|
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML
view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I
was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed
to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know
this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
|
|
|
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML
view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I
was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed
to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know
this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 04:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
- I'd attempt a coup, but then I would own this group! Horrors! The only thing I'll add is agreement with the general principle that revisiting "what I've always done" and "what I've always avoided" is a very good thing to do on a cyclic basis. And particularly when it comes to webmail, but way more generally than that. Nothing is so constant as change, and nowhere is change more constant than in the world of computing. And when it comes to accessibility, it has done nothing but improve in the big picture as time has marched on (and that's acknowledging that there are episodes of "two steps forward, one step back"). --
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
~ Richard M. Nixon
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Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the
shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find
it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an
exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this
list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use
web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new
accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the
old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of
Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does
not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not
necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator,
will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus
mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that
command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface
is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much
more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as
keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select
messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete
them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in
the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b
to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the
messages, and easily type the label name where that message
can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create
events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so
right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press
ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of
commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc.
Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard
shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other
sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to
where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts
exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode
doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many
still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is
through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with
Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a
BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so
entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse
to open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of
devices that may benefit people more than what they have been
accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show
blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the
needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic
thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try
to step out of the box, try something you may not be
comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and
methods out there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is
because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to
see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than
pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail,
have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail
through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible,
Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but
they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies, simply
because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux,
Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All
that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not
even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM
Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.
This is probably due to the fact that when I was first
taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I
was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to
get the most accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
|
|
|
Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the
shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find
it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an
exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this
list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use
web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new
accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the
old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of
Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does
not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not
necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator,
will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus
mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that
command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface
is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much
more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as
keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select
messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete
them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in
the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b
to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the
messages, and easily type the label name where that message
can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create
events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so
right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press
ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of
commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc.
Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard
shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other
sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to
where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts
exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode
doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many
still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is
through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with
Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a
BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so
entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse
to open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of
devices that may benefit people more than what they have been
accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show
blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the
needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic
thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try
to step out of the box, try something you may not be
comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and
methods out there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is
because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to
see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than
pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail,
have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail
through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible,
Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but
they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies, simply
because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux,
Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All
that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not
even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM
Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.
This is probably due to the fact that when I was first
taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I
was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to
get the most accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA?
On May 5, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the
shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find
it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an
exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this
list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use
web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new
accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the
old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of
Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does
not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not
necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator,
will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus
mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that
command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface
is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much
more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as
keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select
messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete
them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in
the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b
to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the
messages, and easily type the label name where that message
can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create
events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so
right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press
ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of
commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc.
Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard
shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other
sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to
where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts
exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode
doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many
still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is
through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with
Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a
BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so
entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse
to open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of
devices that may benefit people more than what they have been
accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show
blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the
needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic
thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try
to step out of the box, try something you may not be
comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and
methods out there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is
because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to
see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than
pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail,
have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail
through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible,
Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but
they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies, simply
because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux,
Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All
that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not
even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM
Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.
This is probably due to the fact that when I was first
taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I
was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to
get the most accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the
shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find
it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an
exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this
list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use
web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new
accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the
old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of
Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does
not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not
necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator,
will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus
mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that
command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface
is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much
more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as
keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select
messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete
them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in
the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b
to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the
messages, and easily type the label name where that message
can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create
events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so
right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press
ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of
commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc.
Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard
shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other
sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to
where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts
exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode
doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many
still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is
through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with
Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a
BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so
entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse
to open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of
devices that may benefit people more than what they have been
accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show
blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the
needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic
thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try
to step out of the box, try something you may not be
comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and
methods out there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is
because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to
see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than
pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail,
have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail
through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible,
Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but
they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies, simply
because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux,
Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All
that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not
even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM
Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.
This is probably due to the fact that when I was first
taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I
was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to
get the most accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
molly the blind tech lover
i am really interested in this topic.
i just started using gmail on the web as of last week. and while it takes some getting used to i find it easier to use than outlook. i still use the gmail on my pixel 5 too.
Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the
shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find
it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an
exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this
list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use
web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new
accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the
old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of
Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does
not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not
necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator,
will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus
mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that
command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface
is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much
more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as
keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select
messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete
them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in
the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b
to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the
messages, and easily type the label name where that message
can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create
events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so
right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press
ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of
commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc.
Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard
shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other
sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to
where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts
exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode
doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many
still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is
through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with
Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a
BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so
entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse
to open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of
devices that may benefit people more than what they have been
accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show
blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the
needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic
thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try
to step out of the box, try something you may not be
comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and
methods out there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is
because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to
see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than
pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail,
have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail
through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible,
Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but
they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies, simply
because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux,
Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All
that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not
even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM
Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.
This is probably due to the fact that when I was first
taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I
was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to
get the most accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
I totally agree with you! I like using the short cut keys for the internet like. I can go faster with basic HTML as well! I really don’t like the shortcuts built in to the Google suite!
On Wed, May 5, 2021, 4:28 PM Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML
view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I
was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed
to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know
this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
|
|
|
As you use it often with the standard interface, I tried a few months back. Its a real struggle but I can navigate up and down with just one hand to go through all those messages in the mailing list One arrow up or down, the next message If you use basic view, you are going to hit more than once. You can even move left or right arrow when you can in the conversation view, to see the subject and who send it and also the date the message was sent. If you are not interested to read that particular conversation or thread, mark it with an x. You can snooze, archive it or even trash it.
i am really interested in this topic.
i just started using gmail on the web as of last week. and while it takes some getting used to i find it easier to use than outlook. i still use the gmail on my pixel 5 too.
Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the
shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find
it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an
exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this
list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use
web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new
accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the
old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of
Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does
not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not
necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator,
will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus
mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that
command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface
is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much
more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as
keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select
messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete
them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in
the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b
to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the
messages, and easily type the label name where that message
can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create
events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so
right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press
ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of
commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc.
Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard
shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other
sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to
where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts
exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode
doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many
still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is
through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with
Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a
BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so
entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse
to open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of
devices that may benefit people more than what they have been
accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show
blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the
needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic
thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try
to step out of the box, try something you may not be
comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and
methods out there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is
because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to
see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than
pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail,
have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail
through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible,
Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but
they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies, simply
because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux,
Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All
that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not
even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM
Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.
This is probably due to the fact that when I was first
taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I
was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to
get the most accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
molly the blind tech lover
i've been using the basic html view. i am going to try the standard view and see which i prefer.
As you use it often with the standard interface, I tried a few months back. Its a real struggle but I can navigate up and down with just one hand to go through all those messages in the mailing list One arrow up or down, the next message If you use basic view, you are going to hit more than once. You can even move left or right arrow when you can in the conversation view, to see the subject and who send it and also the date the message was sent. If you are not interested to read that particular conversation or thread, mark it with an x. You can snooze, archive it or even trash it.
i am really interested in this topic.
i just started using gmail on the web as of last week. and while it takes some getting used to i find it easier to use than outlook. i still use the gmail on my pixel 5 too.
Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page.
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the
shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find
it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself,
but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an
exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this
list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use
web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new
accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the
old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of
Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does
not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not
necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator,
will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus
mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that
command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface
is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much
more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as
keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select
messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete
them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in
the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b
to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the
messages, and easily type the label name where that message
can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create
events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so
right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press
ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of
commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc.
Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard
shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other
sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to
where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts
exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode
doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many
still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is
through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with
Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a
BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so
entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse
to open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of
devices that may benefit people more than what they have been
accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show
blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the
needs and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic
thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try
to step out of the box, try something you may not be
comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and
methods out there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is
because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to
see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than
pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail,
have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail
through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible,
Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but
they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies, simply
because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux,
Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All
that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not
even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM
Louise Pfau < lpfau@...> wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”.
This is probably due to the fact that when I was first
taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I
was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to
get the most accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
Hi
I am sussing out gmail on the web you mention the 2 views and one
standard view is better to use where are those 2 views found? if
you wanted to sus them both out. Does it start off in standard
view first? I did find the short cuts and turned them on been a
radio button. \i also noted to change between browse and focus
mode to see some sections in gmail. Plus noting shortcut keys etc
that I might look at putting into a basic tutorial for gmail.
Gene nz
On 6/05/2021 8:31 am, accessible tech malayalam wrote:
Hello dear visually impaired friends,
Greetings from vi tech world!
Technology is developing in various different fields.
But, the future of technology is going to depend on websites and
web-based systems.
We, vi tech world is starting a training on fundamentals of web
development and WordPress for visually impaired learners.
Web development is a most demanded topic in the tech market since
2011.
This training is fully beginner level, and 100% accessible for
visually impaired candidates.
