Associations with edit boxes and labels


Christopher Gray
 

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign.  Am I doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 


Jackie
 

You're going to have to use not only your tab key, but your arrow keys
as well, Chris. Just FYI, this is pretty standard procedure.

On 12/6/21, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:
I'm having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites. For
example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit
boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign. Am I
doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?



Many thanks.



Chris








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Gene
 

There are no edit fields on the home page, which is where you get when we use what you wrote.  Please go to the page where you are working, copy the address from the address bar, and paste the address into a message.  That is what people should do when they want a page looked at.  A lot of people don’t know that and I hope that if I point that out when problems arise, more people will learn that that is the correct procedure. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels
 

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign.  Am I doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Have you tried reading these in focus mode? This is often how I read boxes with no labels.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher Gray
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 5:12 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels

 

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign.  Am I doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 


Gene
 

I see that you said countdown 2021.  I didn’t go to that page.  It would save ;people trouble if people give the link of the specific page when asking about a problem.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels
 

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign.  Am I doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 


Jackie
 

Worked for me, though I copied the link as opposed to clicking.

On 12/6/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I see that you said countdown 2021. I didn’t go to that page. It would
save ;people trouble if people give the link of the specific page when
asking about a problem.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Gray
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 7:11 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites. For
example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit
boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign. Am I
doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?



Many thanks.



Chris








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Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 08:47 PM, Gene wrote:
It would save ;people trouble if people give the link of the specific page when asking about a problem.
-
The link given was: mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 which goes directly to that page if copied and pasted.

 Holiday Countdown and Christmas Party 2021 | Mushroom FM 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Gene
 

Not to belabor the point but since what you wrote doesn’t show as a link, and I have punctuation off, I didn’t know you had sent a slash before countdown 2021.  I’m not singling you out because I see this done often enough to cause inconvenience by many people. 
 
Now that I found the page, I’ll make the following comments:
You said you tabbed down to the edit field  That’s a great deal of tabbing.  If you don’t know quick navigation keys such as e, for move to the next edit field, h, move by heading, b, move by button, and others, you will save an enormous amount of time if you learn them and use them.  Just pressing e once will move you to the first edit field from the top of the page.
 
I don’t know why you aren’t seeing labels.  I tested with firefox and when I tab or use e, I see labels.  Here is what I hear on the first edit field:
Position 1.  Write the name of a song here here.  Edit, has autocomplete.  But as is sometimes the case, there is more text that just tabbing wont cause to be read.  If I down arrow, I hear this:
or combo box select a tune here for position 1.  If you just tab you won’t hear the word or.  That is important.  Without hearing the word or, you may well not realize that you can do either.  I strongly advise that when working with unfamiliar forms, that people down arrow so as not to miss content.
 
If you don’t hear what I’ve said and you just hear edit, that needs further discussion.  What browser are you using?
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels
 
I see that you said countdown 2021.  I didn’t go to that page.  It would save ;people trouble if people give the link of the specific page when asking about a problem.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 7:11 PM
Subject: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels
 

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign.  Am I doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 


 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 08:11 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels,
-
I don't think you've done anything wrong.  In looking at the page source HTML it looks peculiar in certain ways, at least to me.  There is label information but it's clearly not being exposed the way it usually would be to the screen reader.  I'm not good enough at HTML code to know where "the start of the problem" is, but I suspect something in how the page is coded has, effectively, rendered some of the edit box labels invisible to the screen reader and, as a result, it's not reading them.

For those who are more HTML literate than myself, they may be able to tell what's going on with this page source.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Gene
 

But it isn’t in the form of a link.  Yes, if I had had punctuation on and heard the slash, I would have copied the whole thing. 
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels
 
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 08:47 PM, Gene wrote:
It would save ;people trouble if people give the link of the specific page when asking about a problem.
-
The link given was: mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 which goes directly to that page if copied and pasted.

 Holiday Countdown and Christmas Party 2021 | Mushroom FM 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 09:04 PM, Gene wrote:
If you don’t hear what I’ve said and you just hear edit, that needs further discussion.  What browser are you using?
-
I should have noted that I hear what you are for the table entries, but once you get past those to the straight edit boxes, such as twitter, I'm not hearing what I'm seeing shown on the page nor what is in the label item for that edit box in the page source.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Gene
 

I didn’t check that far.  I’ll see what I hear using Firefox and perhaps with Chrome..
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels
 
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 09:04 PM, Gene wrote:
If you don’t hear what I’ve said and you just hear edit, that needs further discussion.  What browser are you using?
-
I should have noted that I hear what you are for the table entries, but once you get past those to the straight edit boxes, such as twitter, I'm not hearing what I'm seeing shown on the page nor what is in the label item for that edit box in the page source.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 09:07 PM, Gene wrote:
But it isn’t in the form of a link. 
-
Indeed it isn't, Gene, but there are a huge number of people who don't include the https:// or http:// in front of a URL when putting it in a sentence.  You don't even need it when pasting into a web browser as it will add it on its own.

