NVDA 2021.1 Beta 4 now available


tim
 

I had a battery of test once and that was one of them.

I did just that shoved all threw one hole. They said I did it wrong. I told them it was a test of time and I did it faster then anyone. I told them you don't get quality unless you pay for it "welcome to the working world.".


On 6/23/2021 9:45 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Normally, of course, it shouldn't matter how you update, but it's good to have people try both ways to identify issues exactly like this.  In fact it is hard to test updating from a build of NVDA to a newer one without actually publishing that newer one using the check for updates routine - so this would have been a tricky one to pin down prior to the new beta being released.

I must admit, as soon as I think I know how the "average" NVDA user does something, someone comes along and does it a completely different way and then asks me a question about it.

There is a video meme going around of a developer watching a user put different shaped blocks in shaped holes.  They cheer when they pick up the square and put it in the square shaped hole.  Then they pick up a round block.... and put it through the square hole (where it fits), and then a rectangle block, and a triangle block - it turns out ALL the blocks fit through the square hole.... and the developer cries because that wasn't how they envisaged it working at all.  Drifted off the track there a bit, but suffice to say, it's good to test things in as many different ways a possible :)

Meanwhile, keep an eye out for Beta 5, likely later today or tomorrow.

Quentin.

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 7:50 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 05:44 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Because it is not how the normal user uses the release software.
-
Precisely.  And it's not normal released software, either.   Alpha and beta software are, as far as I'm concerned, in classes by themselves.  I'm not trying to imitate what goes on when I'm using production releases and I always expect that either alpha or beta software could very well have inherent issues that don't necessarily get fixed via a "typical built-in update" path.  Neither really have anything to do with "usual use cases" on the whole.  Once you reach release candidate stage, that shifts.

But, after all that, I was just reporting my standard practice.  And now I've expounded on why it's my standard practice.  Others need not share that practice nor approve of it.  Do whatever happens to float your boat.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


tim
 

Guess he don't read the screen when NVDA tells you there is a older version and will be removed for install of new version.

I get that on every update.

By using the help menu to upgrade. Told everyone this time it was broke.

Now doing it his way would of never of found that bug, and he would still be telling us our box and not the program.

On 6/23/2021 5:44 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Brian Vogel wrote:

period.  I download, uninstall the existing beta, and install the next beta version.  Your NVDA settings, add-ons, etc., are retained, so why not start as
close to completely afresh as you can?
Because it is not how the normal user uses the release software.

My thought when testing betas, is to try not to treat them any differently then the release software would be treated in the majority of cases.

So if I want to test what the average user would find, I should behave like the average user would behave.
In this case, that means updating from the help menu.

I can see your fresh install point of view because it replaces the codebase, but to me that is unrealistic to how most users would deploy the software.

It neither simulates updates (because people don't update that way), nor simulates fresh installs (because you keep your userdata). Thus it is an abnormal modality for the software to be used in, and misses tests for the usual use cases.

Luke




Quentin Christensen
 

Normally, of course, it shouldn't matter how you update, but it's good to have people try both ways to identify issues exactly like this.  In fact it is hard to test updating from a build of NVDA to a newer one without actually publishing that newer one using the check for updates routine - so this would have been a tricky one to pin down prior to the new beta being released.

I must admit, as soon as I think I know how the "average" NVDA user does something, someone comes along and does it a completely different way and then asks me a question about it.

There is a video meme going around of a developer watching a user put different shaped blocks in shaped holes.  They cheer when they pick up the square and put it in the square shaped hole.  Then they pick up a round block.... and put it through the square hole (where it fits), and then a rectangle block, and a triangle block - it turns out ALL the blocks fit through the square hole.... and the developer cries because that wasn't how they envisaged it working at all.  Drifted off the track there a bit, but suffice to say, it's good to test things in as many different ways a possible :)

Meanwhile, keep an eye out for Beta 5, likely later today or tomorrow.