Anyone who has intermediate computer usage experience can join
this course.
Note: no programming knowledge required.
Course details.
Name: fundamentals of web development and WordPress.
Start date for registration: May 6, 2021.
End date for registration: May 11, 2021.
Cost for the training: 3 USD or 221 INR.
Course duration: 20 days.
Concepts covered
1. Fundamentals of html.
2. Fundamentals of CSS
3. Structural designing of websites for beginners.
4. Basics of domain, hosting.
5. Localhost for development.
6. Hosting/ server management.
7. SSL and Cloudflare.
8. Introduction to PHP scripts and basic installation of
WordPress.
9. Fundamental setup of WordPress.
10. Designing website interface.
11. WordPress themes and plugins.
12. Registering as a freelancer for online jobs on web
development.
13. Conclusion.
Prerequisites
Any visually impaired person that meets following criteria can
join
this training.
· Should be a visually impaired person
· Should understand English
· Should know at least basic computer skills and screen
reader usage.
· Should have their own laptop/desktop with windows 10).
· Should have an active internet connection
· Should be able to give 1 hour time per day for the
course.
For more info and registration, contact us:
Email: haroonkareemofficial@...
Phone; +91 7593988738
WhatsApp: +918943031760
Telegram: https://t.me/tech_explorers
On 6/05/2021 10:16 am, Nimer Jaber
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the
general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for
turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was
easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to
utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn
on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but
couldn't find it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over
himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can
make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA
topics on this list, although I will do my best to
make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people
how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating
these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind
people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps.
This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead
of Outlook as it does not require an office
subscription. It does not require configuring and
setting up of email clients. It can be used on any
machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily
screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with
Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with
Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how
to switch between browse and focus mode, or your
particular screen reader's name for that command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard
interface is better than even the basic HTML mode?
Because it is much more efficient to traverse through
the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are
turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up
and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e
or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them.
Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next
message in the thread, press p to read the prior
message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply
all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it
later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type
the label name where that message can be found, such
as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort
them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and
tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do
so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose,
press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to
BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to
discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create
bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote
indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab
to look through spelling and grammar suggestions,
etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these
keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into
Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create
your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you
learn can be applied to other sites, too. For
instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard
shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to
navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and
spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback,
and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for
these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but
many still believe that the best way for people to
access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to
check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since
sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can
be some of the most difficult people to work with
because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they
know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and
what they themselves are using, that they refuse to
open their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new
types of devices that may benefit people more than
what they have been accustomed to. It's the same
attitude that won't even show blind people an Android
device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and
should work best for everyone, never mind the needs
and desires of the person they are working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this
off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people
to at least try to step out of the box, try something
you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there
may be tools and methods out there which will enhance
your productivity and make your life easier that don't
require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By
the way, I don't know if it is because checking email
is so popular or what, but I tend to see more
email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists
with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird
than pretty much anything else, and very few are using
webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer
are using webmail through the standard interfaces.
Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is
accessible, Office 365 online web version is
accessible, they may require a bit of a learning
curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those
tools tend to see the most work put into them these
days in terms of accessibility and usability across
many companies, simply because those tools can be used
on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without
requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required
is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a
very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at
1:28 PM Louise Pfau < lpfau@...>
wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail
interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard
view”. This is probably due to the fact that
when I was first taught how to set up and work
with my gmail account, I was instructed to use
“Basic HTML view” in order to get the most
accessible interface. I know this is not
strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is
intended for the recipient
to whom it was
addressed. If you believe
that you are not the
intended recipient,
please notify me via reply
email and destroy all
copies of this
correspondence. Action
taken as a result of this
email or its contents
by anyone other than the
intended recipient(s) may
result in civil or
criminal charges. I have
checked this email and all
corresponding
attachments for security
threats.
Registered Linux User
529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile
screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber
on Twitter for the latest
technology news.
To contact me, you can
reply to this email or you
may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do
my best to respond to you
promptly.
Thank you,
and have a great day!
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for
the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you
are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a
result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended
recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile screen
reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest technology
news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do my
best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a
great day!
|
|
|
Hi, Gene NZ,
Yes, I think it does start out in standard view. I found a button
at the top of the page for the basic HTML setting.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 7:40 PM, hurrikennyandopo
... wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi
I am sussing out gmail on the web you mention the 2 views and
one standard view is better to use where are those 2 views
found? if you wanted to sus them both out. Does it start off in
standard view first? I did find the short cuts and turned them
on been a radio button. \i also noted to change between browse
and focus mode to see some sections in gmail. Plus noting
shortcut keys etc that I might look at putting into a basic
tutorial for gmail.
