NVDA Cursor Help Please


David Russell
 

Hi NVDA,

A few months ago, I replaced my Acer all-in-one computer keyboard with
another purchased at an office supply store. The Acer keyboard was too
sensitive for my use.
According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one
computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?
How can I put the computer in what JAWS used to call "review mode" and
experiment to find out what keys are for insert, delete, page-up,
page-down etc?
The command control+backspace, for example does not work as a delete key for me.
To change punctuation settings, I use the capslock key with the letter p.

Thanks for the help in advance.

I never knew keyboard variation existed until replacing such. Thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...


Gene
 

If you are asking about an external keyboard, it is not a laptop keyboard just because you use it with a laptop.  It could very well be a desktop keyboard in terms of its general configuration.  The laptop layout setting in NVDA is for using a laptop keyboard that doesn’t have a numpad. 
 
The command to turn on and off input help is the same as in JAWS.  NVDA key 1, the number 1 on the main keyboard.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----       

Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 9:32 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Cursor Help Please
 
Hi NVDA,

A few months ago, I replaced my Acer all-in-one computer keyboard with
another purchased at an office supply store. The Acer keyboard was too
sensitive for my use.
According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one
computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?
How can I put the computer in what JAWS used to call "review mode" and
experiment to find out what keys are for insert, delete, page-up,
page-down etc?
The command control+backspace, for example does not work as a delete key for me.
To change punctuation settings, I use the capslock key with the letter p.

Thanks for the help in advance.

I never knew keyboard variation existed until replacing such.  Thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...





Rui Fontes
 

Sorry, but surelly Microsoft accessibility did not understood the question...


Laptop is a computer you can place in your lap to work, and I do not want to put a All-in-one computer in my lap!


Now, if some all-in-one computers have keyboard with a laptop layout is another history!


To know where are the keys, press CapsLock+1 on the number row above the letters...


Rui Fontes




Às 15:32 de 09/11/2021, David Russell escreveu:

Hi NVDA,

A few months ago, I replaced my Acer all-in-one computer keyboard with
another purchased at an office supply store. The Acer keyboard was too
sensitive for my use.
According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one
computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?
How can I put the computer in what JAWS used to call "review mode" and
experiment to find out what keys are for insert, delete, page-up,
page-down etc?
The command control+backspace, for example does not work as a delete key for me.
To change punctuation settings, I use the capslock key with the letter p.

Thanks for the help in advance.

I never knew keyboard variation existed until replacing such. Thanks!


 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 10:32 AM, David Russell wrote:
According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?
-
David, what follows is not aimed at you and you alone, but needs to be said:   KEYBOARD LAYOUT IS ABOUT THE KEYBOARD LAYOUT, PERIOD.  What it is attached to is irrelevant.  You can, and in your case you have, attach a desktop layout keyboard to a desktop, all-in-one, or laptop.  What it's attached to is not what matters, what type of keyboard it is is what does.

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.  These days there are relatively few laptops that come with a "classic laptop" keyboard layout.  I haven't touched a 15 inch or larger laptop without a number pad on it for years now.

You really should be using desktop keyboard layout because you have an actual desktop keyboard layout.

The NVDA Commands Quick Reference can be brought up by any NVDA user via NVDA + N, H, Q.  It will open in your default web browser, and I cannot tell you the number of times I've opened this document when I have forgotten (or never yet learned) the keystokes for a given command.

NVDA calls the mode for listening to what various key press combinations do Input Help Mode.  It can be toggled on/off, regardless of keyboard layout, with NVDA + 1.

If your keyboard has a delete key, and it almost certainly does, using it for its native function makes sense, just as using the applications/menu key does if your keyboard has one rather than SHIFT + F10.

But, were I you, I'd set NVDA to be using desktop keyboard layout as you obviously have purchased a desktop style keyboard.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Jujube
 

To enter input help mode, press NVDA+1


On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:32 AM David Russell <david.sonofhashem@...> wrote:
Hi NVDA,

A few months ago, I replaced my Acer all-in-one computer keyboard with
another purchased at an office supply store. The Acer keyboard was too
sensitive for my use.
According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one
computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?
How can I put the computer in what JAWS used to call "review mode" and
experiment to find out what keys are for insert, delete, page-up,
page-down etc?
The command control+backspace, for example does not work as a delete key for me.
To change punctuation settings, I use the capslock key with the letter p.

Thanks for the help in advance.

I never knew keyboard variation existed until replacing such.  Thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...






Luke Robinett
 

Here’s what Brian‘s response would have looked like without the user shaming he likes to add. I think this line alone would have sufficiently answered OP‘s question:

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.


On Nov 9, 2021, at 7:51 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 10:32 AM, David Russell wrote:
According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?
-
David, what follows is not aimed at you and you alone, but needs to be said:   KEYBOARD LAYOUT IS ABOUT THE KEYBOARD LAYOUT, PERIOD.  What it is attached to is irrelevant.  You can, and in your case you have, attach a desktop layout keyboard to a desktop, all-in-one, or laptop.  What it's attached to is not what matters, what type of keyboard it is is what does.

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.  These days there are relatively few laptops that come with a "classic laptop" keyboard layout.  I haven't touched a 15 inch or larger laptop without a number pad on it for years now.

You really should be using desktop keyboard layout because you have an actual desktop keyboard layout.

The NVDA Commands Quick Reference can be brought up by any NVDA user via NVDA + N, H, Q.  It will open in your default web browser, and I cannot tell you the number of times I've opened this document when I have forgotten (or never yet learned) the keystokes for a given command.

NVDA calls the mode for listening to what various key press combinations do Input Help Mode.  It can be toggled on/off, regardless of keyboard layout, with NVDA + 1.

If your keyboard has a delete key, and it almost certainly does, using it for its native function makes sense, just as using the applications/menu key does if your keyboard has one rather than SHIFT + F10.

But, were I you, I'd set NVDA to be using desktop keyboard layout as you obviously have purchased a desktop style keyboard.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 06:54 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
Here’s what Brian‘s response would have looked like without the user shaming he likes to add.
-
In your opinion.

There has been an ongoing, and consistent, confusion about what keyboard layout really refers to, that has not seemed to go away over time.

I'm not sorry if you find necessary emphasis to be "user shaming."  It's not, and never has been.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I use laptop mode n the desktop layouts, always. I don’t like the  desktop layouts, they can for me go die. I can reach keys a lot easier than on desktop mode. And I don’t have to move my hands a lot.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 3:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Cursor Help Please

 

Here’s what Brian‘s response would have looked like without the user shaming he likes to add. I think this line alone would have sufficiently answered OP‘s question:

 

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.

 

 

On Nov 9, 2021, at 7:51 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 10:32 AM, David Russell wrote:

According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?

-
David, what follows is not aimed at you and you alone, but needs to be said:   KEYBOARD LAYOUT IS ABOUT THE KEYBOARD LAYOUT, PERIOD.  What it is attached to is irrelevant.  You can, and in your case you have, attach a desktop layout keyboard to a desktop, all-in-one, or laptop.  What it's attached to is not what matters, what type of keyboard it is is what does.

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.  These days there are relatively few laptops that come with a "classic laptop" keyboard layout.  I haven't touched a 15 inch or larger laptop without a number pad on it for years now.

You really should be using desktop keyboard layout because you have an actual desktop keyboard layout.

The NVDA Commands Quick Reference can be brought up by any NVDA user via NVDA + N, H, Q.  It will open in your default web browser, and I cannot tell you the number of times I've opened this document when I have forgotten (or never yet learned) the keystokes for a given command.

NVDA calls the mode for listening to what various key press combinations do Input Help Mode.  It can be toggled on/off, regardless of keyboard layout, with NVDA + 1.

If your keyboard has a delete key, and it almost certainly does, using it for its native function makes sense, just as using the applications/menu key does if your keyboard has one rather than SHIFT + F10.

But, were I you, I'd set NVDA to be using desktop keyboard layout as you obviously have purchased a desktop style keyboard.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Gene
 

I think you are saying what you are because you are used to the laptop layout.  Muscle memory allows those used to the desktop layout to move to the numpad and press the key they wish quickly.  Perhaps that is a fractional loss of speed but I wouldn't assume that.  After all. using the laptop layout you have to move to the shift key or use control shift, moving one of your hands away from the home key for a lot of commands. And the desktop layout appears, from the little I've compared, to be more logically laid out and thus easier to learn. 


It is important to guard against conflating what you are used to to having advantages it may not.


Gene

On 11/9/2021 8:36 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actually I use laptop mode n the desktop layouts, always. I don’t like the  desktop layouts, they can for me go die. I can reach keys a lot easier than on desktop mode. And I don’t have to move my hands a lot.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 3:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Cursor Help Please

 

Here’s what Brian‘s response would have looked like without the user shaming he likes to add. I think this line alone would have sufficiently answered OP‘s question:

 

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.

 

 

On Nov 9, 2021, at 7:51 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 10:32 AM, David Russell wrote:

According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?

-
David, what follows is not aimed at you and you alone, but needs to be said:   KEYBOARD LAYOUT IS ABOUT THE KEYBOARD LAYOUT, PERIOD.  What it is attached to is irrelevant.  You can, and in your case you have, attach a desktop layout keyboard to a desktop, all-in-one, or laptop.  What it's attached to is not what matters, what type of keyboard it is is what does.

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.  These days there are relatively few laptops that come with a "classic laptop" keyboard layout.  I haven't touched a 15 inch or larger laptop without a number pad on it for years now.

You really should be using desktop keyboard layout because you have an actual desktop keyboard layout.

The NVDA Commands Quick Reference can be brought up by any NVDA user via NVDA + N, H, Q.  It will open in your default web browser, and I cannot tell you the number of times I've opened this document when I have forgotten (or never yet learned) the keystokes for a given command.

NVDA calls the mode for listening to what various key press combinations do Input Help Mode.  It can be toggled on/off, regardless of keyboard layout, with NVDA + 1.

If your keyboard has a delete key, and it almost certainly does, using it for its native function makes sense, just as using the applications/menu key does if your keyboard has one rather than SHIFT + F10.

But, were I you, I'd set NVDA to be using desktop keyboard layout as you obviously have purchased a desktop style keyboard.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I have very long ish fingers so I don’t’ have to shift my hands all that much.k I’ve used the desktop layouts before and I can’t really grasp said layouts, I never was able to, not in my almost 30 years of computer usage.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 8:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Cursor Help Please

 

I think you are saying what you are because you are used to the laptop layout.  Muscle memory allows those used to the desktop layout to move to the numpad and press the key they wish quickly.  Perhaps that is a fractional loss of speed but I wouldn't assume that.  After all. using the laptop layout you have to move to the shift key or use control shift, moving one of your hands away from the home key for a lot of commands. And the desktop layout appears, from the little I've compared, to be more logically laid out and thus easier to learn. 

 

It is important to guard against conflating what you are used to to having advantages it may not.

 

Gene

On 11/9/2021 8:36 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actually I use laptop mode n the desktop layouts, always. I don’t like the  desktop layouts, they can for me go die. I can reach keys a lot easier than on desktop mode. And I don’t have to move my hands a lot.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 3:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Cursor Help Please

 

Here’s what Brian‘s response would have looked like without the user shaming he likes to add. I think this line alone would have sufficiently answered OP‘s question:

 

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.

 

 

On Nov 9, 2021, at 7:51 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 10:32 AM, David Russell wrote:

According to the Disability Answer Desk, Microsoft, All-in-one computers are considered laptops.
Thus is the keyboard setup like a laptop then?

-
David, what follows is not aimed at you and you alone, but needs to be said:   KEYBOARD LAYOUT IS ABOUT THE KEYBOARD LAYOUT, PERIOD.  What it is attached to is irrelevant.  You can, and in your case you have, attach a desktop layout keyboard to a desktop, all-in-one, or laptop.  What it's attached to is not what matters, what type of keyboard it is is what does.

If you have a keyboard with a full number pad, whether it's native to a laptop or attached to a laptop or a desktop, you can use desktop layout if you wish, because the keyboard itself is a classic desktop keyboard layout.  The laptop keyboard layout and commands exists for those laptops that do not have a built-in number pad on their native keyboard and that's the actual keyboard being used.  These days there are relatively few laptops that come with a "classic laptop" keyboard layout.  I haven't touched a 15 inch or larger laptop without a number pad on it for years now.

You really should be using desktop keyboard layout because you have an actual desktop keyboard layout.

The NVDA Commands Quick Reference can be brought up by any NVDA user via NVDA + N, H, Q.  It will open in your default web browser, and I cannot tell you the number of times I've opened this document when I have forgotten (or never yet learned) the keystokes for a given command.

NVDA calls the mode for listening to what various key press combinations do Input Help Mode.  It can be toggled on/off, regardless of keyboard layout, with NVDA + 1.

If your keyboard has a delete key, and it almost certainly does, using it for its native function makes sense, just as using the applications/menu key does if your keyboard has one rather than SHIFT + F10.

But, were I you, I'd set NVDA to be using desktop keyboard layout as you obviously have purchased a desktop style keyboard.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 09:36 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Actually I use laptop mode in the desktop layouts, always.
-
And, Sarah, in that regard you are most definitely an outlier.  But, if that's what you prefer, more power to you!  There's nothing wrong with doing that.

The main point I was trying to make earlier is that the original poster seemed to believe that the choice of keyboard layout was somehow dictated by the type of computer that an external keyboard is connected to rather than the layout of the keyboard itself, and also seemed by indirect implication to be far more familiar with the desktop layout and struggling to learn laptop layout.

If you've got a full-sized keyboard with numberpad then, if it's what you prefer, then you can and should use desktop keyboard layout no matter what that keyboard is attached to or built-in to.  But, if you always prefer laptop layout, and are used to it, then you can certainly use it with a full-sized keyboard, but it's never necessary to use it with one.  But if you have a true laptop keyboard sans number pad and that's what has to be used then laptop layout is the only option.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


David Russell
 

Hi NVDA,

I did not feel shamed or put down by any of the responses seen, eleven in total.
I seem to recall though that with Jaws, which I used in the early
2000s, review mode was on the keyboard to the right of the function
keys, top row, rather than f1 or some other variance thereof.
Anyhow, knowing capslock 1 will do the trick is welcomed knowledge by
me, thanks.

As to the issue of how to know the difference between a laptop and or
desktop keyboard, I did not know the presence or absence of the numpad
was the determiner.
The Disability Answer Desk person based their answer on appearance. A
desktop PC is a tower. An all-in-one is not a tower but resembles more
that of a laptop.
I guess that is the ongoing debate in the computer world from
comparing discussions. I I am grateful to each of you for your input
on this matter!

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...
Life is made up of sobs, sniffles, and smiles, with sniffles
predominating. (O. Henry)


Gene
 

The JAWS cursor is a way of moving around the screen and it moves the mouse as you move.  You are talking about that as being activated on the numpad in the JAWS desktop layout.  It has nothing to do with the feature that announces keys and their functions.  Both JAWS and NVDA have this feature.  The command is the same in each.  Its JAWS key 1 in JAWS and NVDA key 1 in NVDA.  In both cases, it is a toggle. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2021 10:11 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Cursor Help Ct.
 
Hi NVDA,

I did not feel shamed or put down by any of the responses seen, eleven in total.
I seem to recall though that with Jaws, which I used in the early
2000s, review mode was on the keyboard to the right of the function
keys, top row, rather than f1 or some other variance thereof.
Anyhow, knowing capslock 1 will do the trick is welcomed knowledge by
me, thanks.

As to the issue of how to know the difference between a laptop and or
desktop keyboard, I did not know the presence or absence of the numpad
was the determiner.
The Disability Answer Desk person based their answer on appearance. A
desktop PC is a tower. An all-in-one is not a tower but resembles more
that of a laptop.
I guess that is the ongoing debate in the computer world from
comparing discussions. I I am grateful to each of you for your input
on this matter!

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...
Life is made up of sobs, sniffles, and smiles, with sniffles
predominating. (O. Henry)