Quentin.

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 7:50 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 05:44 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Because it is not how the normal user uses the release software.
-
Precisely.  And it's not normal released software, either.   Alpha and beta software are, as far as I'm concerned, in classes by themselves.  I'm not trying to imitate what goes on when I'm using production releases and I always expect that either alpha or beta software could very well have inherent issues that don't necessarily get fixed via a "typical built-in update" path.  Neither really have anything to do with "usual use cases" on the whole.  Once you reach release candidate stage, that shifts.

But, after all that, I was just reporting my standard practice.  And now I've expounded on why it's my standard practice.  Others need not share that practice nor approve of it.  Do whatever happens to float your boat.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


 

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 05:44 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Because it is not how the normal user uses the release software.
-
Precisely.  And it's not normal released software, either.   Alpha and beta software are, as far as I'm concerned, in classes by themselves.  I'm not trying to imitate what goes on when I'm using production releases and I always expect that either alpha or beta software could very well have inherent issues that don't necessarily get fixed via a "typical built-in update" path.  Neither really have anything to do with "usual use cases" on the whole.  Once you reach release candidate stage, that shifts.

But, after all that, I was just reporting my standard practice.  And now I've expounded on why it's my standard practice.  Others need not share that practice nor approve of it.  Do whatever happens to float your boat.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Luke Davis
 

Brian Vogel wrote:

period.  I download, uninstall the existing beta, and install the next beta version.  Your NVDA settings, add-ons, etc., are retained, so why not start as
close to completely afresh as you can?
Because it is not how the normal user uses the release software.

My thought when testing betas, is to try not to treat them any differently then the release software would be treated in the majority of cases.

So if I want to test what the average user would find, I should behave like the average user would behave.
In this case, that means updating from the help menu.

I can see your fresh install point of view because it replaces the codebase, but to me that is unrealistic to how most users would deploy the software.

It neither simulates updates (because people don't update that way), nor simulates fresh installs (because you keep your userdata). Thus it is an abnormal modality for the software to be used in, and misses tests for the usual use cases.

Luke


 

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 11:51 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
I always download from the announcement link instead of the "check for updates".
-
As do I, and I'm "out of the loop" on this particular beta, which is unusual.

When it comes to betas in particular, I often don't use the update mechanism, period.  I download, uninstall the existing beta, and install the next beta version.  Your NVDA settings, add-ons, etc., are retained, so why not start as close to completely afresh as you can?
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Quentin,


That's a great suggestion. Whenever there's a new beta version or official release, I always download from the announcement link instead of the "check for updates".


Rosemarie



On 6/23/2021 3:40 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

For anyone experiencing an issue updating from within NVDA to Beta 4 - please download the new beta from the release announcement - https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2021-1beta4/ - and update via that.

Apologies for the inconvenience, and thank you for your patience!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 7:58 PM Quentin Christensen via groups.io <quentin=nvaccess.org@groups.io> wrote:
Hi everyone,

NVDA 2021.1beta4 is now available for testing. As with previous betas, please test & report any issues. Changes from Beta 3 include updated translations and improvements to crash handling. Full details & download links in the release announcement: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2021-1beta4/

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

For anyone experiencing an issue updating from within NVDA to Beta 4 - please download the new beta from the release announcement - https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2021-1beta4/ - and update via that.

Apologies for the inconvenience, and thank you for your patience!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 7:58 PM Quentin Christensen via groups.io <quentin=nvaccess.org@groups.io> wrote:
Hi everyone,

NVDA 2021.1beta4 is now available for testing. As with previous betas, please test & report any issues. Changes from Beta 3 include updated translations and improvements to crash handling. Full details & download links in the release announcement: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2021-1beta4/

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

NVDA 2021.1beta4 is now available for testing. As with previous betas, please test & report any issues. Changes from Beta 3 include updated translations and improvements to crash handling. Full details & download links in the release announcement: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2021-1beta4/

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager