gather from the information in the NVDA manual, and that found at
other websites like computer hope.com, that there are different ways
to use the mouse together with NVDA. Is that a correct assumption?

Like Sarah, I too learn what I have to do in order to accomplish what
I do on the computer or any mobile device. Hence, my skills, too, are
perhaps limited or defined.

I will check back when the daily summary appears in my inbox on Sunday
to read what replies may appear. Again, much thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author


tim
 

I can under stan some not knowing, because if you used a laptop not all have num pads.
Personally I don't like them, about ripped a pinky off speed typing.

On 4/9/2021 6:12 PM, David Moore wrote:
I was totally blind in high school in the early '80s! I learned then, that the Slash and star keys Ment divide or multiply! I don't remember how, either someone told me, but I did a lot of calculations on in IBM PC in the middle 80s. I cannot imagine that a totally blind person could use a computer for any length of time and not know that! This concerns me a great deal! I have always had many sided friends, family, and others describing things for me! I believe that is the root problem here for so many blind individuals. They do not have enough sided people in their life describing and interacting with what they do as a blind person. I have cited friends who I have taught English one Braille to, alphabet and numbers, and they can use a slate and stylus. These friends are so interested in how I do things. I think we need to learn how a sided person sees, does, and how the sided persons experience is when they work with technology. It really helps me, I know that, to visualize in if I know how a screen of a phone looks to a sided person, it helps me so much to visualize that in my head. Caveat, though, I did have a little reading vision until I was 12. Maybe that is the entire difference for me, I don't know! I actually learned as a child how everything looked like in print! I wonder if that makes a difference right there! Take care guys, very interesting discussion.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021, 5:56 PM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com <mailto:gsasner@gmail.com>> wrote:
I see no reason to believe I am unique.  I took a good training
course, I
looked at screen-reader documentation in the late nineties when I
was first
learning Windows, and I didn't have the slash and star keys
described as
divide or multiply.  I learned it later, I don't recall how.  for all I
know, I may have learned it by using the key describer.  On what do
you base
your contention or assumption that blind computer users generally
know this?
All I said is that the keys be identified as both when discussing mouse
movement.  that is not unreasonable, given what I suspect is the
experience
of a good many blind people.  If your impression is based on formerly
sighted people knowing this, that isn't a valid basis.  People who were
blind when they start learning about computers may well not have
been taught
these numpad keys as mathematical functions.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2021 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 12:49 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't use, and have never used a number pad-
Which, Sarah, makes you a member of a very tiny minority of computer
users,
sighted or blind.   Again, knowing when one is far from the mean in
a bell
curve distribution is a pretty vital skill.
One does not create documentation "for the masses" that covers each and
every rare eventuality.  In fact, if one wants it to be as succinct as
possible, one avoids doing precisely that.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win
unless
you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.
       ~ Richard M. Nixon


tim
 

True, the only way someone would know them keys is if you used a accounting calculator, because the num pad is laid out the same key pattern.
That is why you see the same key pattern on standard 104 keyboards.
I learned it in accounting classes, and when I taught dos/windows it was never gone over in class. Assumed, because typing being a requirement. And yes, in college your are expected to know some stuff. They don't spoon feed.


Luke Davis
 

Back to the original issue, David Russell wrote:

Gene, and all, the problem occurs with this application form, (see
sample in my previous post) that each question has the "choose one"
command. The combo-box may be embedded on the line that says, choose
one.
Along with the excellent suggestions from others, may I suggest that when you get to the line with the combo box on it, you press the letter f, to jump to the next formfield? This might move you to whatever these combo boxes are.
Then try the space key to "activate" them (or do as others have suggested).

I do remind you to check your browse mode settins, and make sure you have "use browse mode on page load" checked. Also perhaps uncheck the one before it: "use screen layout when supported".
I described the first of these in an earlier message to you.

> I was using page down and enter, or enter and page down to

I'm not sure where you got page down in this context, but I'm pretty sure it has no value for moving between or within fields, and in fact will make you miss lots of content.

If I down arrow, as in the sample sent, other questions follow until
the end and one reads
Continue
Continue should say "button" after it. If it doesn't, your settings are very strange.

Luke, I am reluctant to try the thing you suggested in NVDA tools, I
am unaware of that feature.
It's in the user manual. And it can't hurt anything.
But that's your choice.

Luke


David Moore
 

I was totally blind in high school in the early '80s! I learned then, that the Slash and star keys Ment divide or multiply! I don't remember how, either someone told me, but I did a lot of calculations on in IBM PC in the middle 80s. I cannot imagine that a totally blind person could use a computer for any length of time and not know that! This concerns me a great deal! I have always had many sided friends, family, and others describing things for me! I believe that is the root problem here for so many blind individuals. They do not have enough sided people in their life describing and interacting with what they do as a blind person. I have cited friends who I have taught English one Braille to, alphabet and numbers, and they can use a slate and stylus. These friends are so interested in how I do things. I think we need to learn how a sided person sees, does, and how the sided persons experience is when they work with technology. It really helps me, I know that, to visualize in if I know how a screen of a phone looks to a sided person, it helps me so much to visualize that in my head. Caveat, though, I did have a little reading vision until I was 12. Maybe that is the entire difference for me, I don't know! I actually learned as a child how everything looked like in print! I wonder if that makes a difference right there! Take care guys, very interesting discussion.


On Fri, Apr 9, 2021, 5:56 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I see no reason to believe I am unique.  I took a good training course, I
looked at screen-reader documentation in the late nineties when I was first
learning Windows, and I didn't have the slash and star keys described as
divide or multiply.  I learned it later, I don't recall how.  for all I
know, I may have learned it by using the key describer.  On what do you base
your contention or assumption that blind computer users generally know this?

All I said is that the keys be identified as both when discussing mouse
movement.  that is not unreasonable, given what I suspect is the experience
of a good many blind people.  If your impression is based on formerly
sighted people knowing this, that isn't a valid basis.  People who were
blind when they start learning about computers may well not have been taught
these numpad keys as mathematical functions.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2021 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 12:49 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't use, and have never used a number pad-
Which, Sarah, makes you a member of a very tiny minority of computer users,
sighted or blind.   Again, knowing when one is far from the mean in a bell
curve distribution is a pretty vital skill.

One does not create documentation "for the masses" that covers each and
every rare eventuality.  In fact, if one wants it to be as succinct as
possible, one avoids doing precisely that.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless
you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon











Gene
 

Evidently, you are saying you don't find a combo box or any structure corresponding to those lines. That's what I wanted to clarify. Your talk of using page down or enter and page down is confusing because that isn't the way to open combo boxes. You use enter on a combo box to go into forms mode or turn off browse mode, whatever your screen-reader calls it. If a combo box contains java script, once you are in forms mode. the command to open the combo box is control down arrow. You never use page down for this purpose with or without control. If you wish, you can issue the open command on any combo box whether it uses JAVA Script or not, though it will only affect the operation if it has JAVA script.

Since you are saying that you see no combo box, it may be there but not accessible to a screen-reader. You may not be able to work with it.

I have two suggestions. They are worth trying, but I'm doubtful they will work.

One is to try another browser and another screen-reader. You never know what the result might be. To discuss which other browser would be good to try, we have to know which one you are using now.

Here is the other suggestion:
If you are using JAWS, turn off the virtual PC cursor with JAWS key z. Now, tab and see if you see a combo box you didn't see before. Once you have finished looking, use the same command, JAWS key z to turn on the virtual pc cursor again.

If you are using NVDA, use the command NVDA key space to do the same thing and tab as discussed above. When finished, use the same command, NVDA space bar, to turn on browse mode again.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: David Russell
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2021 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Activating The Mouse CT

Hello NVDA,

Gene, and all, the problem occurs with this application form, (see
sample in my previous post) that each question has the "choose one"
command. The combo-box may be embedded on the line that says, choose
one.
I was using page down and enter, or enter and page down to force the
combo-box to open on earlier application questions, such as address,
city, and state; the state to choose was in a combo-box.
I had to often repeat page down enter, or enter page down, to get it
to behave as wanted.

