Google Docs and Browse Mode


Jonathan Milam
 

Hi All,

I am having an issue where, when I'm reading a Google Doc, I am unable to see the entire document while in Browse mode.  Is anyone else having this issue?  I literally have to find the section I want to read in focus mode, and then switch back to browse mode and most of the time I am able to read that particular section.  It's almost like the browse mode buffer is not large enough to allow the entire document to load.  This is happening regardless of browser with Windows 10.

Thanks,
Jonathan


 

I wonder if something weird is going on with Google Docs itself.

I was just trying to help someone out who was trying to read a PDF file using Google Docs and the original is about 150 pages in length, which is not "immensely large" for a PDF.  But when you open it in Google Docs, only roughly half of the pages load, and then it stops.  It opens fine in regular PDF reading programs, and even in Word 2016.

I can't imagine this having been the default behavior in Google Docs for any period of time without a big stink being made about it, but I don't use Google Docs online editing often enough to know.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Jonathan Milam
 

I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.

Jonathan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 10:37 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
I wonder if something weird is going on with Google Docs itself.

I was just trying to help someone out who was trying to read a PDF file using Google Docs and the original is about 150 pages in length, which is not "immensely large" for a PDF.  But when you open it in Google Docs, only roughly half of the pages load, and then it stops.  It opens fine in regular PDF reading programs, and even in Word 2016.

I can't imagine this having been the default behavior in Google Docs for any period of time without a big stink being made about it, but I don't use Google Docs online editing often enough to know.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.
-
Just curious, but what is the size (roughly, and in pages) of these documents?   I'm wondering if this is a "large document" issue or if it occurs on trivially short documents as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Jonathan Milam
 

Hi Brian,

It seems to only happen with docs that are more than a few pages in length.  Interestingly enough, JAWS doesn't have this issue.  Can anyone else replicate?

Jonathan


On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:34 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.
-
Just curious, but what is the size (roughly, and in pages) of these documents?   I'm wondering if this is a "large document" issue or if it occurs on trivially short documents as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

Jonathan,

 

This is interesting, because the issue I’m seeing is occurring for the test document I was using regardless of whether NVDA was “in the picture” or not.  The file was just being truncated at approximately its halfway point, and the original was a PDF format being opened by Google Docs.

 

I will be curious to see what others can and cannot replicate in this regard, and even using other screen readers, as differences in behavior for exactly the same document in Google Docs with different screen readers would point to the screen reader (or, perhaps, an add-on) as the likely culprit.

 

On that note, have you tested with NVDA after restarting it with Add-Ons disabled?  That would help to either rule in or out an add-on versus NVDA itself.

 

Brian


Jonathan Milam
 

Actually, JAWS is apparently worse, because I can't even read a Google Doc in browse mode with JAWS.  I can of course read it within Focus mode with NVDA, but the drawback there is that I can't easily use WebNav commands.


Jonathan


On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 1:42 PM Milam, Jonathan <milamj@...> wrote:
Hi Brian,

It seems to only happen with docs that are more than a few pages in length.  Interestingly enough, JAWS doesn't have this issue.  Can anyone else replicate?

Jonathan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:34 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.
-
Just curious, but what is the size (roughly, and in pages) of these documents?   I'm wondering if this is a "large document" issue or if it occurs on trivially short documents as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 


Well being jaws you probably need jaws scripts for google docs.




On 4/02/2022 7:54 am, Jonathan Milam wrote:

Actually, JAWS is apparently worse, because I can't even read a Google Doc in browse mode with JAWS.  I can of course read it within Focus mode with NVDA, but the drawback there is that I can't easily use WebNav commands.


Jonathan


On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 1:42 PM Milam, Jonathan <milamj@...> wrote:
Hi Brian,

It seems to only happen with docs that are more than a few pages in length.  Interestingly enough, JAWS doesn't have this issue.  Can anyone else replicate?

Jonathan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:34 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.
-
Just curious, but what is the size (roughly, and in pages) of these documents?   I'm wondering if this is a "large document" issue or if it occurs on trivially short documents as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Christopher Bartlett
 

I encountered a situation yesterday where I was attempting to read a 20 page google doc and couldn't use say all in either mode.  Also, the Google Docs keyboard shortcut crtl-alt-a ctrl-alt/r, which is supposed to read the document aloud from the cursor wasn't working.

Christopher Bartlett


On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 8:24 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:


Well being jaws you probably need jaws scripts for google docs.




On 4/02/2022 7:54 am, Jonathan Milam wrote:
Actually, JAWS is apparently worse, because I can't even read a Google Doc in browse mode with JAWS.  I can of course read it within Focus mode with NVDA, but the drawback there is that I can't easily use WebNav commands.


Jonathan


On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 1:42 PM Milam, Jonathan <milamj@...> wrote:
Hi Brian,

It seems to only happen with docs that are more than a few pages in length.  Interestingly enough, JAWS doesn't have this issue.  Can anyone else replicate?

Jonathan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:34 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.
-
Just curious, but what is the size (roughly, and in pages) of these documents?   I'm wondering if this is a "large document" issue or if it occurs on trivially short documents as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 



--
Christopher Bartlett


Jonathan Milam
 

Yes, I have this issue as well.  When you loaded the document, were you able to see it in its entirety from beginning to end in browse mode?

Jonathan


On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 7:59 AM Christopher Bartlett <themusicalbrewer@...> wrote:
I encountered a situation yesterday where I was attempting to read a 20 page google doc and couldn't use say all in either mode.  Also, the Google Docs keyboard shortcut crtl-alt-a ctrl-alt/r, which is supposed to read the document aloud from the cursor wasn't working.

Christopher Bartlett


On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 8:24 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:


Well being jaws you probably need jaws scripts for google docs.




On 4/02/2022 7:54 am, Jonathan Milam wrote:
Actually, JAWS is apparently worse, because I can't even read a Google Doc in browse mode with JAWS.  I can of course read it within Focus mode with NVDA, but the drawback there is that I can't easily use WebNav commands.


Jonathan


On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 1:42 PM Milam, Jonathan <milamj@...> wrote:
Hi Brian,

It seems to only happen with docs that are more than a few pages in length.  Interestingly enough, JAWS doesn't have this issue.  Can anyone else replicate?

Jonathan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:34 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.
-
Just curious, but what is the size (roughly, and in pages) of these documents?   I'm wondering if this is a "large document" issue or if it occurs on trivially short documents as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 



--
Christopher Bartlett

--

 

 

             

 

Jonathan

 

_________________

Jonathan Milam

Support Analyst, Technology Accessibility

Information Systems

Wake Forest University

P.O. Box 7408

Winston-Salem, NC 27109

P: 336-758-5893

Pronouns: he/him/his

 

Schedule a conversation on technology accessibility using the Technology Accessibility appointment calendar or email me for more options!

 


Louis Maher
 

Can you down load it as a Microsoft word file?

 

 

Regards

Louis Maher

Phone: 713-444-7838

E-mail: ljmaher03@...

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett
Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 6:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google Docs and Browse Mode

 

I encountered a situation yesterday where I was attempting to read a 20 page google doc and couldn't use say all in either mode.  Also, the Google Docs keyboard shortcut crtl-alt-a ctrl-alt/r, which is supposed to read the document aloud from the cursor wasn't working.

 

Christopher Bartlett

 

 

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 8:24 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

 

Well being jaws you probably need jaws scripts for google docs.

 

 

 

On 4/02/2022 7:54 am, Jonathan Milam wrote:

Actually, JAWS is apparently worse, because I can't even read a Google Doc in browse mode with JAWS.  I can of course read it within Focus mode with NVDA, but the drawback there is that I can't easily use WebNav commands.

 

 

Jonathan

 

 

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 1:42 PM Milam, Jonathan <milamj@...> wrote:

Hi Brian,

 

It seems to only happen with docs that are more than a few pages in length.  Interestingly enough, JAWS doesn't have this issue.  Can anyone else replicate?