I'm not arguing that your suggestion about copying and pasting straight out of the address bar is not best practice, but I've long ago lost hope that this will ever become universal practice.  And the fact that every web browser I know of will now automatically prepend a missing http:// or https:// has made it more likely, not less, that people will just not have that part.

You've got to look at the entirety of the sequence of characters, which amounts to one huge word unit, to know it's a URL without its prefix.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Gene
 

This is an excellent example of why I strongly advise that people down arrow through unfamiliar forms.  If you do, you hear every label above the associated edit field.  If the coding were correct, you would hear the labels as you moved directlyy from edit field to edit field but you never know when you will come across incorrect coding nor can you be sure you don’t miss text that is in between the labels that you might want to know about.
 
Gene
-----POriginal Message-----

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2021 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels
 
On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 09:04 PM, Gene wrote:
If you don’t hear what I’ve said and you just hear edit, that needs further discussion.  What browser are you using?
-
I should have noted that I hear what you are for the table entries, but once you get past those to the straight edit boxes, such as twitter, I'm not hearing what I'm seeing shown on the page nor what is in the label item for that edit box in the page source.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:
This is an excellent example of why I strongly advise that people down arrow through unfamiliar forms. 
-
And we're back to a twist on an earlier theme:  What you should do in "new territory" and what you do in "old territory" are very often quite different, and for good reason.

It might make sense to jump to the first edit box, then start up/down arrowing, but still the principle you're describing makes life easier when you have no idea of what may or may not be present.

This is still sloppy coding of some kind, though, and needs to be fixed if the entity presenting this page wants it to be "conventionally accessible."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Jonathan COHN
 

For the Mushroom FM site which has caused most of the discussion, there is no formal label element, but the input text fields are labeled with "aria-label" attribute I would expect every browser to populate the aria-label as a label for the form field except Internet Explorer. 
This has been a markup strategy for more than 8 years.
Considering the auto-fill feature with an associated select pull down, this sight is quite accessible forVoiceOver / Mac and NVDA.
I too would be interested to know the browser and version of NVDA that you are using where you were not getting names for the input areas.
Thanks!
Jonathan


On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:11, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign.  Am I doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?
 
Many thanks.
 
Chris
 


 

Jonathan,

For my part when testing this out, I was using Edge Dev, Version 98.0.1089.1 (Official build) dev (64-bit)
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


Christopher Gray
 

I am using the most recent version of NVDA. 

 

I’m using for my browser Firefox 94.0.2.

 

Chris

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jonathan COHN via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 7:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Cc: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels

 

For the Mushroom FM site which has caused most of the discussion, there is no formal label element, but the input text fields are labeled with "aria-label" attribute I would expect every browser to populate the aria-label as a label for the form field except Internet Explorer. 

This has been a markup strategy for more than 8 years.

Considering the auto-fill feature with an associated select pull down, this sight is quite accessible forVoiceOver / Mac and NVDA.

I too would be interested to know the browser and version of NVDA that you are using where you were not getting names for the input areas.

Thanks!

Jonathan

 



On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:11, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:

 

I’m having a problem with finding labels for edit boxes on websites.  For example, if I go to mushroomfm.com/countdown2021 and tab down to the edit boxes, I see no labels, and on the Twitter edit box I see no @-sign.  Am I doing something wrong or maybe have a bad setting?

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris

 

 


Christopher Gray
 

Brian and All:

 

When I am in the form, my up/down arrows go nowhere.  For instance, let’s say I’m in the first edit box of the form.  Up/down arrows move me nowhere.  This is also troue in the earlier combo boxes and edit boxes.  In MVDA, I’m totally stuck in my current location.

 

Chris

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 6:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Associations with edit boxes and labels

 

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 09:14 PM, Gene wrote:

This is an excellent example of why I strongly advise that people down arrow through unfamiliar forms. 

-
And we're back to a twist on an earlier theme:  What you should do in "new territory" and what you do in "old territory" are very often quite different, and for good reason.

It might make sense to jump to the first edit box, then start up/down arrowing, but still the principle you're describing makes life easier when you have no idea of what may or may not be present.

This is still sloppy coding of some kind, though, and needs to be fixed if the entity presenting this page wants it to be "conventionally accessible."
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard

 


 

Chris,

I've got the same situation as you do with regard to up/down arrows.  But, I constantly forget that Gene has the NVDA default behavior of auto-switching between browse and focus mode turned off, as he prefers to manually mode-switch.  Up/down arrow when in an edit box to move out of it to whatever follows it on the page only works when your are in browse mode, and under NVDA defaults you will auto-switch to focus mode when you land in an edit box.  If you're in focus mode, and the box is empty, you'll hear blank if you down arrow.

Try hitting NVDA + Spacebar when you're in the edit box to toggle from focus back to browse mode and then down arrow.  I just did this and once you manually toggle out of focus mode you'll stay in browse mode until you toggle back, so down arrowing continues to work.

What's really interesting is that three edit boxes, full name, email address, and twitter name are the boxes sans any labels announced, but when you land in the edit box for Any extra things you think we should know and are in auto switch mode and it switches to focus mode it is announced.  Truly weird in terms of accessibility in a form.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard