No sound with NVDA 2020.1 in a Windows 10 VM


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Dear all,

Although this is sent as a response to Brian, this e-mail intents to
thank allof you who helped me, with apologies for thedelay, I have been
sick lastly.

The diagnostic made by Lukasz (I think) was correct. I did havethe buggy
version of Windows and for some reason the update had been interrupted.
It has now been completed with sighted help and the latest NVDA
installed. I am still with the e-speach voicesynthesis but at least I am
in a position from where I should be able to progress by myself.

Thanks again and all the best to everybody,

Sébastien.


 

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 01:10 AM, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
Is it possible that, when Windows is asked to search for updates, it has
been pre-configured to do so only on the institute's server which would
then only have certain CU that would prevent one from installing a too
recent version of Windows with respect to some security policy they may
have?
-
Yes, that is a possibility.

You really need to talk with "your people" so that you can understand exactly what they are supplying to you and what their constraints are from a policies and procedures perspective.  I realize that you are new to this job, and this is a pain, but the more you can get nailed down about not only what you're dealing with now, but how things are going to work with your Windows VM going forward, the easier your life will be.

It could be that you have a more recent version of Windows 10 for all I know.  It would still be helpful to know what their update policy is if all Windows updates are being managed by them.

My gut is telling me that you are not going to have Windows 10 Home or Pro, but Enterprise or Educational, both of which are intended for large entities that control their own Windows Updates and their timing.

I'd also hope that your employer has technical support that can help out with solving the most pressing issue you're having right now:  no speech output.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Lukasz Golonka
 

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 07:06:11 +0200
Sébastien Hinderer <Sebastien.Hinderer@inria.fr> wrote:

Dear Brian,

Is there no possibility to get one given version of Windows updated to
the current one without having to re-install?
For normal versions of Windows 10 that is precisely what happens. However
if if you're using an LTSC build that is the version with a long term
support the new builds are not delivered via Windows Update - only
security fixes are.


Lukasz Golonka
 

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 07:02:53 +0200
Sébastien Hinderer <Sebastien.Hinderer@inria.fr> wrote:

Regarding the updates I think we did them but I'll ask my sighted
friends to check the sound menu itself.
The trouble here is that if you've installed without the update that
fixes the problem updating later on has no effect. This is because
Windows checks for the best (in its opinion that is) settings for a
given sound device just once. The fix released by MS made it so for the sound
device emulated by Virtual Box 5.1 sound is not chosen automatically but
if it has been chosen before the update would not change that and this
needs to be done from the sound settings.


I have patience so yes I will have the possibility to have sighted
assistance. Probably not before next week but that's okay.
There are certainly ways to do the changes yourself the easiest would be
to connect external USB sound card to your VM if you have one. that is.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Brian Vogel (2021/07/29 15:19 -0700):
On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 06:13 PM, Lukasz Golonka wrote:


Unless he needs to use 1809 LTSC which is supported for around 7 years
still.
-
True, but only if it is required.  Otherwise it always makes sense to
keep your instances, whether actual or virtual, up to date with the
latest supported version that will run on your hardware.
One question here. The VM has been provided to me by the research center
I am working for, here in France. They have hteir own activation
sservers, for instance.

Is it possible that, when Windows is asked to search for updates, it has
been pre-configured to do so only on the institute's server which would
then only have certain CU that would prevent one from installing a too
recent versionn of Windows with respect to some security policy they may
have?

Thanks,

Sébastien.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Dear Brian,

Is there no possibility to get one given version of Windows updated to
the current one without having to re-install?

My belief was that when you are letting Windows download updates that'
was precisely what was happening. Am I wrong here? Sorry, lack of
familiarity with the Windows world. Will need to catchup.

Sébastien.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Dear Lukasz,

Thanks again!

Regarding the updates I think we did them but I'll ask my sighted
friends to check the sound menu itself.

I have patience so yes I will have the possibility to have sighted
assistance. Probably not before next week but that's okay.

Will report progress here.

Many thanks, the thread has been really helpful so far!

Sébasttien.