 

Jonathan

 

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:34 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Milam wrote:

I've actually been having this problem for quite a while, and it just never gets resolved unfortunately.

-
Just curious, but what is the size (roughly, and in pages) of these documents?   I'm wondering if this is a "large document" issue or if it occurs on trivially short documents as well.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

--

Christopher Bartlett


 

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 09:47 AM, Louis Maher wrote:
Can you down load it as a Microsoft word file?
-
I imagine it is possible to download and open locally if the program that can open the file is on a given machine, and this would be a good workaround.

That being said, Google Docs is so commonly used now that if major accessibility issues are creeping in, they really need to be addressed.  Google does have a Disability Support Team, and if you go to, g.co/disabilitysupport, to reach out to them they will file a ticket about any issues raised, and help with any troubleshooting.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Jonathan Milam
 

Yeah I could do that, but as Brian said, it's a work-around that we actually shouldn't have to do.  I actually did reach out to Google Accessibility and they weren't able to replicate my issue. :(

Jonathan


On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 9:58 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 09:47 AM, Louis Maher wrote:
Can you down load it as a Microsoft word file?
-
I imagine it is possible to download and open locally if the program that can open the file is on a given machine, and this would be a good workaround.

That being said, Google Docs is so commonly used now that if major accessibility issues are creeping in, they really need to be addressed.  Google does have a Disability Support Team, and if you go to, g.co/disabilitysupport, to reach out to them they will file a ticket about any issues raised, and help with any troubleshooting.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


 

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:32 AM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I actually did reach out to Google Accessibility and they weren't able to replicate my issue. :(
 
-
Good for you!!  And I mean for taking the time to report, even though in this case the issue could not be replicated "on their end."  But did they even take the time to watch it occur on yours?

The recent uptick I've seen in several of the blind technology focused groups about document truncation definitely makes me think something new is afoot.  And that truncation occurred for me even when a screen reader was nowhere in the mix.

But because Google, like many larger companies, has a dedicated Disability Support Team those who use any one of a number of assistive technologies have a far more "direct line in" than all the rest of the user base at large does.

And that's why it's so important to report, even if you get zero resolution at the time.  Almost every one of these calls results in a case being opened, and if enough cases about something exactly the same, or very similar, are opened then when case analysis is done those issues tend to "bubble to the top" and get flagged for closer scrutiny.

It's a PITA sometimes, but no software maker can, or will even attempt to, fix something they are completely unaware of.  And if only a tiny handful of individuals report an issue, and the help desk person can't replicate it, it will justifiably be chalked up as an isolated incident.  But many isolated incidents of very nearly the same type stop being isolated.  So, please take the time to report.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

 


Jonathan Milam
 

Very good points, Brian.  I absolutely agree.  They didn't but did ask me for a video of the issue.  I too feel that something is going on within the Docs platform.

Jonathan

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 11:36 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:32 AM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
I actually did reach out to Google Accessibility and they weren't able to replicate my issue. :(
 
-
Good for you!!  And I mean for taking the time to report, even though in this case the issue could not be replicated "on their end."  But did they even take the time to watch it occur on yours?

The recent uptick I've seen in several of the blind technology focused groups about document truncation definitely makes me think something new is afoot.  And that truncation occurred for me even when a screen reader was nowhere in the mix.

But because Google, like many larger companies, has a dedicated Disability Support Team those who use any one of a number of assistive technologies have a far more "direct line in" than all the rest of the user base at large does.

And that's why it's so important to report, even if you get zero resolution at the time.  Almost every one of these calls results in a case being opened, and if enough cases about something exactly the same, or very similar, are opened then when case analysis is done those issues tend to "bubble to the top" and get flagged for closer scrutiny.

It's a PITA sometimes, but no software maker can, or will even attempt to, fix something they are completely unaware of.  And if only a tiny handful of individuals report an issue, and the help desk person can't replicate it, it will justifiably be chalked up as an isolated incident.  But many isolated incidents of very nearly the same type stop being isolated.  So, please take the time to report.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)