So it appears that the latest beta of NVDA will not work with the code factory vocalizer/eleoquinse addon.  Is this going to be true when the next released version of NVDA is available?

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 05:59 PM, Don H wrote:

Is this going to be true when the next released version of NVDA is
available?

-
Who knows?  The only person or people who do are the developers of the
Code Factory add-on, and that's where you should be asking if you want a
definitive answer.

Not that I don't think that this is a legitimate question, because it
is, but it is not NVAccess or any of the membership here that can answer
it.  The structure, and it's been the structure for years, is that NVDA
Add-Ons are completely separate entities from NVDA itself and whether or
not they get updated is up to the developers of those add-ons.

Anything related to an add-on and that includes bug reports, questions
about upcoming updates (or the lack thereof), etc., must be directed to
the developers of those add-ons via the mechanisms they require for
communication (often, but not always, GitHub).
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a
sex object. The difference is that is not */all/* she wants to be.

~ Betty Rollin

Please tell me you're kidding! If so, there went my days of using NVDA, as though a lot say ESpeak is very clear, I have a profound hearing loss, and I do mean, profound. Like, 75 percent loss in one ear, and 80 in the other. Even with my hearing aids, I cannot understand ESpeak. Even Vocalizer is somewhat difficult. That's the main reason I bought the CF version of Eloquence. Obviously, I want to be legit! That's about the only synth I'm able to understand. I know a lot hate it worth a purple and pink passion, but it's what since the very very very early 2000's I've grown used to, so now, unfortunately, it's about all I can understand.


Please devs, don't do this, if so! You'll definitely lose a user if you do, and I'd hate that.


Chris.

On 4/5/2022 5:59 PM, Don H wrote:

So it appears that the latest beta of NVDA will not work with the code factory vocalizer/eleoquinse addon. Is this going to be true when the next released version of NVDA is available?

Vocalizer and Vocalizer Expressive from Tiflotecnia are already ready to NVDA 2022.1...


Cumprimentos,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 23:10 de 05/04/2022, Christopher-Mark Gilland escreveu:

Please tell me you're kidding! If so, there went my days of using NVDA, as though a lot say ESpeak is very clear, I have a profound hearing loss, and I do mean, profound. Like, 75 percent loss in one ear, and 80 in the other. Even with my hearing aids, I cannot understand ESpeak. Even Vocalizer is somewhat difficult. That's the main reason I bought the CF version of Eloquence. Obviously, I want to be legit! That's about the only synth I'm able to understand. I know a lot hate it worth a purple and pink passion, but it's what since the very very very early 2000's I've grown used to, so now, unfortunately, it's about all I can understand.


Please devs, don't do this, if so! You'll definitely lose a user if you do, and I'd hate that.


Chris.

On 4/5/2022 5:59 PM, Don H wrote:

So it appears that the latest beta of NVDA will not work with the code factory vocalizer/eleoquinse addon. Is this going to be true when the next released version of NVDA is available?

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 3:10 PM Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...> wrote:

Please tell me you're kidding! 

- 
You could just keep the older version of NVDA for a few months at least, I’m sure they will eventually have updated versions of the add-ons for eloquence and IBM via voices.

 

Right now I’m not upgrading either, because of course the add-on compatibility will break all of my existing add-ons, such as the deck talk synthesizers that I use. I remember when NVDA 2019.3 and above came out, I had to wait at least a few months for the add-ons to be updated. So I would just keep your existing NVDA for now, so hopefully the speech synthesizer add-ons will be upgraded soon.

 

I apologize if there are any missed typos, voice dictation on the phone isn’t always accurate. Lol

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 06:19 PM, Don H wrote:

It just seems that more and more of the most recent NVDA updates
break such things as addon's

-
That perception is actual reality.

Over the last couple of years there has been some major "under the hood"
updating going on in the NVDA core code.  That's been plainly announced,
well ahead of time, along with the fact that these changes will cause
breaks in add-on compatibility if the add-on developers do not keep up.
This is not unique to NVDA and third party add-ons.

We've seen this with NVDA and JAWS over the years as major updates were
occurring in Windows, too.  I can recall (and not just for screen
readers) how many things "broke" in the early days of Windows 10 because
the various software houses essentially did nothing to prepare for that
release ahead of time and played catch up afterward.

