Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information


Gene
 

My question wasn’t clearly stated.  I should have said that I was interested in whether people experience noticeable delays with much newer machines than mine on typical web pages.
 
You might still object to the question but it wouldn’t have caused any confusion if I had stated it clearly.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
I didn’t intentionally ignore the initial question nor was it my understanding that that was desired.  I was simply curious how people find general pages in terms of delays. 
 
Topics are expanded all the time.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:23 PM, Gene wrote:
I’m discussing typical pages such as The new York Times home page which has about 104 links.
-
So, Gene, you've chosen to ignore the exact context under which the topic started.  I have the same results as you do for virtually any "typical" page, and a NYT page is quite typical.  But that's not the context that was initially established nor being asked about.  That's critically important.

A "special circumstance" of a page characterized by a number of elements much, much higher than is typical was clearly specified as the area of problem and concern.  What happens in typical pages is not relevant to that question.
 
That's why I was thrilled when Giles Turnbull gave a direct link to a page that is akin to the one originally asked about (but appears to require login privileges to actually get to).  Try it on:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md
That's a representative example of the sort of page being asked about.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:37 PM, Gene wrote:
Topics are expanded all the time.
-
Indeed they are, but this wasn't an instance where it was at all helpful, nor was the information offered surprising to anyone in "the typical circumstance."

There are times, and this was one of them, where the context is critical.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

I didn’t intentionally ignore the initial question nor was it my understanding that that was desired.  I was simply curious how people find general pages in terms of delays. 
 
Topics are expanded all the time.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:23 PM, Gene wrote:
I’m discussing typical pages such as The new York Times home page which has about 104 links.
-
So, Gene, you've chosen to ignore the exact context under which the topic started.  I have the same results as you do for virtually any "typical" page, and a NYT page is quite typical.  But that's not the context that was initially established nor being asked about.  That's critically important.

A "special circumstance" of a page characterized by a number of elements much, much higher than is typical was clearly specified as the area of problem and concern.  What happens in typical pages is not relevant to that question.
 
That's why I was thrilled when Giles Turnbull gave a direct link to a page that is akin to the one originally asked about (but appears to require login privileges to actually get to).  Try it on:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md
That's a representative example of the sort of page being asked about.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:23 PM, Gene wrote:
I’m discussing typical pages such as The new York Times home page which has about 104 links. 
-
So, Gene, you've chosen to ignore the exact context under which the topic started.  I have the same results as you do for virtually any "typical" page, and a NYT page is quite typical.  But that's not the context that was initially established nor being asked about.  That's critically important.

A "special circumstance" of a page characterized by a number of elements much, much higher than is typical was clearly specified as the area of problem and concern.  What happens in typical pages is not relevant to that question.
 
That's why I was thrilled when Giles Turnbull gave a direct link to a page that is akin to the one originally asked about (but appears to require login privileges to actually get to).  Try it on:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md
That's a representative example of the sort of page being asked about.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

I’m discussing typical pages such as The new York Times home page which has about 104 links.  I should correct my estimate for accuracy.  I checked just now and it took about one second to bring up the links list and something like one and one half seconds to bring up the headings list when I used the radio buttons to move to it.
 
I have no idea what people generally experience with newer machines.
 
Gene

Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:11 PM, Gene wrote:
When I open the links list, it takes about one and one half seconds for the list to open.
-
On the page:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md?

I've got machines that are fairly new, and fairly fast, and for a page like that, with over 4K links, it takes way more than a second or two for the Elements dialog to open.  As I noted on June 21st:  I just tested out the page Giles offered (for which I thank you) on my machine, an HP Envy 15 TS laptop with an i7-4700MQ processor, 16GB RAM, and an SSD, and it took NVDA about 8 seconds to present the Elements List for that page.  That's a definitely noticeable pause between hitting INS+F7 and the resulting dialog being presented.
 
I cannot imagine older hardware being faster, though stranger things have happened.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 05:11 PM, Gene wrote:
When I open the links list, it takes about one and one half seconds for the list to open.
-
On the page:  https://jeff.tdrealms.com/Described_Movies.md?