Gene nz
On 6/05/2021 8:31 am, accessible tech malayalam wrote:
Hello dear visually impaired friends,
Greetings from vi tech world!
Technology is developing in various different fields.
But, the future of technology is going to depend on websites and
web-based systems.
We, vi tech world is starting a training on fundamentals of web
development and WordPress for visually impaired learners.
Web development is a most demanded topic in the tech market
since 2011.
This training is fully beginner level, and 100% accessible for
visually impaired candidates.
Anyone who has intermediate computer usage experience can join
this course.
Note: no programming knowledge required.
Course details.
Name: fundamentals of web development and WordPress.
Start date for registration: May 6, 2021.
End date for registration: May 11, 2021.
Cost for the training: 3 USD or 221 INR.
Course duration: 20 days.
Concepts covered
1. Fundamentals of html.
2. Fundamentals of CSS
3. Structural designing of websites for beginners.
4. Basics of domain, hosting.
5. Localhost for development.
6. Hosting/ server management.
7. SSL and Cloudflare.
8. Introduction to PHP scripts and basic installation of
WordPress.
9. Fundamental setup of WordPress.
10. Designing website interface.
11. WordPress themes and plugins.
12. Registering as a freelancer for online jobs on web
development.
13. Conclusion.
Prerequisites
Any visually impaired person that meets following criteria can
join
this training.
· Should be a visually impaired person
· Should understand English
· Should know at least basic computer skills and screen
reader usage.
· Should have their own laptop/desktop with windows 10).
· Should have an active internet connection
· Should be able to give 1 hour time per day for the
course.
For more info and registration, contact us:
Email: haroonkareemofficial@...
Phone; +91 7593988738
WhatsApp: +918943031760
Telegram: https://t.me/tech_explorers
On 6/05/2021 10:16 am, Nimer Jaber
wrote:
Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the
general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons
for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this
was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good
to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you
turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for
it but couldn't find it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over
himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we
can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing
non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my
best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people
how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating
these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind
people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps.
This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead
of Outlook as it does not require an office
subscription. It does not require configuring and
setting up of email clients. It can be used on any
machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily
screen reader specific, so for the most part, what
works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with
Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with
Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how
to switch between browse and focus mode, or your
particular screen reader's name for that command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard
interface is better than even the basic HTML mode?
Because it is much more efficient to traverse
through the email list, as long as keyboard
shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to
select messages. Press e or y to archive messages.
Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a
thread. Press n to read the next message in the
thread, press p to read the prior message in the
thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to
forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later.
Press / to search the messages, and easily type the
label name where that message can be found, such as
in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort
them into labels and bundles. Easily create events
and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create
meetings with people you wish to interact with, and
do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to
compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press
ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send,
ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to
format text, create bulleted and numbered lists,
adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled
words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and
grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find
a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ?
when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the
shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail
settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied
to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and
on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish
many tasks and to navigate to where you want to
go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist
to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML
mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but
many still believe that the best way for people to
access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to
check email is with Outlook, and the best thing
since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology
trainers can be some of the most difficult people to
work with because many, not all, are so entrenched
in what they know how to teach, how they learned to
teach it, and what they themselves are using, that
they refuse to open their minds to the possibility
that there is a different way of teaching, a new
standard out, new types of devices that may benefit
people more than what they have been accustomed to.
It's the same attitude that won't even show blind
people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS
is superior and should work best for everyone, never
mind the needs and desires of the person they are
working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this
off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get
people to at least try to step out of the box, try
something you may not be comfortable with, and
accept that there may be tools and methods out there
which will enhance your productivity and make your
life easier that don't require struggling with
Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if
it is because checking email is so popular or what,
but I tend to see more email-related qupestions
across the varying tech lists with people struggling
with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much
anything else, and very few are using webmail, have
given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using
webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs
is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office
365 online web version is accessible, they may
require a bit of a learning curve, but they are
accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies,
simply because those tools can be used on
Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without
requiring separate desktop apps. All that is
required is a browser and an Internet connection
(not even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5, 2021
at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau < lpfau@...>
wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the
gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs.
“Standard view”. This is probably due to
the fact that when I was first taught how to
set up and work with my gmail account, I was
instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order
to get the most accessible interface. I know
this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is
intended for the
recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you
believe that you are not
the intended recipient,
please notify me via
reply email and destroy
all copies of this
correspondence. Action
taken as a result of
this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the
intended recipient(s)
may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have
checked this email and
all corresponding
attachments for security
threats.
Registered Linux User
529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a
free, open-source, and
versatile screen reader
for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow
@nimerjaber on Twitter
for the latest
technology news.
To contact me, you can
reply to this email or
you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do
my best to respond to
you promptly.
Thank you,
and have a great day!
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended
for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that
you are not the intended
recipient,
please notify me via reply email
and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as
a result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the
intended recipient(s) may result
in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked
this email and all corresponding
attachments for security
threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile
screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest
technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to
this email or you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I will do
my best to respond to you
promptly.
Thank you, and have
a great day!
|
|
|
Hi Rosemarie
I finally found it to see which view I was in and it seems it
depends on the browser and which view you might get. but you can
switch between them.. I will have to check again basically I went
to settings, pressed the space bar thenchanged to focus mode then
tab quite a few times to locate it. funny that up the top of the
page it seemed like it was down the page quite a bit but maybe
not.
the way I have it setup is through thunder bird and works well
for me but is no harm learning the gmail interface as well I guess
we never stop learning and if it helps else where is a good thing.
Gene nz
On 6/05/2021 4:27 pm, Rosemarie
Chavarria wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi, Gene NZ,
Yes, I think it does start out in standard view. I found a
button at the top of the page for the basic HTML setting.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 7:40 PM, hurrikennyandopo
... wrote:
Hi
I am sussing out gmail on the web you mention the 2 views and
one standard view is better to use where are those 2 views
found? if you wanted to sus them both out. Does it start off
in standard view first? I did find the short cuts and turned
them on been a radio button. \i also noted to change between
browse and focus mode to see some sections in gmail. Plus
noting shortcut keys etc that I might look at putting into a
basic tutorial for gmail.
Gene nz
On 6/05/2021 8:31 am, accessible tech malayalam wrote:
Hello dear visually impaired friends,
Greetings from vi tech world!
Technology is developing in various different fields.
But, the future of technology is going to depend on websites
and
web-based systems.
We, vi tech world is starting a training on fundamentals of
web
development and WordPress for visually impaired learners.
Web development is a most demanded topic in the tech market
since 2011.
This training is fully beginner level, and 100% accessible for
visually impaired candidates.
Anyone who has intermediate computer usage experience can join
this course.
Note: no programming knowledge required.
Course details.
Name: fundamentals of web development and WordPress.
Start date for registration: May 6, 2021.
End date for registration: May 11, 2021.
Cost for the training: 3 USD or 221 INR.
Course duration: 20 days.
Concepts covered
1. Fundamentals of html.
2. Fundamentals of CSS
3. Structural designing of websites for beginners.
4. Basics of domain, hosting.
5. Localhost for development.
6. Hosting/ server management.
7. SSL and Cloudflare.
8. Introduction to PHP scripts and basic installation of
WordPress.
9. Fundamental setup of WordPress.
10. Designing website interface.
11. WordPress themes and plugins.
12. Registering as a freelancer for online jobs on web
development.
13. Conclusion.
Prerequisites
Any visually impaired person that meets following criteria can
join
this training.
· Should be a visually impaired person
· Should understand English
· Should know at least basic computer skills and
screen reader usage.
· Should have their own laptop/desktop with windows
10).
· Should have an active internet connection
· Should be able to give 1 hour time per day for the
course.
For more info and registration, contact us:
Email: haroonkareemofficial@...
Phone; +91 7593988738
WhatsApp: +918943031760
Telegram: https://t.me/tech_explorers
On 6/05/2021 10:16 am, Nimer Jaber
wrote:
Hello,
Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the
general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons
for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this
was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be
good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls.
Hi, Nimer,
This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you
turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking
for it but couldn't find it.
Rosemarie
On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over
himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we
can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing
non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do
my best to make it relate to NVDA.
Trainers are behind the curve on teaching
people how to use web apps. Web app developers are
creating these wonderful new accessible web apps,
and blind people are still stuck with the old,
non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame.
First, I recommend using Gmail on the web
instead of Outlook as it does not require an
office subscription. It does not require
configuring and setting up of email clients. It
can be used on any machine with a web browser. It
is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for
the most part, what works with JAWS will work with
NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with
Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only
thing you must know is how to switch between
browse and focus mode, or your particular screen
reader's name for that command.
Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard
interface is better than even the basic HTML mode?
Because it is much more efficient to traverse
through the email list, as long as keyboard
shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down
arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to
select messages. Press e or y to archive messages.
Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a
thread. Press n to read the next message in the
thread, press p to read the prior message in the
thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to
forward, b to snooze a message and act on it
later. Press / to search the messages, and easily
type the label name where that message can be
found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move
messages and sort them into labels and bundles.
Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily
chat with, and create meetings with people you
wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail
if you wish. Press c to compose, press
ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to
BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to
discard. Press lots of commands to format text,
create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust
blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words,
etc. Press tab to look through spelling and
grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily
find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by
pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't
like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the
Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be
applied to other sites, too. For instance, on
Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist
to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where
you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify,
shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so
on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for
these shortcuts.
I wish trainers would touch more on web apps,
but many still believe that the best way for
people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the
best way to check email is with Outlook, and the
best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote.
Technology trainers can be some of the most
difficult people to work with because many, not
all, are so entrenched in what they know how to
teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they
themselves are using, that they refuse to open
their minds to the possibility that there is a
different way of teaching, a new standard out, new
types of devices that may benefit people more than
what they have been accustomed to. It's the same
attitude that won't even show blind people an
Android device, instead choosing that iOS is
superior and should work best for everyone, never
mind the needs and desires of the person they are
working with.
So, if I can accomplish anything by sending
this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to
get people to at least try to step out of the box,
try something you may not be comfortable with, and
accept that there may be tools and methods out
there which will enhance your productivity and
make your life easier that don't require
struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the
way, I don't know if it is because checking email
is so popular or what, but I tend to see more
email-related qupestions across the varying tech
lists with people struggling with Outlook and
Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and
very few are using webmail, have given it a fair
shot, and still fewer are using webmail through
the standard interfaces. Google Docs is
accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office
365 online web version is accessible, they may
require a bit of a learning curve, but they are
accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see
the most work put into them these days in terms of
accessibility and usability across many companies,
simply because those tools can be used on
Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without
requiring separate desktop apps. All that is
required is a browser and an Internet connection
(not even a very fast one.)
On Wed, May 5,
2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau < lpfau@...>
wrote:
Hi. I find it easier to navigate the
gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs.
“Standard view”. This is probably due to
the fact that when I was first taught how
to set up and work with my gmail account,
I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view”
in order to get the most accessible
interface. I know this is not strictly
related to NVDA though.
Louise
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is
intended for the
recipient to whom it
was
addressed. If you
believe that you are
not the intended
recipient,
please notify me via
reply email and
destroy all copies of
this
correspondence. Action
taken as a result of
this email or its
contents
by anyone other than
the intended
recipient(s) may
result in civil or
criminal charges. I
have checked this
email and all
corresponding
attachments for
security threats.
Registered Linux User
529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a
free, open-source, and
versatile screen
reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow
@nimerjaber on Twitter
for the latest
technology news.
To contact me, you can
reply to this email or
you may call me at
(970) (393-4481) and I
will do my best to
respond to you
promptly.
Thank
you, and have a great
day!
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended
for the recipient to whom it
was
addressed. If you believe that
you are not the intended
recipient,
please notify me via reply
email and destroy all copies
of this
correspondence. Action taken
as a result of this email or
its contents
by anyone other than the
intended recipient(s) may
result in civil or
criminal charges. I have
checked this email and all
corresponding
attachments for security
threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free,
open-source, and versatile
screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on
Twitter for the latest
technology news.
To contact me, you can reply
to this email or you may call
me at (970) (393-4481) and I
will do my best to respond to
you promptly.
Thank you, and
have a great day!
|
|
|
Thanks, Nimer. This is perfect. In the standard view, is anyone else seeing that NVDA seems to pause after every 10 messages? It’s almost like it is waiting for 10 more messages to load. Is this something that is changeable? Jonathan
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view" Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page. On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello, Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls. Hi, Nimer, This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it. Rosemarie On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote: Hello, If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA. Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame. First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command. Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts. I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with. So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.) On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote: Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
Hello,
No, I am not noticing this. Which browser are you using? And, which version of NVDA? There have been improvements made to the responsiveness of Gmail, particularly in the new beta, though they can be toggled on experimentally in the developer settings of NVDA, and I don't remember seeing this issue before anyway.
You can change the number of conversations on a page. I do have mine set to 100.
