NVDA Comparative tutorial with JAWS


Ketan Kothari
 

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Gene
 

I don't think a comparative tutorial explaining how to use both screen-readers is necessary.  I think it should be done in instructional material to point out that screen review in NVDA, for example, is similar to usin g the JAWS cursor in what it does and that you use the numpad for screen-review in NVDA while in JAWS you use the navigation commands you use while in the PC cursor.  If the person knows the JAWS cursor, he will understand what is being said.  If not, it won't matter.  The point is that the person learn screen .review and what it is using NVDA.


The same is true for object navigation.


And speaking of object navigation, I just did a tutorial on object navigation whhich I sent to the list a number  of days ago.  I found one very minor mistake in describing a dialog being worked with and another minor mistake.  I'll correct them and send the tutorial again.  I'll explain the error and lack of clarification in detail when I send the tutorial again.  The mistakes are minor and may not affect anyone's understanding, who has used the tutorial so far, but they should be corrected. 


Gene

On 2/24/2022 3:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Gene
 

To slightly change what I said and make it accurate, I realized when I looked at the tutorial again that I am not correcting errors, not even minor ones.  I am making two or three minor changes to, I hope, increase clarity but there are no errors.  I want to reassure those who have worked with the tutorial so far of that.


Gene

On 2/24/2022 6:36 AM, Gene wrote:

I don't think a comparative tutorial explaining how to use both screen-readers is necessary.  I think it should be done in instructional material to point out that screen review in NVDA, for example, is similar to usin g the JAWS cursor in what it does and that you use the numpad for screen-review in NVDA while in JAWS you use the navigation commands you use while in the PC cursor.  If the person knows the JAWS cursor, he will understand what is being said.  If not, it won't matter.  The point is that the person learn screen .review and what it is using NVDA.


The same is true for object navigation.


And speaking of object navigation, I just did a tutorial on object navigation whhich I sent to the list a number  of days ago.  I found one very minor mistake in describing a dialog being worked with and another minor mistake.  I'll correct them and send the tutorial again.  I'll explain the error and lack of clarification in detail when I send the tutorial again.  The mistakes are minor and may not affect anyone's understanding, who has used the tutorial so far, but they should be corrected. 


Gene

On 2/24/2022 3:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Chris Smart
 


Tony Ballou
 

Hi,


This book may be the closest thing to what you're asking about.  It was written by one of our fellow list comrades. 


http://carroll.org/the%20windows%20screen%20reader%20primer/


tony

On 2/24/2022 4:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Quentin Christensen
 

That earlier link seemed to go round about and I believe was trying to get you here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda-community/wiki/SwitchingFromJawsToNVDA

That is our Switching from Jaws to NVDA guide and is what I would recommend for a Jaws user wanting to learn NVDA

On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 4:36 AM Tony Ballou <cyberpro224@...> wrote:

Hi,


This book may be the closest thing to what you're asking about.  It was written by one of our fellow list comrades. 


http://carroll.org/the%20windows%20screen%20reader%20primer/


tony

On 2/24/2022 4:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Ketan Kothari
 

Dear Jean,

 

In that case, Could you briefly explain the concept of screen review?  Preferably with an example?  Sorry for troubling you but that will be of immense help to me.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Comparative tutorial with JAWS

 

I don't think a comparative tutorial explaining how to use both screen-readers is necessary.  I think it should be done in instructional material to point out that screen review in NVDA, for example, is similar to usin g the JAWS cursor in what it does and that you use the numpad for screen-review in NVDA while in JAWS you use the navigation commands you use while in the PC cursor.  If the person knows the JAWS cursor, he will understand what is being said.  If not, it won't matter.  The point is that the person learn screen .review and what it is using NVDA.

 

The same is true for object navigation.

 

And speaking of object navigation, I just did a tutorial on object navigation whhich I sent to the list a number  of days ago.  I found one very minor mistake in describing a dialog being worked with and another minor mistake.  I'll correct them and send the tutorial again.  I'll explain the error and lack of clarification in detail when I send the tutorial again.  The mistakes are minor and may not affect anyone's understanding, who has used the tutorial so far, but they should be corrected. 

 

Gene

On 2/24/2022 3:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Gene
 

Screen review is much more simple and easy to explain than object navigation.


You are moving around the screen, the same screen that a sighted person sees and you can move to what is on the screen. 


In object review, you can move to information not shown on screen.  to give one example, if you open a large document in a word processor, the entire document is one object.  Using object navigation, you can move through the entire document.  In screen review, you can only move through what is being displayed on the screen.


I am using desktop commands in this discussion.  I don't know the laptop commands.  Others may wish to give them.


To enter screen review, use the command numpad insert numpad 7.  You may have to use it more than once, depending on if you are someplace where document review is active.  Issue it until you hear screen review.

If you are already in screen review, you will hear no next review mode.

Once you are finished in review mode, don't forget to return to object navigation.  The command is numpad insert numpad 1.  Issue it until you hear object review.  If you try to move further you will hear, no previous review mode.


The following commands are used in review mode.  If there are any others, I am not aware of them.

those interested may want to check the user guide or quick reference guide or other sources but the following commands are either all or almost all of them.


Note the pattern in the following commands:

Numpad 7.  Move to and say the previous line.

Numpad 8, say the current line.

Numpad 9 move to and say the next line.

I've shortened the descriptions of the following commands in the list because the information I've removed is redundant and applies to all of them.


Numpad 4, previous word.  Numpad 5, current word, Numpad 6 next word.

Numpad 1 previous character.

Numpad 2 current character.

Numpad 3 next character.

Shift numpad 7 moves you to the top of the screen.  Shift numpad 9 moves you to the end.


If you press the say current keys quickly more than once, different behaviors will occur.

Pressing numpad 8 quickly twice spells the entire current line.  Pressing three times says every letter in the current line using the phonetic words for the letterss.  For example, gulf for g, kilo  for k. 

Numpad five when pressed twice spells the current word.  Three times says the phonetic word for every letter in the word.

Numpad 2 pressed twice gives the phonetic word for the current letter.  three times gives the decimal or hexidecimal values.


You can move the mouse to your current position in screen review.  To do so, use the command numpad insert numpad slash. 

Left click the mouse with just numpad slash.  Right click it with numpad star, immediately to the right of numpad slash.  This is the same as opening the context menu from the keyboard.


While screen review is still used, it is not useful in a lot of applications where it used to be.  Because of technical changes in Windows 10, also in Windows 11, it can't be used in many contexts where it could before.  You won't be able to move.


Gene

On 2/24/2022 8:16 PM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Jean,

 

In that case, Could you briefly explain the concept of screen review?  Preferably with an example?  Sorry for troubling you but that will be of immense help to me.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Comparative tutorial with JAWS

 

I don't think a comparative tutorial explaining how to use both screen-readers is necessary.  I think it should be done in instructional material to point out that screen review in NVDA, for example, is similar to usin g the JAWS cursor in what it does and that you use the numpad for screen-review in NVDA while in JAWS you use the navigation commands you use while in the PC cursor.  If the person knows the JAWS cursor, he will understand what is being said.  If not, it won't matter.  The point is that the person learn screen .review and what it is using NVDA.

 

The same is true for object navigation.

 

And speaking of object navigation, I just did a tutorial on object navigation whhich I sent to the list a number  of days ago.  I found one very minor mistake in describing a dialog being worked with and another minor mistake.  I'll correct them and send the tutorial again.  I'll explain the error and lack of clarification in detail when I send the tutorial again.  The mistakes are minor and may not affect anyone's understanding, who has used the tutorial so far, but they should be corrected. 

 

Gene

On 2/24/2022 3:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Mani Iyer
 

Hello Gene,
Thank you again for this tutorial. I have a question about the review modes. What is the reason for having two key combinations( NVDA + Numpad*7 and NNVDA + umpad*1) to get previous and next review modes when you can have one key combination to cycle through the available review modes?

Warmly,
Mani


On Feb 25, 2022, at 2:19 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Screen review is much more simple and easy to explain than object navigation.


You are moving around the screen, the same screen that a sighted person sees and you can move to what is on the screen. 


In object review, you can move to information not shown on screen.  to give one example, if you open a large document in a word processor, the entire document is one object.  Using object navigation, you can move through the entire document.  In screen review, you can only move through what is being displayed on the screen.


I am using desktop commands in this discussion.  I don't know the laptop commands.  Others may wish to give them.


To enter screen review, use the command numpad insert numpad 7.  You may have to use it more than once, depending on if you are someplace where document review is active.  Issue it until you hear screen review.

If you are already in screen review, you will hear no next review mode.

Once you are finished in review mode, don't forget to return to object navigation.  The command is numpad insert numpad 1.  Issue it until you hear object review.  If you try to move further you will hear, no previous review mode.


The following commands are used in review mode.  If there are any others, I am not aware of them.

those interested may want to check the user guide or quick reference guide or other sources but the following commands are either all or almost all of them.


Note the pattern in the following commands:

Numpad 7.  Move to and say the previous line.

Numpad 8, say the current line.

Numpad 9 move to and say the next line.

I've shortened the descriptions of the following commands in the list because the information I've removed is redundant and applies to all of them.


Numpad 4, previous word.  Numpad 5, current word, Numpad 6 next word.

Numpad 1 previous character.

Numpad 2 current character.

Numpad 3 next character.

Shift numpad 7 moves you to the top of the screen.  Shift numpad 9 moves you to the end.


If you press the say current keys quickly more than once, different behaviors will occur.

Pressing numpad 8 quickly twice spells the entire current line.  Pressing three times says every letter in the current line using the phonetic words for the letterss.  For example, gulf for g, kilo  for k. 

Numpad five when pressed twice spells the current word.  Three times says the phonetic word for every letter in the word.

Numpad 2 pressed twice gives the phonetic word for the current letter.  three times gives the decimal or hexidecimal values.


You can move the mouse to your current position in screen review.  To do so, use the command numpad insert numpad slash. 

Left click the mouse with just numpad slash.  Right click it with numpad star, immediately to the right of numpad slash.  This is the same as opening the context menu from the keyboard.


While screen review is still used, it is not useful in a lot of applications where it used to be.  Because of technical changes in Windows 10, also in Windows 11, it can't be used in many contexts where it could before.  You won't be able to move.


Gene

On 2/24/2022 8:16 PM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Jean,

 

In that case, Could you briefly explain the concept of screen review?  Preferably with an example?  Sorry for troubling you but that will be of immense help to me.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Comparative tutorial with JAWS

 

I don't think a comparative tutorial explaining how to use both screen-readers is necessary.  I think it should be done in instructional material to point out that screen review in NVDA, for example, is similar to usin g the JAWS cursor in what it does and that you use the numpad for screen-review in NVDA while in JAWS you use the navigation commands you use while in the PC cursor.  If the person knows the JAWS cursor, he will understand what is being said.  If not, it won't matter.  The point is that the person learn screen .review and what it is using NVDA.

 

The same is true for object navigation.

 

And speaking of object navigation, I just did a tutorial on object navigation whhich I sent to the list a number  of days ago.  I found one very minor mistake in describing a dialog being worked with and another minor mistake.  I'll correct them and send the tutorial again.  I'll explain the error and lack of clarification in detail when I send the tutorial again.  The mistakes are minor and may not affect anyone's understanding, who has used the tutorial so far, but they should be corrected. 

 

Gene

On 2/24/2022 3:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Gene
 

I don't know.  There are different ways many things could be done and this may have been something that was done just because someone did it that way.  There may not have been a question of deciding between ways, it may just have been the way someone designed the interface. 


Gene

On 2/25/2022 10:03 AM, Mani Iyer via groups.io wrote:
Hello Gene,
Thank you again for this tutorial. I have a question about the review modes. What is the reason for having two key combinations( NVDA + Numpad*7 and NNVDA + umpad*1) to get previous and next review modes when you can have one key combination to cycle through the available review modes?

Warmly,
Mani


On Feb 25, 2022, at 2:19 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Screen review is much more simple and easy to explain than object navigation.


You are moving around the screen, the same screen that a sighted person sees and you can move to what is on the screen. 


In object review, you can move to information not shown on screen.  to give one example, if you open a large document in a word processor, the entire document is one object.  Using object navigation, you can move through the entire document.  In screen review, you can only move through what is being displayed on the screen.


I am using desktop commands in this discussion.  I don't know the laptop commands.  Others may wish to give them.


To enter screen review, use the command numpad insert numpad 7.  You may have to use it more than once, depending on if you are someplace where document review is active.  Issue it until you hear screen review.

If you are already in screen review, you will hear no next review mode.

Once you are finished in review mode, don't forget to return to object navigation.  The command is numpad insert numpad 1.  Issue it until you hear object review.  If you try to move further you will hear, no previous review mode.


