Problem with windows 11 notepad, and browsers


Abhishek Raut
 

Hello. I have 2 issues while using nvda.

First is problem with notepad, and, another is problem in browsers.

I'm Facing too much problems with windows 11 notepad.
When there is blank line at the end of file, nvda do not speak blank. instead of that, nvda speaks the  second last line.

The find box which comes by pressing ctrl+f, is also not working well. When we type something in find box and press enter, it is not working.

When we type in find box and pressed tab, There are 2 buttons. First one is search down, and, another one is search up.

If we click on any of these, the cursor do not move.

Now let’s come to the second issue.

With browsers there are lots of issues.

Mostly in forms,  nvda automatically switch to focus mode.

For example, if there is form like M C Q questions which means choosing options form, then that time nvda switch automatically to focus mode and the options which we selected before get changed to different.

This automatically switching gives huge issues in websites.

Another problem is with google search.

I am using google chrome. When I search anything in google search box, after some letters, nvda stop speaking the typed letters.

Even if we move cursor by using ctrl + arrow or arrow keys, nvda speaks nothing.

But if we press tab and shift tab, then nvda starts speaking.

Is there any solutions to resolve these issues?

Thank you

Regards,

 

Abhishek Raut.


Luke Davis
 

Abhishek Raut wrote:

I'm Facing too much problems with windows 11 notepad.When there is blank line at the end of file, nvda do not speak blank. instead of that, nvda speaks the 
second last line.
You may check if this has been reported on https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues, and if not, file a bug report.

The find box which comes by pressing ctrl+f, is also not working well. When we type something in find box and press enter, it is not working.
When we type in find box and pressed tab, There are 2 buttons. First one is search down, and, another one is search up.
If we click on any of these, the cursor do not move.
Have you tried the COM Registration repair tool in the NVDA Tools menu? Please do, it may help.

Mostly in forms,  nvda automatically switch to focus mode.
As recently discussed on this list, you can turn that off. Press NVDA+Ctrl+b (to get to browse mode settings, which may be different in your keyboard layout). Tab 6 times to "automatic focus mode for focus changes", uncheck and press enter.
Let us know if that doesn't solve your problem.

This automatically switching gives huge issues in websites.
I suggest you go to the same website above, and file a feature request, asking that switch to focus mode not be done by default. I think there are several people who will support that idea.

Another problem is with google search.
I am using google chrome. When I search anything in google search box, after some letters, nvda stop speaking the typed letters.
Even if we move cursor by using ctrl + arrow or arrow keys, nvda speaks nothing.
Recently discussed on this list. It is a problem in Chrome based browsers, Try pressing alt twice, or alt then escape.
It is already fixed in Chrome 100 I believe.

Luke


Gene
 

Regarding Notepad search, you say when you search nothing happens.  What do you do after you press enter after typing a search.  You are still in search and you must press escape to leave search and return to notepad, where you can then move around as usual.  When you do that, are you where you want to be? 


Regarding the problems with browsers, it isn't clear to me just what is happening when you talk about things changing.  What are examples of one or two things that change and how have you changed them in the first place?


Regarding your Google search problem, do what you describe before typing anything in the search field.  Be in forms mode in the search edit field, tab and shift tab and then type the search.  You will be able to type and then to move in the search field and make any corrections you want with speech. 


From what I've read on this list, what you are experiencing is a known issue with Chrome and was fixed in the current version.  Which raises the question of whether your Chrome is the current version. 


I'll write another message about how to check and update Chrome if it isn't updating automatically.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 3:06 AM, Abhishek Raut wrote:

Hello. I have 2 issues while using nvda.

First is problem with notepad, and, another is problem in browsers.

I'm Facing too much problems with windows 11 notepad.
When there is blank line at the end of file, nvda do not speak blank. instead of that, nvda speaks the  second last line.

The find box which comes by pressing ctrl+f, is also not working well. When we type something in find box and press enter, it is not working.

When we type in find box and pressed tab, There are 2 buttons. First one is search down, and, another one is search up.

If we click on any of these, the cursor do not move.

Now let’s come to the second issue.

With browsers there are lots of issues.

Mostly in forms,  nvda automatically switch to focus mode.

For example, if there is form like M C Q questions which means choosing options form, then that time nvda switch automatically to focus mode and the options which we selected before get changed to different.

This automatically switching gives huge issues in websites.

Another problem is with google search.

I am using google chrome. When I search anything in google search box, after some letters, nvda stop speaking the typed letters.

Even if we move cursor by using ctrl + arrow or arrow keys, nvda speaks nothing.

But if we press tab and shift tab, then nvda starts speaking.

Is there any solutions to resolve these issues?

Thank you

Regards,

 

Abhishek Raut.


Gene
 

To check if Chrome is up-to-date, do the following:

Open the Chrome menu with alt f.  Hold alt and while doing so, type f. 

