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Weird Abbreviation Processing Mid-word?
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On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:45 AM, John Sanfilippo wrote:
j26s- The problem being that even this, as written, would require guessing. I'd say Jay twenty-six ess simply because I'd instantly change a designation such as this to its more typical uppercase equivalent J26S. The British colloquialism, "at 6s and 7s," which can also be written out as, "at sixes and sevens," requires the s to be treated as plural. The phrase, "he was in his 20s," requires the S to be spoken as a plural. It's just more conventional to use all uppercase for letter digit sequences intended to be pronounced character by character. There's still no artificial intelligence out there that I know of that can "auto correct" certain things the way that human wetware can and does. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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John Sanfilippo
I'm running Windows 10, 1h1, build 1943, NVDA 2021.2 driving MS OneVoice David, and I have these number problems in many cases.
One example is that j26s is pronounced jay twenty s i x s instead of j twenty-six s This messes up dates, or makes dates where they do not exist, such as in TB apps version numbers, or any app version numbers, which sound like dates. And it renders this as hours and minutes when that is not wanted: 21h27m1354 Yeah, I'd say this is a general bug which definitely wants attention. John |
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Steve Nutt
Yes, but that’s not expand abbreviations, which is what we want here.
That appears in the Android app, but not the PC app. My bad, so apologies for that.
All the best
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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 11 October 2021 18:42 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Weird Abbreviation Processing Mid-word?
How are you looking at the settings? If you open eloquence on the desktop, you will be in a dialog. If you tab I believe once, you will see a check box that says process punctuation.
Gene -----Original Message----- From: Clement Chou Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Weird Abbreviation Processing Mid-word?
Hi Steve. I don't even have such a box in my code factory eloquence |
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Steve Nutt
You are right, it's in the Android app, but not the PC app. And it does fix it for Android.
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How weird. All the best Steve -- To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW T: +44(0)1438-742286 M: +44(0)7956-334938 F: +44(0)1438-759589 E: steve@... W: https://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clement Chou Sent: 11 October 2021 18:12 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Weird Abbreviation Processing Mid-word? Hi Steve. I don't even have such a box in my code factory eloquence settings, otherwise I'd try it. lol On 10/11/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote: On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 10:59 AM, Mohamed wrote:- |
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Gene
I hadn’t realized it, but the setting I was talking about is the same
setting as you are discussing. It isn’t the one that was originally
discussed and I mistakenly thought it was.
The inapplicable setting I was discussing is in the SAPI 5 version.
It may be in NVDA in that version as well. If you are using the add-on, it
is probably in NVDA but I don’t know if there are separate settings for SAPI or
if they are only in the voice settings dialog..
Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Clement Chou
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weird Abbreviation Processing
Mid-word? The
box steve is talking about was apparently expand abbreviations and there's no such box. I open settings from within the nvda menu itself, and the process punctuation is definitely there. But it's had no impact on the weird abbreviation problem. On 10/11/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: > How are you looking at the settings? If you open eloquence on the desktop, > you will be in a dialog. If you tab I believe once, you will see a check > box that says process punctuation. > > Gene > -----Original Message----- > From: Clement Chou > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 12:11 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] Weird Abbreviation Processing Mid-word? > > Hi Steve. I don't even have such a box in my code factory eloquence > settings, otherwise I'd try it. lol > > On 10/11/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 10:59 AM, Mohamed wrote: >> >>> >>> The double spacing between the number and the word seems to get around >>> the >>> issue. >> >> - >> Thanks for the verbal explanation. The fact that there are two spaces >> after >> the number in the replacement is not visually obvious and I didn't do >> "whitespace analysis." >> >> It is amazing how often just tweaking whitespace or playing with >> adding/removing word capitalization is enough. >> >> -- >> >> Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 >> >> *The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.* >> >> ~ John F. Kennedy >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > |
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Jackie
When I also have this problem is w/heading numbers, as in
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<h3> Marketing </h3> It'll read March 3 ketting because it's translating the heading number into a date format, I guess. Truly annoying. On 10/11/21, Clement Chou <chou.clement@...> wrote:
The box steve is talking about was apparently expand abbreviations and --
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Clement Chou
The box steve is talking about was apparently expand abbreviations and
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there's no such box. I open settings from within the nvda menu itself, and the process punctuation is definitely there. But it's had no impact on the weird abbreviation problem. On 10/11/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
How are you looking at the settings? If you open eloquence on the desktop, |
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Gene
How are you looking at the settings? If you open eloquence on the
desktop, you will be in a dialog. If you tab I believe once, you will see
a check box that says process punctuation.