We see it, and it's almost impossible to avoid, with web browsing and
screen readers not infrequently as new parts of web coding come into
existence, sometimes with minimal warning.

We are now in the age of everything "as a service" and that means that
something, probably Windows primarily, and its update cadence will be
driving the cadences of lots of other stuff.  But once you get into
something like NVDA and its add-ons, the major updates to NVDA will
dictate the cadence of updates to add-ons if those add-ons are still
supported.

There can be, and almost certainly will be, periods of time where NVDA
itself and its add-ons have relatively long plateau periods where major
updates and backward compatibility breaking will not be occurring.  But
that time is not now, and as far as I can see there are some add-ons
that may very well become orphans and only work up to a given NVDA
version, because their original developers have lost interest and no one
else has picked up the ball to run with it.

And as disconcerting as that may be, I'd certainly not propose that NVDA
stop its ongoing development, some of which involves backward
compatibility breaking releases, because any given add-on might become
an orphan.  NVDA's ongoing viability depends on it continuing to be
worked on as the ecosystem in which it is immersed continues to change.
To do otherwise means that NVDA will cease to exist as a viable screen
reader in the Windows sphere.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a
sex object. The difference is that is not */all/* she wants to be.

~ Betty Rollin

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 07:27 PM, Don H wrote:

I would hope that the NVDA developers do their best to not break
addon's while at the same time keep NVDA moving in the right direction.

-
That depends entirely on who created a given add-on, and why, and with
what intended audience.

What people need to understand is that it is always possible that an
add-on may be abandoned/orphaned, and particularly those whose history
is of the "it was created for my personal use and began making the
rounds" type.

And there are developers of some very popular add-ons who have never
even given a thought to a transition plan whereby the add-on would be
handed off to someone else were they to decide to want to walk away from
it.

These pieces of software are gifts to the community, but they don't
carry an obligation that the person that gifted them must remain
dedicated to that add-on until the day they die.  There are occasions,
and it's typically not for commercially produced add-ons, where an
add-on will be abandoned.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a
sex object. The difference is that is not */all/* she wants to be.

~ Betty Rollin

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 06:19 PM, Don H wrote:

It just seems that more and more of the most recent NVDA updates break such things as addon's

-
That perception is actual reality.  

Over the last couple of years there has been some major "under the hood" updating going on in the NVDA core code.  That's been plainly announced, well ahead of time, along with the fact that these changes will cause breaks in add-on compatibility if the add-on developers do not keep up.  This is not unique to NVDA and third party add-ons.

We've seen this with NVDA and JAWS over the years as major updates were occurring in Windows, too.  I can recall (and not just for screen readers) how many things "broke" in the early days of Windows 10 because the various software houses essentially did nothing to prepare for that release ahead of time and played catch up afterward.

We see it, and it's almost impossible to avoid, with web browsing and screen readers not infrequently as new parts of web coding come into existence, sometimes with minimal warning.

We are now in the age of everything "as a service" and that means that something, probably Windows primarily, and its update cadence will be driving the cadences of lots of other stuff.  But once you get into something like NVDA and its add-ons, the major updates to NVDA will dictate the cadence of updates to add-ons if those add-ons are still supported.

There can be, and almost certainly will be, periods of time where NVDA itself and its add-ons have relatively long plateau periods where major updates and backward compatibility breaking will not be occurring.  But that time is not now, and as far as I can see there are some add-ons that may very well become orphans and only work up to a given NVDA version, because their original developers have lost interest and no one else has picked up the ball to run with it.

And as disconcerting as that may be, I'd certainly not propose that NVDA stop its ongoing development, some of which involves backward compatibility breaking releases, because any given add-on might become an orphan.  NVDA's ongoing viability depends on it continuing to be worked on as the ecosystem in which it is immersed continues to change.  To do otherwise means that NVDA will cease to exist as a viable screen reader in the Windows sphere.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin

I would hope that the NVDA developers do their best to not break addon's
while at the same time keep NVDA moving in the right direction.