Up arrow to help and press enter.

You are now on About Chrome.  Press enter.

Down arrow a number of times and see if you hear either Chrome is up-to-date, or a button that says something like update to version and then a version number.


Now and then, I check my browsers to make sure they are current.  I don't have a rule about this but I think it is a good idea to do this once a week.  I find that now and then, browsers don't automatically update as they are supposed to.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 5:49 AM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

Regarding Notepad search, you say when you search nothing happens.  What do you do after you press enter after typing a search.  You are still in search and you must press escape to leave search and return to notepad, where you can then move around as usual.  When you do that, are you where you want to be? 


Regarding the problems with browsers, it isn't clear to me just what is happening when you talk about things changing.  What are examples of one or two things that change and how have you changed them in the first place?


Regarding your Google search problem, do what you describe before typing anything in the search field.  Be in forms mode in the search edit field, tab and shift tab and then type the search.  You will be able to type and then to move in the search field and make any corrections you want with speech. 


From what I've read on this list, what you are experiencing is a known issue with Chrome and was fixed in the current version.  Which raises the question of whether your Chrome is the current version. 


I'll write another message about how to check and update Chrome if it isn't updating automatically.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 3:06 AM, Abhishek Raut wrote:

Hello. I have 2 issues while using nvda.

First is problem with notepad, and, another is problem in browsers.

I'm Facing too much problems with windows 11 notepad.
When there is blank line at the end of file, nvda do not speak blank. instead of that, nvda speaks the  second last line.

The find box which comes by pressing ctrl+f, is also not working well. When we type something in find box and press enter, it is not working.

When we type in find box and pressed tab, There are 2 buttons. First one is search down, and, another one is search up.

If we click on any of these, the cursor do not move.

Now let’s come to the second issue.

With browsers there are lots of issues.

Mostly in forms,  nvda automatically switch to focus mode.

For example, if there is form like M C Q questions which means choosing options form, then that time nvda switch automatically to focus mode and the options which we selected before get changed to different.

This automatically switching gives huge issues in websites.

Another problem is with google search.

I am using google chrome. When I search anything in google search box, after some letters, nvda stop speaking the typed letters.

Even if we move cursor by using ctrl + arrow or arrow keys, nvda speaks nothing.

But if we press tab and shift tab, then nvda starts speaking.

Is there any solutions to resolve these issues?

Thank you

Regards,

 

Abhishek Raut.


 

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph


Chris Smart
 

Ironic that I saw this post while listening to Jenny Lay-Flurrie speaking at Axe-Con about Microsoft’s accessibility successes. And yet, they have trouble with a text control in perhaps the simplest Windows Application?

 


Gene
 

What behavior do you, Joseph and the person asking the question, expect in a search in Notepad?  On my Windows 10 computer, in Notepad, if what you are searching for is found, it isn't announced.  NVDA says found next occurrence of text.  In earlier versions of Windows, nothing is spoken.  I can use read current line to hear what has been found but I don't bother.  If the text is found, I hear nothing.  If not, an error message comes up which is spoken. 


When working with screen-readers, using logic and inference to determine what is happening is a skill that helps you use computers well.  this may be important in working with some programs or doing things efficiently in some programs.  Literally expecting a screen-reader to do everything exactly as expected in such a complex environment is a way to get caught up in minutia when you can often know what is going on without a literally exactly correct behavior. 


When using f3 in Notepad, to repeat a search, what is searched for is announced in Windows 10.  I hear it announced, followed by selected. 


I don't recall if I hear anything in earlier versions of Windows.  But whatever the case, if using f3 finds something I know it because no error message comes up. 


Gene

On 3/15/2022 11:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph


Gene
 

Also, as a point of Interest, on my Windows 10 machine, when I do a control f search in Notepad, nothing is spoken if what is searched for is found.  NVDA says what I reported but Narrator is silent.  And Narrator's behavior is what I have experienced from Windows 95 to Windows 10.


If screen-readers announce more over time, that doesn't mean using logic and inference should be neglected.  And this should be taught as a part of training.  I haven't seen it taught nor training pointing out when and how it is being used if it is.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 12:07 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

What behavior do you, Joseph and the person asking the question, expect in a search in Notepad?  On my Windows 10 computer, in Notepad, if what you are searching for is found, it isn't announced.  NVDA says found next occurrence of text.  In earlier versions of Windows, nothing is spoken.  I can use read current line to hear what has been found but I don't bother.  If the text is found, I hear nothing.  If not, an error message comes up which is spoken. 


When working with screen-readers, using logic and inference to determine what is happening is a skill that helps you use computers well.  this may be important in working with some programs or doing things efficiently in some programs.  Literally expecting a screen-reader to do everything exactly as expected in such a complex environment is a way to get caught up in minutia when you can often know what is going on without a literally exactly correct behavior. 