 

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 06:13 PM, Lukasz Golonka wrote:
Unless he needs to use 1809 LTSC which is supported for around 7 years still.
-
True, but only if it is required.  Otherwise it always makes sense to keep your instances, whether actual or virtual, up to date with the latest supported version that will run on your hardware.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Lukasz Golonka
 

On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 15:06:24 -0700
"Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

If, by some chance, you somehow have Windows 10 Version 1809 running, you need to get a far more recent version and re-create your VM using it.  I'd go no earlier than Version 20H2 and, ideally, just use the current version, 21H1.
Unless he needs to use 1809 LTSC which is supported for around 7 years
still.


 

Sorry, Lukasz. We were literally typing our responses at the same time, and you beat me by 2 minutes in posting yours.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


 

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 04:45 PM, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
What do you mean by CU, exactly?
-
I'm not Lukasz, but this, in context, means Cumulative Update.

If you have no screen reader output then it's quite difficult to get version and build information since you can't see it.  Normally you'd just run the winver command and listen to the information in the resulting dialog box.

If, by some chance, you somehow have Windows 10 Version 1809 running, you need to get a far more recent version and re-create your VM using it.  I'd go no earlier than Version 20H2 and, ideally, just use the current version, 21H1.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Yep.  Discipline.  Accountability.  Joy.  Fun.  Responsibility.

That's what life is about.  And in that order.

        ~ Liza Minnelli

 


Lukasz Golonka
 

On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 22:45:21 +0200
Sébastien Hinderer <Sebastien.Hinderer@inria.fr> wrote:

Lukasz Golonka via groups.io (2021/07/29 21:54 +0200):
Are you by any chance running Windows 10 1809?
I don't know. Is there a way to figure that out without sighted
assistance when no screen reader works? Otherwise I will have to wait
until a colleague of mine can help me on that.
Possible probably yes but not easy. If you have easy access to the
sighted assistant that would be your best bed

First versions of this
build had exactly the issue you're describing under Virtual Box. I've
reported this both to Oracle (https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/17942)
and to Microsoft Accessibility team.
It's nice that you did the reports! Thanks! I feel dumb for not having
found them, actually!
I don't think they would come up in the searches - certainly the one to
Microsoft has been done via twitter and using private messages.

The latter report resulted in this
issue being corrected with an update but unfortunately if you've
installed from the image without the appropriate CU
What do you mean by CU, exactly? I'm not familiar with the terminology,
sorry.
CU -> Cumulative update

integrated you need
to fix it manually. To do so it is necessary to open your sound settings
and ensure your sound card is set to Stereo rather than to 5.1 which the
audio card emulated by Virtual Box fails to handle well.
Just to make sure. When you talk about the sound settings, do you mean
on the Windows side?
Yes, this change needs to be done on the system inside your VM.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Dear Lukasz,

I am so grateful that you paid attention to my message and took the time
to respond to it! Thank you so much!

I will quote your message and do bottom-posting, I hope you don't mind
but let me know if you do and I will use a different approach.

Lukasz Golonka via groups.io (2021/07/29 21:54 +0200):
Are you by any chance running Windows 10 1809?
I don't know. Is there a way to figure that out without sighted
assistance when no screen reader works? Otherwise I will have to wait
until a colleague of mine can help me on that.

First versions of this
build had exactly the issue you're describing under Virtual Box. I've
reported this both to Oracle (https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/17942)
and to Microsoft Accessibility team.
It's nice that you did the reports! Thanks! I feel dumb for not having
found them, actually!

The latter report resulted in this
issue being corrected with an update but unfortunately if you've
installed from the image without the appropriate CU
What do you mean by CU, exactly? I'm not familiar with the terminology,
sorry.

integrated you need
to fix it manually. To do so it is necessary to open your sound settings
and ensure your sound card is set to Stereo rather than to 5.1 which the
audio card emulated by Virtual Box fails to handle well.
Just to make sure. When you talk about the sound settings, do you mean
on the Windows side?

Many thanks, again, for the invaluable information you provided!

Best wishes,

Sébastien.