Gene -----Original Message-----
From: Clement Chou
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Weird Abbreviation Processing
Mid-word? Hi
Steve. I don't even have such a box in my code factory eloquence settings, otherwise I'd try it. lol On 10/11/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote: > On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 10:59 AM, Mohamed wrote: > >> >> The double spacing between the number and the word seems to get around >> the >> issue. > > - > Thanks for the verbal explanation. The fact that there are two spaces after > the number in the replacement is not visually obvious and I didn't do > "whitespace analysis." > > It is amazing how often just tweaking whitespace or playing with > adding/removing word capitalization is enough. > > -- > > Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 > > *The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.* > > ~ John F. Kennedy > > > > > > |
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Clement Chou
Hi Steve. I don't even have such a box in my code factory eloquence
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settings, otherwise I'd try it. lol On 10/11/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 10:59 AM, Mohamed wrote:- |
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On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 10:59 AM, Mohamed wrote:
The double spacing between the number and the word seems to get around the issue.- Thanks for the verbal explanation. The fact that there are two spaces after the number in the replacement is not visually obvious and I didn't do "whitespace analysis." It is amazing how often just tweaking whitespace or playing with adding/removing word capitalization is enough. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Gene
I didn't check the second entry, which eliminates mishandling of legitimate dates, but I checked the first entry and it works with numbers I tested. I tested 1 2 and 3 followed by Mayflower, and I tested 10 and 11 followed by Mayflower.
Gene On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:29 PM, Mohamed wrote: |
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Mohamed
Essentially, the synth has a rule to expand abbreviated dates
like 2 Sept to their more natural form. The problem is that the
synth fails to take into account that there may be extra text
after the abbreviated month, resulting in the weird expansions
described here. The double spacing between the number and the word
seems to get around the issue. On 10/11/2021 10:49 AM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:29 PM, Mohamed wrote: |
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On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:29 PM, Mohamed wrote:
\b(\d+) (Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Sept|Oct|Nov|Dec)([a-z]+)- Mohamed, Would this actually work? [I don't have time to test] I ask because what you're handing the synth, reconstructed, is precisely what it would have been handed anyway, given that \1 will be the number, you've placed a space after it, and \2\3 would be the original full word following. I'm not criticizing the regex formation, but the substitute and the original appear, to me, to be the same thing. If it's the synth that's screwing this up, it's being given the same thing to screw up. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 10:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
uncheck Expand Abbreviations? Wouldn't that fix it?- While it very well may, that also introduces issues where a working around an edge case would most likely knock out functionality you want most of the time. This really is a no-win situation in the big picture. It either needs to be fixed, actually fixed, or any workaround is going to have foreseeable unwanted results. If it becomes known that it cannot or will not be fixed, then you're in a "pick your poison" situation. Of course, depending on what you know about the document(s) you're working with, the pick may change, but some poison is still involved (even if it's just inconvenience). -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043 The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. ~ John F. Kennedy
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Mohamed
No, that setting would not fix the issue. Some abbreviations can't be turned off even with that setting, and this is one of them.
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On 10/11/2021 10:36 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
Hi, |
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Steve Nutt
Hi,
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Or you could go into the Eloquence settings in CodeFactory Eloquence and uncheck Expand Abbreviations? Wouldn't that fix it? All the best Steve -- To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe Computer Room Services 77 Exeter Close Stevenage Hertfordshire SG1 4PW T: +44(0)1438-742286 M: +44(0)7956-334938 F: +44(0)1438-759589 E: steve@... W: https://www.comproom.co.uk -----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clement Chou Sent: 11 October 2021 01:54 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Weird Abbreviation Processing Mid-word? Pretty sure I haven't been the first one to experience this, so others probably have. I will contact them as well, just in case, but I'm not holding my breath. It's ironic how alternative versions of Eloquence don't have this issue. Thanks for the detective work Jean. I'm not surprised that it's a problem with this version of eloquence.. codefactory makes a lot of assumptions about how people want things read. lol On 10/10/21, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote: Has anyone contacted them about this? If so what was their response if any? |
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Pele West
Hi
I apologise again. I sent my message about using Regular Expressions before I saw yours. Pele West |
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Mohamed
I was the one who wrote that expression. You should use the one I posted earlier, though, the version I originally sent you is missing an abbreviation for September and there is a weird edge case involving the word "may" that I didn't know about at the time.
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On 10/11/2021 4:58 AM, Pele West wrote:
Hi Everyone |
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Pele West
Hi Everyone
I have had this problem of Number and the Month for ages. Someone on this list, and I apologise that I can't remember who it was, suggested I used regular expressions in the default dictionary to solve it. I am sorry if I have misunderstood the problem, but thanks, anyway, to the person who suggested it to me. Here are the entries: 1. For first 3 letters of month without a space (\d+) (Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sept|Oct|Nov|Dec)([a-z]+) \1 \2\3 0 1 2. For first 3 letters of the month followed by space. (\d+) (Jan |Feb |Mar |Apr |May |Jun |Jul |Aug |Sept |Oct |Nov |Dec )([a-z]+) \1 \2\3 0 1 Pele West |
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Mohamed
Here are some dictionary entries to work around that. For these entries, when adding them to the NVDA dictionary, set the type to regular expression.
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Pattern. \b(\d+) (Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Sept|Oct|Nov|Dec)([a-z]+) Replacement. \1 \2\3 And here's an expression to avoid breaking legitimate dates that are formatted this way. Pattern. \b(\d+) (January|February|March|April|May|June|July|August|September|October|November|December)\b Replacement. \1 \2 On 10/10/2021 10:25 AM, Clement Chou wrote:
Anyone else using Code Factory's Eloquence and Vocalizer getting |
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