On posting e-mail addresses in messages - Please don't #adminnotice


 

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 02:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I hope the discussion helps others with problems that might be resolved in this way.
-
As do I, and it's not limited to Windows, or Office, or NVDA, or any particular single thing or cluster of things.  Turning something off and on again, uninstalling/removing and then promptly reinstalling, or similar is one of the fundamental troubleshooting and diagnostic steps for anything.  We've seen plenty of instances over the years where toggling an NVDA setting that's misbehaving magically makes it behave again, even though what you're setting it to in the end is what it was set to in the beginning.

The one thing I'll add is that it's never a bad idea to toggle the setting, exit whatever it is you toggled it for, restart, then toggle it back.  That's not absolutely essential, but there are occasions where the straight toggle doesn't work, but where toggle-exit-restart-toggle does.  And, no, don't anyone dare ask me why, as no technician in the world has the answer to that mystery!
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Gene
 

I hope the discussion helps others with problems that might be resolved in this way.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] On posting e-mail addresses in messages - Please don't #adminnotice

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 02:24 PM, Gene wrote:
I corrected the problem by making another e-mail program the default, then making Windows Live Mail the default again.-
Which indicates that there was some small corruption in your existing setup. And I say that because there are all sorts of small corruptions that can creep in on any system and through no direct user action.

What you did, which is a great idea, is the equivalent of the oft-given question/advice: Did you turn it off and on again? Resetting a given setting, saving it, then setting it back to what you thought it was in the first place (but wasn't acting that way) is a great simple diagnostic. It doesn't always work, nothing will, but things that are dirt simple to try and take mere minutes are worth trying.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


 

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 02:24 PM, Gene wrote:
I corrected the problem by making another e-mail program the default, then making Windows Live Mail the default again.
-
Which indicates that there was some small corruption in your existing setup.  And I say that because there are all sorts of small corruptions that can creep in on any system and through no direct user action.

What you did, which is a great idea, is the equivalent of the oft-given question/advice:  Did you turn it off and on again?    Resetting a given setting, saving it, then setting it back to what you thought it was in the first place (but wasn't acting that way) is a great simple diagnostic.  It doesn't always work, nothing will, but things that are dirt simple to try and take mere minutes are worth trying.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Gene
 

I corrected the problem by making another e-mail program the default, then making Windows Live Mail the default again. Now, a reply to the sender opens in Windows Live Mail.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] On posting e-mail addresses in messages - Please don't #adminnotice

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 01:23 PM, Gene wrote:
It looks as though when you follow the reply to sender link and you are using an e-mail program, that opens a browser-
It shouldn't. I'm not saying it doesn't, but that means something is configured wrong on the system in question.

The Reply to Sender link is a dirt common mailto: link. Activating a mailto: link should cause the default e-mail mechanism, be it an email client or webmail if the "flow through" has been configured (and that's extra steps in many cases), to open and behave as I previously stated. A web browser should not be opened unless the system in question has the default mail client set as a web browser. If that's happening, if you activate a mailto link anywhere outside your e-mail client it will likely open up the web browser. That can be tested on any webpage, usually Contact Us, that happens to have a mailto: link. If people want to test using my webpage, britechguy.com, feel free to do so. The main page has the word, with hyphen, e-mail immediately followed with a mailto link for the same address I use to subscribe here. On systems where an email client is configured as the default email mechanism it should cause a compose window to open with my email address prepopulated in the To field. When I activate it myself, I'm getting a pop-up dialog from the browser saying that it wants to open eM Client and would I allow that, and I have eM Client configured as my default email client at the moment on this machine.

As to non-Groups.io lists, I agree a document would be handy, but that's outside of the scope of what I am discussing here. I'm sticking to how Groups.io works.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


Gene
 

I'm not sure what I would change, perhaps there is a browser setting that needs to be changed. My e-mail program is set as the default program but there is some other problem. If others have this sort of problem, I found a work around that may be helpful.

If I am on the reply to sender link, I can use the context menu in Windows Live Mail and Firefox to copy the link or shortcut, whatever the e-mail program calls it to the clipboard. I can then start a new message and paste the address in. I may have to edit it, depending on what is copied to the clipboard, but the address is there.

I would expect this can be done in Outlook, I have no idea about the Windows 10 mail app.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] On posting e-mail addresses in messages - Please don't #adminnotice

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 01:23 PM, Gene wrote:
It looks as though when you follow the reply to sender link and you are using an e-mail program, that opens a browser-
It shouldn't. I'm not saying it doesn't, but that means something is configured wrong on the system in question.