Lukasz Golonka
 

Hello,

On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 14:17:43 +0200
Sébastien Hinderer <Sebastien.Hinderer@inria.fr> wrote:

Coming to the problem. The VM works. We can hear Windows' system sounds
and it is also possible to play videos on YouTube through FireFix from
within the VM and that will produce sound.

What does not work is that NVDA does not speak and that even the sounds
one is supposed to hear when it starts up or when it stops can't be
heard.

The speech synthetizers (Windows OneCore voices for french) are
installed but it is not possible to listen to a sample.

Almost the same goes for the narrator, the difference bbeing that it's
possible ot hear it beep but not speak.
Are you by any chance running Windows 10 1809? First versions of this
build had exactly the issue you're describing under Virtual Box. I've
reported this both to Oracle (https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/17942)
and to Microsoft Accessibility team. The latter report resulted in this
issue being corrected with an update but unfortunately if you've
installed from the image without the appropriate CU integrated you need
to fix it manually. To do so it is necessary to open your sound settings
and ensure your sound card is set to Stereo rather than to 5.1 which the
audio card emulated by Virtual Box fails to handle well.


--
Regards
Lukasz


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Thanks, Chris!

We did try espeach and didn't encounter more success. Regarding the
output device, as far as I can remember, we had two choices: speakers or
microsoft sound mappper or something like that. I can't say for sure
that we tried all the combinations of synthesizers and outputs but those
we tried didn't work. Also there is this strange things that the tunes
NVDA makes when it starts and stops we couldn't hear either. To me this
seems to indicate that the problem is wider than just a matter of which
speech synthetizer is used, but I also suspect there may be several
problems, and perhaps installing the latest version of NVDA will solve
at least some of them.

Anyway, many thanks to all for your warm support, I deeply appreciate!

Sébastien.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Dear Brian,

No, I was not aware of the french speaking group, thanks!

That may indeed be helpful in some situations and in any case worth
following!

For this discussion, though, it feels like the present group is a better
place to have it, well I hope it doesn't annoy anybody.

Best wishes,

Sébastien.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Thanks Brian and sorry, my copy/paste included a name who should not
have been there. The e-mail address included was also irrelevent, my
apologize for that. The only right thing was the page's URL.

Thanks again, things seem to become a bit less cloudy, I think.

Sébastien.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Thanks. I'll try to provide some logs if, after having installed the
latest version things do not improve.

Sébastien.


Sébastien Hinderer
 

Thanks! I'll definitely give it a try as soon as an opportunity arises.
I don't see why I owuldn't. Sinc e things do not work anyway, there
seems to be not much to loose. Does it matter whether I upgrade or first
uninstall the old version and theninstall the new one?

Thanks,

Sébastien.


Chris
 

If narrator isn’t working either then maybe selecting the espeak synth that comes with NVDA may help and/or changing the output to another  device

 

 

From: Sébastien Hinderer
Sent: 29 July 2021 14:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] No sound with NVDA 2020.1 in a Windows 10 VM

 

Dear all,

 

I am a Linux usser wishing to use w Windows VM running under VirtualBox

and with NVDA running into it as a screen reader.

 

Since I am based in France I downloaded NVDA2020.1 which seemed to be

the latest release, at least on the french website. Later on I

discovered on the nvaccess.org website that 2021.1 seems to be released

so if you think switching to this version could help to solve my problem

I would like no, but then I'd ask why this is not yet on the french

website, is it because of a lack of translations? In which case I'm

happy to help.

 

Coming to the problem. The VM works. We can hear Windows' system sounds

and it is also possible to play videos on YouTube through FireFix from

within the VM and that will produce sound.

 

What does not work is that NVDA does not speak and that even the sounds

one is supposed to hear when it starts up or when it stops can't be

heard.

 

The speech synthetizers (Windows OneCore voices for french) are

installed but it is not possible to listen to a sample.

 

Almost the same goes for the narrator, the difference bbeing that it's

possible ot hear it beep but not speak.

 

The Windows in question has been activated.

 

I am a visually impaired engineer surrounded by sighted and skilled

engineers so we will be happpy to provide any information that could

help you in assisting me.

 

Any hint warmly welcome! Thanks!

 

Sébastien.