The following commands are used in review mode.  If there are any others, I am not aware of them.

those interested may want to check the user guide or quick reference guide or other sources but the following commands are either all or almost all of them.


Note the pattern in the following commands:

Numpad 7.  Move to and say the previous line.

Numpad 8, say the current line.

Numpad 9 move to and say the next line.

I've shortened the descriptions of the following commands in the list because the information I've removed is redundant and applies to all of them.


Numpad 4, previous word.  Numpad 5, current word, Numpad 6 next word.

Numpad 1 previous character.

Numpad 2 current character.

Numpad 3 next character.

Shift numpad 7 moves you to the top of the screen.  Shift numpad 9 moves you to the end.


If you press the say current keys quickly more than once, different behaviors will occur.

Pressing numpad 8 quickly twice spells the entire current line.  Pressing three times says every letter in the current line using the phonetic words for the letterss.  For example, gulf for g, kilo  for k. 

Numpad five when pressed twice spells the current word.  Three times says the phonetic word for every letter in the word.

Numpad 2 pressed twice gives the phonetic word for the current letter.  three times gives the decimal or hexidecimal values.


You can move the mouse to your current position in screen review.  To do so, use the command numpad insert numpad slash. 

Left click the mouse with just numpad slash.  Right click it with numpad star, immediately to the right of numpad slash.  This is the same as opening the context menu from the keyboard.


While screen review is still used, it is not useful in a lot of applications where it used to be.  Because of technical changes in Windows 10, also in Windows 11, it can't be used in many contexts where it could before.  You won't be able to move.


Gene

On 2/24/2022 8:16 PM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Jean,

 

In that case, Could you briefly explain the concept of screen review?  Preferably with an example?  Sorry for troubling you but that will be of immense help to me.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 6:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Comparative tutorial with JAWS

 

I don't think a comparative tutorial explaining how to use both screen-readers is necessary.  I think it should be done in instructional material to point out that screen review in NVDA, for example, is similar to usin g the JAWS cursor in what it does and that you use the numpad for screen-review in NVDA while in JAWS you use the navigation commands you use while in the PC cursor.  If the person knows the JAWS cursor, he will understand what is being said.  If not, it won't matter.  The point is that the person learn screen .review and what it is using NVDA.

 

The same is true for object navigation.

 

And speaking of object navigation, I just did a tutorial on object navigation whhich I sent to the list a number  of days ago.  I found one very minor mistake in describing a dialog being worked with and another minor mistake.  I'll correct them and send the tutorial again.  I'll explain the error and lack of clarification in detail when I send the tutorial again.  The mistakes are minor and may not affect anyone's understanding, who has used the tutorial so far, but they should be corrected. 

 

Gene

On 2/24/2022 3:47 AM, Ketan Kothari wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

Has anyone tried producing a comparative tutorial of NVDA with JAWS.  What I mean is that there are some concepts such JAWS cursor, PC cursor etc. in JAWS and object navigation in NVDA.  How does one use either in a given situation?  I think this will also help in increasing usage of NVDA.  Please help.

 

With best wishes,

 

Ketan

 

Ketan Kothari

Mob: +919987550614

Mob:  +917021054612

Twitter: twitter.com/muktaketan

Facebook: muktaketan@...

 


Luke Davis
 

Gene wrote:

I don't know.  There are different ways many things could be done and this
[using two keys to adjust screen/document/object review, instead of a rotating toggle]
may have been something that was done just because someone did it that way. 
There may not have been a question of deciding between ways, it may just have been the way someone designed the interface. 
That could be. However I suspect that the different modes are confusing enough to new users, without not having a definite way to get back to the one you prefer.

Additionally, given that not every situation has all modes available (in particular document review), having a toggle would not let you be sure that pressing it once will get you back from screen to object. Document review may be available, when it wasn't five minutes ago, and you have to actually stop and listen to which mode you're in.

Therefore, it is just faster, along with more friendly to new users, to have a definite key sequence you can press, or over-press, to make sure you're back in object review.
By over-press, I mean that even if you hit it three times, you will definitely be in object review at the end, without having to listen to anything, or having to stop and read your braille display, or take the screen reader out of beeps mode, etc.

Just my inflation adjusted $0.0186. I wasn't there when this feature came along.

Luke