The Reply to Sender link is a dirt common mailto: link. Activating a mailto: link should cause the default e-mail mechanism, be it an email client or webmail if the "flow through" has been configured (and that's extra steps in many cases), to open and behave as I previously stated. A web browser should not be opened unless the system in question has the default mail client set as a web browser. If that's happening, if you activate a mailto link anywhere outside your e-mail client it will likely open up the web browser. That can be tested on any webpage, usually Contact Us, that happens to have a mailto: link. If people want to test using my webpage, britechguy.com, feel free to do so. The main page has the word, with hyphen, e-mail immediately followed with a mailto link for the same address I use to subscribe here. On systems where an email client is configured as the default email mechanism it should cause a compose window to open with my email address prepopulated in the To field. When I activate it myself, I'm getting a pop-up dialog from the browser saying that it wants to open eM Client and would I allow that, and I have eM Client configured as my default email client at the moment on this machine.

As to non-Groups.io lists, I agree a document would be handy, but that's outside of the scope of what I am discussing here. I'm sticking to how Groups.io works.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


 

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 01:23 PM, Gene wrote:
It looks as though when you follow the reply to sender link and you are using an e-mail program, that opens a browser
-
It shouldn't.  I'm not saying it doesn't, but that means something is configured wrong on the system in question.

The Reply to Sender link is a dirt common mailto: link.  Activating a mailto: link should cause the default e-mail mechanism, be it an email client or webmail if the "flow through" has been configured (and that's extra steps in many cases), to open and behave as I previously stated.  A web browser should not be opened unless the system in question has the default mail client set as a web browser.  If that's happening, if you activate a mailto link anywhere outside your e-mail client it will likely open up the web browser.  That can be tested on any webpage, usually Contact Us, that happens to have a mailto: link.  If people want to test using my webpage, britechguy.com, feel free to do so.  The main page has the word, with hyphen, e-mail immediately followed with a mailto link for the same address I use to subscribe here.  On systems where an email client is configured as the default email mechanism it should cause a compose window to open with my email address prepopulated in the To field.  When I activate it myself, I'm getting a pop-up dialog from the browser saying that it wants to open eM Client and would I allow that, and I have eM Client configured as my default email client at the moment on this machine.

As to non-Groups.io lists, I agree a document would be handy, but that's outside of the scope of what I am discussing here.  I'm sticking to how Groups.io works.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Gene
 

It looks as though when you follow the reply to sender link and you are using an e-mail program, that opens a browser. But in my case, it doesn't work properly for some reason. One of my browsers opens but it never displays the interface for sending a reply in the browser. I think that since most people use e-mail programs on the list, it is much better to learn how to reply to the sender using the e-mail program. Perhaps a document with instructions could be compiled for different popular e-mail programs such as for thunderbird, Outlook, and perhaps one or two others.
this is something I've encouraged people to learn and I believe I've posted some information about doing this in the past.

Also, since not all groups people may want to join are Groups.io groups, that's another reason to compile such a document.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] On posting e-mail addresses in messages - Please don't #adminnotice

This is not "a group rule" but I'm posting about this because your own email address is something you don't want random bots that scour the net to be able to grab for phishing and other scamming purposes.

The NVDA Group archives are public, and, thus, not only indexed by search engines like Google, DuckDuckGo, StartPage, etc., but can also be crawled by any other individual or entity that wishes to do so. One of the most common ways to harvest email addresses is by crawling the web and looking for those posted out in the open, in all their glory. Even some of the older tricks like separating the first part of the address, at sign, and last part of the address cannot be ensured as being effective as the address is very simply reconstructed from same.

Every member can do as they see fit. I have generally "cleaned" messages of email addresses if I happen to read them shortly after they've been sent in hopes that the archive has not yet been crawled and the address harvested.

My recommendation on those occasions where you wish to be contacted off-group is to refer to the Reply to Sender link at the bottom of each message from Groups.io. Activating that should fire up your email mechanism of choice, be it an email client like Outlook or webmail, with the subject pre-populated with the prefix, Private:, followed by the topic title for the message itself and that message sender's email address in the To.

Your email address is not exposed using this method, as those links at the end of Groups.io messages that are automatically generated do not get saved in the archive. They're a part of individual email messages only.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


 

This is not "a group rule" but I'm posting about this because your own email address is something you don't want random bots that scour the net to be able to grab for phishing and other scamming purposes.

The NVDA Group archives are public, and, thus, not only indexed by search engines like Google, DuckDuckGo, StartPage, etc., but can also be crawled by any other individual or entity that wishes to do so.  One of the most common ways to harvest email addresses is by crawling the web and looking for those posted out in the open, in all their glory.  Even some of the older tricks like separating the first part of the address, at sign, and last part of the address cannot be ensured as being effective as the address is very simply reconstructed from same.

Every member can do as they see fit.  I have generally "cleaned" messages of email addresses if I happen to read them shortly after they've been sent in hopes that the archive has not yet been crawled and the address harvested.

My recommendation on those occasions where you wish to be contacted off-group is to refer to the Reply to Sender link at the bottom of each message from Groups.io.  Activating that should fire up your email mechanism of choice, be it an email client like Outlook or webmail, with the subject pre-populated with the prefix, Private:, followed by the topic title for the message itself and that message sender's email address in the To.  

Your email address is not exposed using this method, as those links at the end of Groups.io messages that are automatically generated do not get saved in the archive.  They're a part of individual email messages only.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon