locked Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice


 

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 08:54 AM, tim wrote:
Well if it solved. Then why does the same issue keep coming back, because not solved.
-
The answer is simple:  It doesn't keep coming back.

What's happening is the stragglers who are not updating on a timely basis, nor reading the forum about identified issues like this one, hit the issue much later than the majority and think it's new.  That, and only that, is the problem here.

This bug was solved, and remains solved.  I have yet to hear of a single, solitary person who's installed 2021.3 or later, even if they intentionally rolled back to an earlier version after having done so, having this update issue recur.

And with this post, the topic is locked.  This was not intended to be a discussion, but a way to let those who remained on earlier versions who are now encountering the update issue how to solve it.  And the solution is downloading the installer for the latest NVDA and running it, NOT trying to update from within NVDA itself in those earlier versions because since the problem lies with that mechanism that just doesn't work.
 
There is absolutely no reason to remove any user settings or add-ons to solve THIS particular problem, and it is a complete waste of time and effort to do so.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


tim
 

Well if it solved. Then why does the same issue keep coming back, because not solved.

If you want to remove NVDA totally.

Just make sure the NVDA folder in program files x86\ NVDA and users\ your account\ apt data\ roaming\ NVDA are deleted.

Then when you reinstall it will find nothing left and install like new.

Without removing the apt data\ roaming\ NVDA folder. All problems with last install will still be there.

may take some time doing a clean remove, but you will waste less time and set it up better.

i never keep program settings, because that may be where the problem is.


On 1/13/2022 5:41 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
We seem to keep having cycles of "the update issue" which is well known, and already solved, popping up again and again.  I am hoping this Admin Notice will help those who might encounter the issue to fix it just from having read this message.  Please file this if you are using NVDA 2021.1 or 2021.2 (or even some earlier version of NVDA) as you will almost assuredly need this information.

The update problem is cause by a certificate issue and a Windows-based certificate.  It is not a problem with NVDA, per se, but something that NVDA is seeking from Windows when trying to update.  This issue is fixed, permanently, with NVDA Version 2023.1.  The current version of NVDA as of this writing is 2021.3.1.

You cannot fix this problem by trying to update/upgrade from within NVDA, as that's the part that's broken.  You MUST download the latest version of NVDA from NVAccess and use that installer.   For NVDA 2021.3.1, the direct download link for the NVDA installer is:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2021.3.1/nvda_2021.3.1.exe 

[As an aside, if you're ever looking for an older version of NVDA, just change the "2021.3.1" in both places in the URL with the version number you want.]

After you have the installer in hand, you can either uninstall the current version and then run the new installer (preferable), or do an install-over install by just running the new installer.  Both have worked in my experience, but the former is the one that ensures you are "clean as a whistle" before going forward.

If, by chance, you really need to be on a version of NVDA that is prior to 2021.3.1, then you can reinstall it afterward, and the issue that was causing the update to stall previously will still be fixed, as it is fixed by the certificate tweaking that the installer for 2021.3.1 does in folders not belonging to NVDA.  You can use the download link given above with the  release number changed to the release you want to get.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 06:44 PM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps this discussion may help many people realize that they can update easily even if the updater doesn’t work for some reason. 
-
I certainly hope so.

I have, on occasions, been called upon to install special builds to test fixes to bugs I've reported.  I've always just slapped those in and then slapped the production version back in afterward without ever backing up a single user setting or add-on I have installed.

They just stay there.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Yes they sure could. I do that and have without any issues, still though it’s good to have a fall back in case something borks.

 

I dun no if that will help but here’s hoping.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

 

Could the user run the installer and leve the currently installed version in place?  Even if the user should uninstall the current version, from what you say, installing the new version after uninstalling the currently installed version would not mean that anything was lost or very little, if anything.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

 

Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Oh no I’m paranoid. Lol! I’d be the one that does the portable install before uninstalling just in case as I’m cursed. Hardy har har.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 3:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice

 

Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Gene
 

I’m glad manually updating is so easy.  Perhaps this discussion may help many people realize that they can update easily even if the updater doesn’t work for some reason. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 06:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Will you be warned about what you will lose during installation?
-
Gene,

No, because you would never lose anything during installation.

It's been ages since I paid attention to exactly what happens during an NVDA uninstall.  I'm on complete auto-pilot and just know what I need to hit to get it to uninstall while leaving my stuff in place.  There is no correctly written uninstaller that will not warn you if, during the uninstall, your user settings were being removed along with the software as well.  They're generally not, and most modern uninstallers have an explicit dialog that asks you whether you intend to reinstall or not, and if you do not if you wish to remove your user data as well.

I'll bet Quentin sees this topic and can answer definitively about what NVDA asks during the uninstall process.

I've also never had an issue with an install-over install, either, as this doesn't touch the user's AppData folder, either, and it's been just like an uninstall/reinstall when I've done it.  That is, for all practical intents and purposes, what an "upgrade from within NVDA itself" does.  I believe the NVDA installer will uninstall an existing prior version when it runs, no matter how it was triggered, if memory serves.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 06:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Will you be warned about what you will lose during installation?
-
Gene,

No, because you would never lose anything during installation.

It's been ages since I paid attention to exactly what happens during an NVDA uninstall.  I'm on complete auto-pilot and just know what I need to hit to get it to uninstall while leaving my stuff in place.  There is no correctly written uninstaller that will not warn you if, during the uninstall, your user settings were being removed along with the software as well.  They're generally not, and most modern uninstallers have an explicit dialog that asks you whether you intend to reinstall or not, and if you do not if you wish to remove your user data as well.

I'll bet Quentin sees this topic and can answer definitively about what NVDA asks during the uninstall process.

I've also never had an issue with an install-over install, either, as this doesn't touch the user's AppData folder, either, and it's been just like an uninstall/reinstall when I've done it.  That is, for all practical intents and purposes, what an "upgrade from within NVDA itself" does.  I believe the NVDA installer will uninstall an existing prior version when it runs, no matter how it was triggered, if memory serves.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Gene
 

I should revise what I said.  I don’t know if the currently installed version should be uninstalled before installing the new version but from what you say, nothing will be lost even if you uninstall the version you are running before installing the current version except uncompatible add-ons. 
 
Will you be warned about what you will lose during installation?
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
Could the user run the installer and leve the currently installed version in place?  Even if the user should uninstall the current version, from what you say, installing the new version after uninstalling the currently installed version would not mean that anything was lost or very little, if anything.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Gene
 

Could the user run the installer and leve the currently installed version in place?  Even if the user should uninstall the current version, from what you say, installing the new version after uninstalling the currently installed version would not mean that anything was lost or very little, if anything.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

Gene,

A typical uninstall of NVDA (like a lot of programs) does not remove user settings by default.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled on multiple occasions and all of my user settings and add-ons have remained entirely intact (with the exception, of course, of certain incompatible add-ons being disabled if the newer version of NVDA determines them to be incompatible.  But that doesn't count, as it's by design, and the add-ons aren't removed, they're still shown in add-ons manager and disabled).

If someone wants to create a portable version of the current instance of NVDA with all settings, then more power to them.  But it's generally unnecessary.

Most modern programs employ the individual user account's AppData directory (which is normally an invisible folder in Windows unless you tweak things to make it show) to store things like settings and the like that are user selected, and uninstalls almost never remove these by default, though many give the option of removing them if you don't intend to reinstall, and the dialogs related to the removal make that very clear.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Gene
 

I’m not sure if or when this may have been discussed here.  If someone doesn’t want to have to manually set all settings again and install all add-ons and set up all profiles again, it would seem to me that the following should be done.
If there are faster or easier ways to do what I am describing, I hope they will be discussed:
 
Before uninstalling the version you are using and installing the current version, create a portable version of NVDA and tell it to keep everything.  I don’t know what the wording is when you create the portable version.
Then uninstall the installed version and install the current version.  Since you have now fixed the update issue, uninstall the current version and create an installed version from the portable version. Then use the updater to update to the current verssion again.
 
As I understand how this works, you have now updated to the current version and haven’t lost anything from the older version.
 
Gene. 

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:41 PM
Subject: [nvda] Update issues - NVDA 2021.1 & 2 along with Add-Ons in those two Versions #adminnotice
 
We seem to keep having cycles of "the update issue" which is well known, and already solved, popping up again and again.  I am hoping this Admin Notice will help those who might encounter the issue to fix it just from having read this message.  Please file this if you are using NVDA 2021.1 or 2021.2 (or even some earlier version of NVDA) as you will almost assuredly need this information.

The update problem is cause by a certificate issue and a Windows-based certificate.  It is not a problem with NVDA, per se, but something that NVDA is seeking from Windows when trying to update.  This issue is fixed, permanently, with NVDA Version 2023.1.  The current version of NVDA as of this writing is 2021.3.1.

You cannot fix this problem by trying to update/upgrade from within NVDA, as that's the part that's broken.  You MUST download the latest version of NVDA from NVAccess and use that installer.   For NVDA 2021.3.1, the direct download link for the NVDA installer is:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2021.3.1/nvda_2021.3.1.exe 

[As an aside, if you're ever looking for an older version of NVDA, just change the "2021.3.1" in both places in the URL with the version number you want.]

After you have the installer in hand, you can either uninstall the current version and then run the new installer (preferable), or do an install-over install by just running the new installer.  Both have worked in my experience, but the former is the one that ensures you are "clean as a whistle" before going forward.

If, by chance, you really need to be on a version of NVDA that is prior to 2021.3.1, then you can reinstall it afterward, and the issue that was causing the update to stall previously will still be fixed, as it is fixed by the certificate tweaking that the installer for 2021.3.1 does in folders not belonging to NVDA.  You can use the download link given above with the  release number changed to the release you want to get.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

We seem to keep having cycles of "the update issue" which is well known, and already solved, popping up again and again.  I am hoping this Admin Notice will help those who might encounter the issue to fix it just from having read this message.  Please file this if you are using NVDA 2021.1 or 2021.2 (or even some earlier version of NVDA) as you will almost assuredly need this information.

The update problem is cause by a certificate issue and a Windows-based certificate.  It is not a problem with NVDA, per se, but something that NVDA is seeking from Windows when trying to update.  This issue is fixed, permanently, with NVDA Version 2023.1.  The current version of NVDA as of this writing is 2021.3.1.

You cannot fix this problem by trying to update/upgrade from within NVDA, as that's the part that's broken.  You MUST download the latest version of NVDA from NVAccess and use that installer.   For NVDA 2021.3.1, the direct download link for the NVDA installer is:

https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2021.3.1/nvda_2021.3.1.exe 

[As an aside, if you're ever looking for an older version of NVDA, just change the "2021.3.1" in both places in the URL with the version number you want.]

After you have the installer in hand, you can either uninstall the current version and then run the new installer (preferable), or do an install-over install by just running the new installer.  Both have worked in my experience, but the former is the one that ensures you are "clean as a whistle" before going forward.

If, by chance, you really need to be on a version of NVDA that is prior to 2021.3.1, then you can reinstall it afterward, and the issue that was causing the update to stall previously will still be fixed, as it is fixed by the certificate tweaking that the installer for 2021.3.1 does in folders not belonging to NVDA.  You can use the download link given above with the  release number changed to the release you want to get.

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)