I've got machines that are fairly new, and fairly fast, and for a page like that, with over 4K links, it takes way more than a second or two for the Elements dialog to open.  As I noted on June 21st:  I just tested out the page Giles offered (for which I thank you) on my machine, an HP Envy 15 TS laptop with an i7-4700MQ processor, 16GB RAM, and an SSD, and it took NVDA about 8 seconds to present the Elements List for that page.  That's a definitely noticeable pause between hitting INS+F7 and the resulting dialog being presented.
 
I cannot imagine older hardware being faster, though stranger things have happened.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

I can’t discuss what happens today when computers are faster than mine.  But my computer was a moderately fast machine for its time eleven years ago.  When I open the links list, it takes about one and one half seconds for the list to open.  If I shift tab and move to another radio button such as headings, it then takes perhaps three seconds for that list to appear. 
 
I am not making any assumptions about what other people experience.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 04:48 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
I haven’t tried to access any other sites with something in the region of thousands of elements (links, headings, etc).
-
That's because no actually "designed" rather than generated web pages would contain thousands of elements.  When I checked out that page, while the layout is perfectly readable, it goes on and on and on and on.  It appears that a database was dumped, wholesale, on to a single web page.  This is just not typical, at all.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 04:48 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
I haven’t tried to access any other sites with something in the region of thousands of elements (links, headings, etc). 
-
That's because no actually "designed" rather than generated web pages would contain thousands of elements.  When I checked out that page, while the layout is perfectly readable, it goes on and on and on and on.  It appears that a database was dumped, wholesale, on to a single web page.  This is just not typical, at all.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Louise Pfau
 

I haven’t tried to access any other sites with something in the region of thousands of elements (links, headings, etc).  It seems like there is a time lag in processing that amount of information while creating the elements list.  I don’t seem to have problems with smaller web pages.
 
Louise


Gene
 

I don’t know why that is.  Are you saying that is the case on this site and not in general?  If so, I can only speculate that code on the site is interfering with the dialog being available in some way.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
The link I sent as an example doesn’t have anything to do with Windows live mail, other than I was using it as the interface to send the message to the list.  I was trying to access the elements list on a web page in Microsoft Edge.
 
Louise


Louise Pfau
 

The link I sent as an example doesn’t have anything to do with Windows live mail, other than I was using it as the interface to send the message to the list.  I was trying to access the elements list on a web page in Microsoft Edge.
 
Louise


Gene
 

I should change what I said. If you are reading mail as plain text, you shouldn’t hear that the list dialog is unavailable.  You shouldn’t hear anything when you use the command NVDA key f7 because you aren’t in browse mode.
 
You might as well try what I said but since you hear an announcement that the list dialog is unavailable, I don’t know why.  It should be available when you are using Browse mode.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
If it is unavailable, you are almost certainly reading mail as plain text.  To test this, open a message, then use the command alt shift n.  This will cause the opened message to display as HTMl.  If you close and reopen the message, you will have to use the command again to get it to display as HTML.  You can change settings in Windows Live Mail to have all mail display as HTML but you may want to use this command where you want this done instead.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
I think that it would be helpful to have NVDA say something like "Loading
elements list", similar to how it indicates that a web page is loading in a
browser.  I've put the url to the page I was trying to work with below my
signiture.  When I tryed to access the Hyperlink dialog in Windows live
mail, it indicated that it was unavailable.  I have done it successfully in
Microsoft Word 2007, although I know both the programs are unsupported.  I'm
working with Windows 10 Version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1052) and Microsoft
EdgeVersion 91.0.864.59 (Official build) (64-bit)

Thanks,

Louise
https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/w

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe  "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke

















Gene
 

If it is unavailable, you are almost certainly reading mail as plain text.  To test this, open a message, then use the command alt shift n.  This will cause the opened message to display as HTMl.  If you close and reopen the message, you will have to use the command again to get it to display as HTML.  You can change settings in Windows Live Mail to have all mail display as HTML but you may want to use this command where you want this done instead.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 
I think that it would be helpful to have NVDA say something like "Loading
elements list", similar to how it indicates that a web page is loading in a
browser.  I've put the url to the page I was trying to work with below my
signiture.  When I tryed to access the Hyperlink dialog in Windows live
mail, it indicated that it was unavailable.  I have done it successfully in
Microsoft Word 2007, although I know both the programs are unsupported.  I'm
working with Windows 10 Version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1052) and Microsoft
EdgeVersion 91.0.864.59 (Official build) (64-bit)