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 6:18 AM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: Thanks, Nimer. This is perfect. In the standard view, is anyone else seeing that NVDA seems to pause after every 10 messages? It’s almost like it is waiting for 10 more messages to load. Is this something that is changeable? Jonathan From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view" Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page. On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello, Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls. Hi, Nimer, This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it. Rosemarie On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote: Hello, If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA. Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame. First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command. Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts. I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with. So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.) On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote: Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
Thanks, Nimer, this was the issue. NVDA was briefly pausing to load additional conversations. Setting it to 100 prevents this for anyone else.
Hello,
No, I am not noticing this. Which browser are you using? And, which version of NVDA? There have been improvements made to the responsiveness of Gmail, particularly in the new beta, though they can be toggled on experimentally in the developer settings of NVDA, and I don't remember seeing this issue before anyway.
You can change the number of conversations on a page. I do have mine set to 100.
On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 6:18 AM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: Thanks, Nimer. This is perfect. In the standard view, is anyone else seeing that NVDA seems to pause after every 10 messages? It’s almost like it is waiting for 10 more messages to load. Is this something that is changeable? Jonathan From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view" Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page. On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello, Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls. Hi, Nimer, This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it. Rosemarie On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote: Hello, If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA. Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame. First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command. Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts. I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with. So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.) On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote: Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
--
Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
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Hi. I should’ve indicated that I’d changed the subject line.
I’ve set my gmail to show 100 messages per page, so I wasn’t getting the
difficulty displaying messages. I believe that I was originally instructed
to use “Basic HTML view” because it was more accessible. I still find it
easier to use because that’s what I’m used to. When I tried to use
“Standard view”, I found it difficult to navigate the interface, although that
could be because I didn’t know how to enable the keyboard shortcuts. If I
remember correctly, there was a control on the page to use gmail with a screen
reader, but I’m not sure about that.
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Sarah k Alawami
No issues. I've loaded over 200 messages in my junk folder and have jumped with k to each successive one.
--
Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.
to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter
Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.
For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.
Finally, you can support my work on happs, the network of now.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 6 May 2021, at 6:40, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
No, I am not noticing this. Which browser are you using? And, which version of NVDA? There have been improvements made to the responsiveness of Gmail, particularly in the new beta, though they can be toggled on experimentally in the developer settings of NVDA, and I don't remember seeing this issue before anyway.
You can change the number of conversations on a page. I do have mine set to 100. On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 6:18 AM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: Thanks, Nimer. This is perfect. In the standard view, is anyone else seeing that NVDA seems to pause after every 10 messages? It’s almost like it is waiting for 10 more messages to load. Is this something that is changeable? Jonathan From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view" Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page. On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello, Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls. Hi, Nimer, This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it. Rosemarie On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote: Hello, If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA. Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame. First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command. Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts. I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with. So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.) On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote: Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
|
|
It used to be basic html view is the best for screen reader but google has improve tremendously I dare to say, at least 5 years or so. the standard view is slow and clunky and sometimes it just didn't load properly. but thats long time ago when I first started to use more than 10 years ago.
On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 5:56 AM Sarah k Alawami < marrie12@...> wrote:
No issues. I've loaded over 200 messages in my junk folder and have jumped with k to each successive one.
--
Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.
to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter
Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.
For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.
Finally, you can support my work on happs, the network of now.
On 6 May 2021, at 6:40, Nimer Jaber wrote:
Hello,
No, I am not noticing this. Which browser are you using? And, which version of NVDA? There have been improvements made to the responsiveness of Gmail, particularly in the new beta, though they can be toggled on experimentally in the developer settings of NVDA, and I don't remember seeing this issue before anyway.
You can change the number of conversations on a page. I do have mine set to 100. On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 6:18 AM Jonathan Milam < milamj@...> wrote: Thanks, Nimer. This is perfect. In the standard view, is anyone else seeing that NVDA seems to pause after every 10 messages? It’s almost like it is waiting for 10 more messages to load. Is this something that is changeable? Jonathan From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 7:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using gmail with "Basic HTML view" vs. "standard view" Once you open the message, press n. Then, if you want to read the message in more detail, press insert+space to go into browse mode, then navigate as you would a web page. On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Jonathan Milam <milamj@...> wrote: What is the easiest way to navigate quickly to the body of a message in the GMAIL interface with NVDA? Hello, Navigate to settings, see all settings, and under the general tax, close to the bottom, there are radio buttons for turning on and off keyboard shortcuts. I do wish this was easier, nonetheless that is the process. It may be good to utilize screen reader find to find these controls. Hi, Nimer, This sounds like a great thing to learn. How do you turn on the shortcut keys in gmail? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it. Rosemarie On 5/5/2021 1:50 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote: Hello, If Brian gets upset, we'll tell him to get over himself, but this topic is very dear to me, so we can make an exception, I am sure, for discussing non-NVDA topics on this list, although I will do my best to make it relate to NVDA. Trainers are behind the curve on teaching people how to use web apps. Web app developers are creating these wonderful new accessible web apps, and blind people are still stuck with the old, non-web apps. This is a shame, a complete shame. First, I recommend using Gmail on the web instead of Outlook as it does not require an office subscription. It does not require configuring and setting up of email clients. It can be used on any machine with a web browser. It is not necessarily screen reader specific, so for the most part, what works with JAWS will work with NVDA, will work with Narrator, will work with Orca, will work with Voiceover. About the only thing you must know is how to switch between browse and focus mode, or your particular screen reader's name for that command. Why do I say that using Gmail with the standard interface is better than even the basic HTML mode? Because it is much more efficient to traverse through the email list, as long as keyboard shortcuts are turned on and learned. Press up/down arrow to move up and down the list. Press x to select messages. Press e or y to archive messages. Press # to delete them. Press enter to open a thread. Press n to read the next message in the thread, press p to read the prior message in the thread. Press r to reply, a to reply all, f to forward, b to snooze a message and act on it later. Press / to search the messages, and easily type the label name where that message can be found, such as in:sent or in:trash. Easily move messages and sort them into labels and bundles. Easily create events and tasks from emails. Easily chat with, and create meetings with people you wish to interact with, and do so right from Gmail if you wish. Press c to compose, press ctrl+shift+c to 'cc' and press ctrl+shift+b to BCC. Press ctrl+enter to send, ctrl+shift+d to discard. Press lots of commands to format text, create bulleted and numbered lists, adjust blockquote indentations, move to misspelled words, etc. Press tab to look through spelling and grammar suggestions, etc., etc. You can easily find a list of these keyboard shortcuts by pressing ? when logged into Gmail. If you don't like the shortcuts, you can create your own in the Gmail settings. And, much of what you learn can be applied to other sites, too. For instance, on Facebook and on Twitter, keyboard shortcuts exist to accomplish many tasks and to navigate to where you want to go, on YouTube Music and spottify, shortcuts exist to control music playback, and so on. Basic HTML mode doesn't have or allow for these shortcuts. I wish trainers would touch more on web apps, but many still believe that the best way for people to access Gmail is through basic HTML, the best way to check email is with Outlook, and the best thing since sliced bread is a BrailleNote. Technology trainers can be some of the most difficult people to work with because many, not all, are so entrenched in what they know how to teach, how they learned to teach it, and what they themselves are using, that they refuse to open their minds to the possibility that there is a different way of teaching, a new standard out, new types of devices that may benefit people more than what they have been accustomed to. It's the same attitude that won't even show blind people an Android device, instead choosing that iOS is superior and should work best for everyone, never mind the needs and desires of the person they are working with. So, if I can accomplish anything by sending this off-topic thread, and this babble, it is to get people to at least try to step out of the box, try something you may not be comfortable with, and accept that there may be tools and methods out there which will enhance your productivity and make your life easier that don't require struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird. By the way, I don't know if it is because checking email is so popular or what, but I tend to see more email-related qupestions across the varying tech lists with people struggling with Outlook and Thunderbird than pretty much anything else, and very few are using webmail, have given it a fair shot, and still fewer are using webmail through the standard interfaces. Google Docs is accessible, Gmail standard is accessible, Office 365 online web version is accessible, they may require a bit of a learning curve, but they are accessible and usable, and those tools tend to see the most work put into them these days in terms of accessibility and usability across many companies, simply because those tools can be used on Chromebooks, Macs, Linux, Windows, etc., without requiring separate desktop apps. All that is required is a browser and an Internet connection (not even a very fast one.) On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 1:28 PM Louise Pfau <lpfau@...> wrote: Hi. I find it easier to navigate the gmail interface with “Basic HTML view” vs. “Standard view”. This is probably due to the fact that when I was first taught how to set up and work with my gmail account, I was instructed to use “Basic HTML view” in order to get the most accessible interface. I know this is not strictly related to NVDA though.
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
-- Best,
Nimer Jaber
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. Registered Linux User 529141. http://counter.li.org/To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.orgYou can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news. To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
Thank you, and have a great day!
|
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