If I down arrow, as in the sample sent, other questions follow until
the end and one reads
Continue
I guess the question is more how to force a combo-box to open if it is
truly embedded.

Luke, I am reluctant to try the thing you suggested in NVDA tools, I
am unaware of that feature.

Sorry to hear that shift-control-f doesn't work, but will try Jackie's
suggestion, NVDA-enter on the line in question.
Cheers,

David
--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


Gene
 

I see no reason to believe I am unique. I took a good training course, I looked at screen-reader documentation in the late nineties when I was first learning Windows, and I didn't have the slash and star keys described as divide or multiply. I learned it later, I don't recall how. for all I know, I may have learned it by using the key describer. On what do you base your contention or assumption that blind computer users generally know this?

All I said is that the keys be identified as both when discussing mouse movement. that is not unreasonable, given what I suspect is the experience of a good many blind people. If your impression is based on formerly sighted people knowing this, that isn't a valid basis. People who were blind when they start learning about computers may well not have been taught these numpad keys as mathematical functions.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2021 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 12:49 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't use, and have never used a number pad-
Which, Sarah, makes you a member of a very tiny minority of computer users, sighted or blind. Again, knowing when one is far from the mean in a bell curve distribution is a pretty vital skill.

One does not create documentation "for the masses" that covers each and every rare eventuality. In fact, if one wants it to be as succinct as possible, one avoids doing precisely that.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


Sarah k Alawami
 

Nope. I don't even bother learning it. Right now due to my brain issue I tend to forget as soon as I'm told, and I have to repeat things probably 20 or 30 times until I get it. But I'm one who will just stick with what I know to avoid any stress on my battered brain.

For the person with the truly embedded combo box if you tab can you then hit alt down arrow to open the "one" combo box and hope it is the right one when looking at context?

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

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On 9 Apr 2021, at 14:12, Chris Smart wrote:

Ok, I just hope you can teach the other keyboard style as well.

Even the notebook I use sometimes has a numpad.



On 2021-04-09 5:09 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I have. I hate it. It was on a desktop in 2009 or so. I turned off desktop nav and used laptop layout as for me it is much much faster. My hands get tired easily so if I don't have to move them a lot, that is good. I can work longer hours doing what I love.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 9 Apr 2021, at 9:54, Chris Smart wrote:

Gosh, you should try a full-size keyboard sometime.




On 2021-04-09 12:49 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actually it's not knowledge for me. I don't use, and have never used a number pad so I just assumed that they were known as slash and dash. Not devide and minus. Same with star and times. I never actually had a sighted person draw them out with wiki sticks for me to feel. Or, maybe I did when I was little but I don't remember.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 8 Apr 2021, at 15:56, Brian Vogel wrote:

Gene,

If someone wishes to write it this way, have at it.  But we're back to one of those things on which we're likely to never agree.  I believe that very common conventions, across many forms of documentation, for referring to number pad keys need to be known by "the average computer user."  It is no help to make documentation longer, and more complicated, assuming that this is not something commonly known, in my opinion.

Asterisk as the multiply operator and slash as the divide operator predate the PC, and have been in use in that way on many adding machines for decades now, particularly after the PC appeared.

Numpad multiply and numpad divide need to be understood under those terms, and I'd rather the rare person who doesn't already know them do what Mr. Russell did and ask.  There's nothing wrong with having a very occasional gap in common knowledge and asking to fill it in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Chris Smart
 

Ok, I just hope you can teach the other keyboard style as well.

Even the notebook I use sometimes has a numpad.



On 2021-04-09 5:09 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I have. I hate it. It was on a desktop in 2009 or so. I turned off desktop nav and used laptop layout as for me it is much much faster. My hands get tired easily so if I don't have to move them a lot, that is good. I can work longer hours doing what I love.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 9 Apr 2021, at 9:54, Chris Smart wrote:

Gosh, you should try a full-size keyboard sometime.




On 2021-04-09 12:49 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actually it's not knowledge for me. I don't use, and have never used a number pad so I just assumed that they were known as slash and dash. Not devide and minus. Same with star and times. I never actually had a sighted person draw them out with wiki sticks for me to feel. Or, maybe I did when I was little but I don't remember.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 8 Apr 2021, at 15:56, Brian Vogel wrote:

Gene,

If someone wishes to write it this way, have at it.  But we're back to one of those things on which we're likely to never agree.  I believe that very common conventions, across many forms of documentation, for referring to number pad keys need to be known by "the average computer user."  It is no help to make documentation longer, and more complicated, assuming that this is not something commonly known, in my opinion.

Asterisk as the multiply operator and slash as the divide operator predate the PC, and have been in use in that way on many adding machines for decades now, particularly after the PC appeared.

Numpad multiply and numpad divide need to be understood under those terms, and I'd rather the rare person who doesn't already know them do what Mr. Russell did and ask.  There's nothing wrong with having a very occasional gap in common knowledge and asking to fill it in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

I have. I hate it. It was on a desktop in 2009 or so. I turned off desktop nav and used laptop layout as for me it is much much faster. My hands get tired easily so if I don't have to move them a lot, that is good. I can work longer hours doing what I love.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 9 Apr 2021, at 9:54, Chris Smart wrote:

Gosh, you should try a full-size keyboard sometime.




On 2021-04-09 12:49 p.m., Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actually it's not knowledge for me. I don't use, and have never used a number pad so I just assumed that they were known as slash and dash. Not devide and minus. Same with star and times. I never actually had a sighted person draw them out with wiki sticks for me to feel. Or, maybe I did when I was little but I don't remember.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 8 Apr 2021, at 15:56, Brian Vogel wrote:

Gene,

If someone wishes to write it this way, have at it.  But we're back to one of those things on which we're likely to never agree.  I believe that very common conventions, across many forms of documentation, for referring to number pad keys need to be known by "the average computer user."  It is no help to make documentation longer, and more complicated, assuming that this is not something commonly known, in my opinion.

Asterisk as the multiply operator and slash as the divide operator predate the PC, and have been in use in that way on many adding machines for decades now, particularly after the PC appeared.

Numpad multiply and numpad divide need to be understood under those terms, and I'd rather the rare person who doesn't already know them do what Mr. Russell did and ask.  There's nothing wrong with having a very occasional gap in common knowledge and asking to fill it in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


David Russell
 

Hello NVDA,

The issue turned out to be turning screen reading mode on to fill in
the combo-boxes.
Hot keys were read to do this. I will not share them as they may be
unique to the webull.com program. Yay and thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
PS27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen
thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.


 

A quick reminder to the membership that's reading this topic (or I should say, topics, which is the problem):  The group rules strongly discourage the intentional splitting of topics unless there is an actual spin-off conversation not related to the original one, which happens.

This topic was the original one, and there have been two split from it, one entitled, "Activating The Mouse CT," and the other, "Activating The Mouse CT2."  But all of these are about the same issues at hand.  I have been merging these in to the original topic on the archive, but I would really appreciate it if subsequent follow-ups are made to only the topic entitled, "Activating the Mouse with NVDA", moving forward to keep everything together for this particular tightly-related cluster of issues. It makes my life much easier, and the archive far easier to search for those who do so later.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


David Russell
 

Hello NVDA,

Gene, and all, the problem occurs with this application form, (see
sample in my previous post) that each question has the "choose one"
command. The combo-box may be embedded on the line that says, choose
one.
I was using page down and enter, or enter and page down to force the
combo-box to open on earlier application questions, such as address,
city, and state; the state to choose was in a combo-box.
I had to often repeat page down enter, or enter page down, to get it
to behave as wanted.

If I down arrow, as in the sample sent, other questions follow until
the end and one reads
Continue
I guess the question is more how to force a combo-box to open if it is
truly embedded.

Luke, I am reluctant to try the thing you suggested in NVDA tools, I
am unaware of that feature.

Sorry to hear that shift-control-f doesn't work, but will try Jackie's
suggestion, NVDA-enter on the line in question.
Cheers,

David
--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com