Thanks,

Louise
https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/w

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe  "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke

















Louise Pfau
 

I think that it would be helpful to have NVDA say something like "Loading elements list", similar to how it indicates that a web page is loading in a browser. I've put the url to the page I was trying to work with below my signiture. When I tryed to access the Hyperlink dialog in Windows live mail, it indicated that it was unavailable. I have done it successfully in Microsoft Word 2007, although I know both the programs are unsupported. I'm working with Windows 10 Version 21H1 (OS Build 19043.1052) and Microsoft EdgeVersion 91.0.864.59 (Official build) (64-bit)

Thanks,

Louise
https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/w

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke


Gene
 

I am what?  And what is my usual answer for anything web based?  and if whatever you say I am saying is wrong, why is it wrong?
 
I can’t discuss something where nothing is defined or explained.  While I don’t want to get into a lengthy debate, I’ll present, explain and defend my position once you explain what you object to and why. 
 
At this point, though I think I know what you are objecting to, I don’t want to comment on my guess about what you are objecting to, nor have you explained why. 
 
I think I can explain my position in a message that isn’t too long and if the message is long, I’ll indeicate that at the beginning so people may skip it if they want.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information
 

Actually, yes you are, that seems to be your normal answer for everything web based,  and we’re hear to tell you that this is not the case 99 percent of the time.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

I am not writing to get into a debate with you about this but I will say, in order that what I'm saying be accurately understood that I did not limit myself to discussing the find command.  In my first message, I specifically discussed moving in other ways such as move by heading or by heading level.  I am not obsessed with the find command. 

 

Gene

On 6/21/2021 10:31 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,

 

I'm in total agreement with you here. What if a person is on an unfamiliar page and he or she doesn't know what to look for? If I know what I'm looking for, then I'll use the find command but that doesn't always work. For instance, when I go to the Heart of the Nation site to hear the Catholic Mass online, I use the elements list with insert f-7 and hit S to find Sunday Mass. I don't know why this person is so obsessed with the find command. Like the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I won't say anything more.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

On 6/21/2021 8:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:

which adds support to my opinion that it is at times, perhaps more than realized, better to use find or to move by heading or other ways directly on the web page.

-
Gene, I really have no idea why it obsesses you so how any given individual user attempts to navigate a page.

Some people, and many of whom are likely to have been JAWS users, simply like the elements dialog which is as close as you get to the links dialog under JAWS.

Any page that has 4400-plus links is not going to be easily navigated, period.  Most web designers would never even begin to think of putting that many links on a single page.  This particular page was not designed either for beauty or efficiency, but is just a massive list of links arranged in very large chunks, alphabetically, depending on what the title of the movie happens to be.

You know how much I happen to like screen reader find and the use of the various quick navigation options, but others simply don't.  There is no right or wrong way here, simply the one that one prefers.  And if you're aware that you're going to have to wait for some seconds on pages with way, way, way more links than is typical for NVDA to build the elements list, and make that choice, there's nothing wrong with that choice.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

No, maybe not. Well yes, but maybe "loading elements, please wait" or
something. Thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a
large quantity of information

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the
progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually, yes you are, that seems to be your normal answer for everything web based,  and we’re hear to tell you that this is not the case 99 percent of the time.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

I am not writing to get into a debate with you about this but I will say, in order that what I'm saying be accurately understood that I did not limit myself to discussing the find command.  In my first message, I specifically discussed moving in other ways such as move by heading or by heading level.  I am not obsessed with the find command. 

 

Gene

On 6/21/2021 10:31 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,

 

I'm in total agreement with you here. What if a person is on an unfamiliar page and he or she doesn't know what to look for? If I know what I'm looking for, then I'll use the find command but that doesn't always work. For instance, when I go to the Heart of the Nation site to hear the Catholic Mass online, I use the elements list with insert f-7 and hit S to find Sunday Mass. I don't know why this person is so obsessed with the find command. Like the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I won't say anything more.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

On 6/21/2021 8:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:

which adds support to my opinion that it is at times, perhaps more than realized, better to use find or to move by heading or other ways directly on the web page.