On 4/5/2022 5:45 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 06:19 PM, Don H wrote:

    It just seems that more and more of the most recent NVDA updates
    break such things as addon's

-
That perception is actual reality.

Over the last couple of years there has been some major "under the hood"
updating going on in the NVDA core code.  That's been plainly announced,
well ahead of time, along with the fact that these changes will cause
breaks in add-on compatibility if the add-on developers do not keep up.
This is not unique to NVDA and third party add-ons.

We've seen this with NVDA and JAWS over the years as major updates were
occurring in Windows, too.  I can recall (and not just for screen
readers) how many things "broke" in the early days of Windows 10 because
the various software houses essentially did nothing to prepare for that
release ahead of time and played catch up afterward.

We see it, and it's almost impossible to avoid, with web browsing and
screen readers not infrequently as new parts of web coding come into
existence, sometimes with minimal warning.

We are now in the age of everything "as a service" and that means that
something, probably Windows primarily, and its update cadence will be
driving the cadences of lots of other stuff.  But once you get into
something like NVDA and its add-ons, the major updates to NVDA will
dictate the cadence of updates to add-ons if those add-ons are still
supported.

There can be, and almost certainly will be, periods of time where NVDA
itself and its add-ons have relatively long plateau periods where major
updates and backward compatibility breaking will not be occurring.  But
that time is not now, and as far as I can see there are some add-ons
that may very well become orphans and only work up to a given NVDA
version, because their original developers have lost interest and no one
else has picked up the ball to run with it.

And as disconcerting as that may be, I'd certainly not propose that NVDA
stop its ongoing development, some of which involves backward
compatibility breaking releases, because any given add-on might become
an orphan.  NVDA's ongoing viability depends on it continuing to be
worked on as the ecosystem in which it is immersed continues to change.
To do otherwise means that NVDA will cease to exist as a viable screen
reader in the Windows sphere.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a
sex object. The difference is that is not */all/* she wants to be.

~ Betty Rollin

Hello!


Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

I also kind of am curious. I thought that the version from Code Factory was Sapi 5.

CodeFactory have Eloquence as SAPI5 and as a NVDA add-on, working only with NVDA, and the same for Vocalizer...



Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote

By the time it is deployed as stable, it may be working by then. I'm not ready yet to pannick, but certainly this is something worth considering.

If you are planning to buy Eloquence in SAPI5 you don't need to panic... It still work as expected...

Rui Fontes

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 07:27 PM, Don H wrote:

I would hope that the NVDA developers do their best to not break addon's while at the same time keep NVDA moving in the right direction.

-
That depends entirely on who created a given add-on, and why, and with what intended audience.

What people need to understand is that it is always possible that an add-on may be abandoned/orphaned, and particularly those whose history is of the "it was created for my personal use and began making the rounds" type.

And there are developers of some very popular add-ons who have never even given a thought to a transition plan whereby the add-on would be handed off to someone else were they to decide to want to walk away from it.  

These pieces of software are gifts to the community, but they don't carry an obligation that the person that gifted them must remain dedicated to that add-on until the day they die.  There are occasions, and it's typically not for commercially produced add-ons, where an add-on will be abandoned.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she wants to be.

    ~ Betty Rollin

Maybe another idea is to have a review of the most popular addons to see
if it would be a good idea to incorporate them into the NVDA code.

On 4/5/2022 6:33 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 07:27 PM, Don H wrote:

    I would hope that the NVDA developers do their best to not break
    addon's while at the same time keep NVDA moving in the right direction.

-
That depends entirely on who created a given add-on, and why, and with
what intended audience.

What people need to understand is that it is always possible that an
add-on may be abandoned/orphaned, and particularly those whose history
is of the "it was created for my personal use and began making the
rounds" type.

And there are developers of some very popular add-ons who have never
even given a thought to a transition plan whereby the add-on would be
handed off to someone else were they to decide to want to walk away from
it.

These pieces of software are gifts to the community, but they don't
carry an obligation that the person that gifted them must remain
dedicated to that add-on until the day they die.  There are occasions,
and it's typically not for commercially produced add-ons, where an
add-on will be abandoned.
--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a
sex object. The difference is that is not */all/* she wants to be.

~ Betty Rollin