When using f3 in Notepad, to repeat a search, what is searched for is announced in Windows 10.  I hear it announced, followed by selected. 


I don't recall if I hear anything in earlier versions of Windows.  But whatever the case, if using f3 finds something I know it because no error message comes up. 


Gene
On 3/15/2022 11:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph


Chris Smart
 

Joseph is talking about Notepad in Windows 11.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: March 15, 2022 1:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with windows 11 notepad, and browsers

 

What behavior do you, Joseph and the person asking the question, expect in a search in Notepad?  On my Windows 10 computer, in Notepad, if what you are searching for is found, it isn't announced.  NVDA says found next occurrence of text.  In earlier versions of Windows, nothing is spoken.  I can use read current line to hear what has been found but I don't bother.  If the text is found, I hear nothing.  If not, an error message comes up which is spoken. 

 

When working with screen-readers, using logic and inference to determine what is happening is a skill that helps you use computers well.  this may be important in working with some programs or doing things efficiently in some programs.  Literally expecting a screen-reader to do everything exactly as expected in such a complex environment is a way to get caught up in minutia when you can often know what is going on without a literally exactly correct behavior. 

 

When using f3 in Notepad, to repeat a search, what is searched for is announced in Windows 10.  I hear it announced, followed by selected. 

 

I don't recall if I hear anything in earlier versions of Windows.  But whatever the case, if using f3 finds something I know it because no error message comes up. 

 

Gene

On 3/15/2022 11:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph


Gene
 

I didn't state my last message properly.  If I do a control f search using Narrator in Notepad, nothing is spoken if what is searched for is found.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 12:13 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

Also, as a point of Interest, on my Windows 10 machine, when I do a control f search in Notepad, nothing is spoken if what is searched for is found.  NVDA says what I reported but Narrator is silent.  And Narrator's behavior is what I have experienced from Windows 95 to Windows 10.


If screen-readers announce more over time, that doesn't mean using logic and inference should be neglected.  And this should be taught as a part of training.  I haven't seen it taught nor training pointing out when and how it is being used if it is.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 12:07 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

What behavior do you, Joseph and the person asking the question, expect in a search in Notepad?  On my Windows 10 computer, in Notepad, if what you are searching for is found, it isn't announced.  NVDA says found next occurrence of text.  In earlier versions of Windows, nothing is spoken.  I can use read current line to hear what has been found but I don't bother.  If the text is found, I hear nothing.  If not, an error message comes up which is spoken. 


When working with screen-readers, using logic and inference to determine what is happening is a skill that helps you use computers well.  this may be important in working with some programs or doing things efficiently in some programs.  Literally expecting a screen-reader to do everything exactly as expected in such a complex environment is a way to get caught up in minutia when you can often know what is going on without a literally exactly correct behavior. 


When using f3 in Notepad, to repeat a search, what is searched for is announced in Windows 10.  I hear it announced, followed by selected. 


I don't recall if I hear anything in earlier versions of Windows.  But whatever the case, if using f3 finds something I know it because no error message comes up. 


Gene
On 3/15/2022 11:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph


Gene
 

I understand that.  I'm saying that even in Windows 10, the actual text is not announced and I'm saying that too literal an expectation may cause people to be dissatisfied with how a program does something and spend time trying to correct it when it is very clear, with a bit of trying different things and thought to know just what is going on.


Another important example of how to take a minimum action that dramatically increases efficiency, is doing a screen-reader search on a web page.  If you do the search and just let NVDA read when it finds a result, and JAWS does this too, you will hear all sorts of extraneous speech.   If, when you hear speech begin, you issue the read current line command, all the extraneous speech is stopped and you hear what you want to hear.  You save time,and annoyance if you do much searching. 


This is another example of using logic and inference.  Read current line reads the current line.  If you do an internet screen-reader search and hear a lot of extraneous speech, causing the current line to be read is a logical thing to try to stop it.  I have never once seen this discussed when instructional material discusses performing a screen-reader search on  a web page.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 12:14 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

Joseph is talking about Notepad in Windows 11.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: March 15, 2022 1:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with windows 11 notepad, and browsers

 

What behavior do you, Joseph and the person asking the question, expect in a search in Notepad?  On my Windows 10 computer, in Notepad, if what you are searching for is found, it isn't announced.  NVDA says found next occurrence of text.  In earlier versions of Windows, nothing is spoken.  I can use read current line to hear what has been found but I don't bother.  If the text is found, I hear nothing.  If not, an error message comes up which is spoken. 

 

When working with screen-readers, using logic and inference to determine what is happening is a skill that helps you use computers well.  this may be important in working with some programs or doing things efficiently in some programs.  Literally expecting a screen-reader to do everything exactly as expected in such a complex environment is a way to get caught up in minutia when you can often know what is going on without a literally exactly correct behavior. 

 

When using f3 in Notepad, to repeat a search, what is searched for is announced in Windows 10.  I hear it announced, followed by selected. 

 

I don't recall if I hear anything in earlier versions of Windows.  But whatever the case, if using f3 finds something I know it because no error message comes up. 

 

Gene

On 3/15/2022 11:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph


Gene
 

I take that back.  I did see it discussed once in teaching material.  I discussed it in my Internet tutorial, which is out-of-date but which discusses using read current line as I described.  It also points out numerous times where I use logic and inference when working with Internet pages.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 12:14 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

Joseph is talking about Notepad in Windows 11.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: March 15, 2022 1:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with windows 11 notepad, and browsers

 

What behavior do you, Joseph and the person asking the question, expect in a search in Notepad?  On my Windows 10 computer, in Notepad, if what you are searching for is found, it isn't announced.  NVDA says found next occurrence of text.  In earlier versions of Windows, nothing is spoken.  I can use read current line to hear what has been found but I don't bother.  If the text is found, I hear nothing.  If not, an error message comes up which is spoken. 

 

When working with screen-readers, using logic and inference to determine what is happening is a skill that helps you use computers well.  this may be important in working with some programs or doing things efficiently in some programs.  Literally expecting a screen-reader to do everything exactly as expected in such a complex environment is a way to get caught up in minutia when you can often know what is going on without a literally exactly correct behavior. 

 

When using f3 in Notepad, to repeat a search, what is searched for is announced in Windows 10.  I hear it announced, followed by selected. 

 

I don't recall if I hear anything in earlier versions of Windows.  But whatever the case, if using f3 finds something I know it because no error message comes up. 

 

Gene

On 3/15/2022 11:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph


Gene
 

I don't want there to be any misunderstanding of what I am saying.  I am not saying that the person who started the discussion shouldn't have discussed problems with how Notepad or other programs work in Windows 11 compared with how they work in Windows 10.  I am pointing out kinds of approaches I think are important when working with programs and screen-readers.  As I said, screen-readers work in complex environments.  I am not objecting to people asking about or pointing out problems.  I am saying that where there are problems, unless or until they are resolved, you may be able to efficiently work around them in the meantime.  I've been using read current line in screen-reader searches for a long time.  I don't know if the annoyance will ever be corrected but I can avoid the excess speech problem using Reade current line.


I also see, from time to time, people asking about excessive and repetitive speech when an e-mail message is opened in this or that program.  Opening the message, then when the message has opened fully, issuing the read to end command stops the behavior.  If you do this regularly, it becomes second nature.  You may want until the moment you hear a bit of speech before issuing the command or you may want to try to develop a sense of when enough time has passed that issuing the command will start reading.  You may save a bit of time that way. 


Gene

On 3/15/2022 12:32 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

I take that back.  I did see it discussed once in teaching material.  I discussed it in my Internet tutorial, which is out-of-date but which discusses using read current line as I described.  It also points out numerous times where I use logic and inference when working with Internet pages.


Gene

On 3/15/2022 12:14 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

Joseph is talking about Notepad in Windows 11.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: March 15, 2022 1:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problem with windows 11 notepad, and browsers

 

What behavior do you, Joseph and the person asking the question, expect in a search in Notepad?  On my Windows 10 computer, in Notepad, if what you are searching for is found, it isn't announced.  NVDA says found next occurrence of text.  In earlier versions of Windows, nothing is spoken.  I can use read current line to hear what has been found but I don't bother.  If the text is found, I hear nothing.  If not, an error message comes up which is spoken. 

 

When working with screen-readers, using logic and inference to determine what is happening is a skill that helps you use computers well.  this may be important in working with some programs or doing things efficiently in some programs.  Literally expecting a screen-reader to do everything exactly as expected in such a complex environment is a way to get caught up in minutia when you can often know what is going on without a literally exactly correct behavior. 

 

When using f3 in Notepad, to repeat a search, what is searched for is announced in Windows 10.  I hear it announced, followed by selected. 

 

I don't recall if I hear anything in earlier versions of Windows.  But whatever the case, if using f3 finds something I know it because no error message comes up. 

 

Gene

On 3/15/2022 11:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Regarding Notepad on Windows 11, NVDA repeating the last line entered is actually a known problem, and a brief discussion between developers indicates that this may have something to do with (once again) a possible bad UI Automation implementation from Microsoft as Narrator suffers from text announcement bug sometimes (this is one of those instances where I just throw my hands up and give up; I spent some time trying to do something to no avail).

As for find dialog in new Notepad, NVDA not announcing things when you press Enter key is the correct behavior - this can also be observed with Narrator.

Cheers,

Joseph