-
Gene, I really have no idea why it obsesses you so how any given individual user attempts to navigate a page.

Some people, and many of whom are likely to have been JAWS users, simply like the elements dialog which is as close as you get to the links dialog under JAWS.

Any page that has 4400-plus links is not going to be easily navigated, period.  Most web designers would never even begin to think of putting that many links on a single page.  This particular page was not designed either for beauty or efficiency, but is just a massive list of links arranged in very large chunks, alphabetically, depending on what the title of the movie happens to be.

You know how much I happen to like screen reader find and the use of the various quick navigation options, but others simply don't.  There is no right or wrong way here, simply the one that one prefers.  And if you're aware that you're going to have to wait for some seconds on pages with way, way, way more links than is typical for NVDA to build the elements list, and make that choice, there's nothing wrong with that choice.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I believe it does and se’ve surmised it does even on more powerful machines for what ever reason, maybe it’s trying to build a DB of the page, I dunno.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

It doesn’t obsess me.  You are running a powerful computer and it took a long time.  I’m raising the question of whether people running far less powerful machines have delays when opening the dialog. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 10:15 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about using the elements list on a page with a large quantity of information

 

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:

which adds support to my opinion that it is at times, perhaps more than realized, better to use find or to move by heading or other ways directly on the web page.

-
Gene, I really have no idea why it obsesses you so how any given individual user attempts to navigate a page.

Some people, and many of whom are likely to have been JAWS users, simply like the elements dialog which is as close as you get to the links dialog under JAWS.

Any page that has 4400-plus links is not going to be easily navigated, period.  Most web designers would never even begin to think of putting that many links on a single page.  This particular page was not designed either for beauty or efficiency, but is just a massive list of links arranged in very large chunks, alphabetically, depending on what the title of the movie happens to be.

You know how much I happen to like screen reader find and the use of the various quick navigation options, but others simply don't.  There is no right or wrong way here, simply the one that one prefers.  And if you're aware that you're going to have to wait for some seconds on pages with way, way, way more links than is typical for NVDA to build the elements list, and make that choice, there's nothing wrong with that choice.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Luke Davis
 

Would it be helpful to have NVDA say "building elements list", or the progress beeps, or similar while this is happening?

Luke


Gene
 

I am not writing to get into a debate with you about this but I will say, in order that what I'm saying be accurately understood that I did not limit myself to discussing the find command.  In my first message, I specifically discussed moving in other ways such as move by heading or by heading level.  I am not obsessed with the find command. 


Gene

On 6/21/2021 10:31 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,


I'm in total agreement with you here. What if a person is on an unfamiliar page and he or she doesn't know what to look for? If I know what I'm looking for, then I'll use the find command but that doesn't always work. For instance, when I go to the Heart of the Nation site to hear the Catholic Mass online, I use the elements list with insert f-7 and hit S to find Sunday Mass. I don't know why this person is so obsessed with the find command. Like the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I won't say anything more.


Rosemarie



On 6/21/2021 8:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 10:58 AM, Gene wrote:
which adds support to my opinion that it is at times, perhaps more than realized, better to use find or to move by heading or other ways directly on the web page.
-
Gene, I really have no idea why it obsesses you so how any given individual user attempts to navigate a page.

Some people, and many of whom are likely to have been JAWS users, simply like the elements dialog which is as close as you get to the links dialog under JAWS.

Any page that has 4400-plus links is not going to be easily navigated, period.  Most web designers would never even begin to think of putting that many links on a single page.  This particular page was not designed either for beauty or efficiency, but is just a massive list of links arranged in very large chunks, alphabetically, depending on what the title of the movie happens to be.

You know how much I happen to like screen reader find and the use of the various quick navigation options, but others simply don't.  There is no right or wrong way here, simply the one that one prefers.  And if you're aware that you're going to have to wait for some seconds on pages with way, way, way more links than is typical for NVDA to build the elements list, and make that choice, there's nothing wrong with that choice.
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel