Eloquence and Punctuation Announcement


Peter Beasley
 

I have tried all the various settings you suggested but still can’t get it to stop saying exclamation. I don’t have any problems with other punctuation marks.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: 07 April 2022 14:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark

 

Hi Peter,

 

Have you not told it in what level of punctuation to use it? For example, if you set it to only be used when punctuation is set to all, then change your punctuation to some, that will or should, eliminate it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Beasley
Sent: 10 March 2022 10:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark

 

It’s being spoken when reading a line of text or a document or e-mail.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 09 March 2022 16:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 11:10 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:

I have tried all of the options listed but still can’t stop exclamation from being spoken

-
And you have yet to give a clear explanation of exactly under what conditions it's being spoken where you don't want it.  That really makes it impossible for anyone to give good advice.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
     ~ Commenter, Evangelos, in comments for
         America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities,
        New York Times, February 8, 2022

 

 

 


Kenny Cheung
 

mine won't stop saying dot when it sees a period. It also won't stop saying colon when I check the time. I have punctuation set to some. 

Sent from Kenny’s iPhone

On Apr 23, 2022, at 11:28, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@...> wrote:



I have tried all the various settings you suggested but still can’t get it to stop saying exclamation. I don’t have any problems with other punctuation marks.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: 07 April 2022 14:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark

 

Hi Peter,

 

Have you not told it in what level of punctuation to use it? For example, if you set it to only be used when punctuation is set to all, then change your punctuation to some, that will or should, eliminate it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Beasley
Sent: 10 March 2022 10:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark

 

It’s being spoken when reading a line of text or a document or e-mail.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 09 March 2022 16:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 11:10 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:

I have tried all of the options listed but still can’t stop exclamation from being spoken

-
And you have yet to give a clear explanation of exactly under what conditions it's being spoken where you don't want it.  That really makes it impossible for anyone to give good advice.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
     ~ Commenter, Evangelos, in comments for
         America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities,
        New York Times, February 8, 2022

 

 

 


Kenny Cheung
 

following up from my last email, I’m using eloquence as my synthesizer. is their a way I can copy my speech histery and send it? If their is, where do I send it to?
Sent from Kenny’s MacBook Pro

On Apr 23, 2022, at 11:27, Peter Beasley <pjbeasley23@...> wrote:

I have tried all the various settings you suggested but still can’t get it to stop saying exclamation. I don’t have any problems with other punctuation marks.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: 07 April 2022 14:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark
 
Hi Peter,
 
Have you not told it in what level of punctuation to use it? For example, if you set it to only be used when punctuation is set to all, then change your punctuation to some, that will or should, eliminate it.
 
All the best

Steve
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Beasley
Sent: 10 March 2022 10:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark
 
It’s being spoken when reading a line of text or a document or e-mail.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: 09 March 2022 16:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Exclamation mark
 
On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 11:10 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
I have tried all of the options listed but still can’t stop exclamation from being spoken
-
And you have yet to give a clear explanation of exactly under what conditions it's being spoken where you don't want it.  That really makes it impossible for anyone to give good advice.
 
-- 
Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  
Constantly insisting on “my rights” with no consideration of “my responsibilities” isn’t “freedom” — it’s adolescence.
     ~ Commenter, Evangelos, in comments for
         America 2022: Where Everyone Has Rights and No One Has Responsibilities,
        New York Times, February 8, 2022
 
 

 


 

Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Kenny Cheung
 

thanks. so is their a way to have it not say dot every time I read something? I don't remember NVDA doing this before. Its also a fresh install. I had to reset my computer to factory settings and had to re-download everything.

On 4/23/2022 12:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


David Goldfield
 

I’m currently not able to experiment with this as I’m using the latest 2022.1 beta and the Code Factory drivers have not yet been updated to be compatible with that release. That being said I do recall the colon being read when you press insert-f12 to speak the time. You could either set the punctuation setting to none or you could go into the NVDA menu, choose Preferences and then Punctuation/Symbol Level and fine tune at what level of punctuation symbols like the colon are sent to the synthesizer.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny Cheung
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 12:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence and Punctuation Announcement

 

thanks. so is their a way to have it not say dot every time I read something? I don't remember NVDA doing this before. Its also a fresh install. I had to reset my computer to factory settings and had to re-download everything.

On 4/23/2022 12:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


 

On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 12:36 PM, Kenny Cheung wrote:
thanks. so is their a way to have it not say dot every time I read something?
-
I'm not trying to be cranky, but to educate myself here, what constitutes the conditions of "every time?"

For instance, I have never heard NVDA announce punctuation when doing a "read all."  I can't recall even hearing punctuation when going sentence by sentence or word by word (but I don't do that very often, and I certainly don't go letter by letter/character by character practically ever).

What are you having NVDA read, and how, when you're getting "dot" said when you think it shouldn't be said.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Gene
 

You don't hear much punctuation when set to some.  The easiest solution might be to set it to none.  I'm not sure why you are having the problem because I don't hear dot spoken when punctuation is  set to some, either, but you can try the none setting.  You can use the shortcut command that cycles through the choices NVDA key p.

Gene

On 4/23/2022 11:04 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed



Kenny Cheung
 

tried that and I'm still having the same issue. should I try and uninstall and reinstall NVDA? Is their a way to reset the punctuation's?

On 4/23/2022 2:54 PM, Gene wrote:

You don't hear much punctuation when set to some.  The easiest solution might be to set it to none.  I'm not sure why you are having the problem because I don't hear dot spoken when punctuation is  set to some, either, but you can try the none setting.  You can use the shortcut command that cycles through the choices NVDA key p.

Gene

On 4/23/2022 11:04 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed



 

Are you using any dictionaries and, specifically, any regular expression matching?

You could be getting a dot spoken at times you don't expect because a regex match is occurring where you don't think it will and a dot alone is being passed to the synth as a result.

The only things that get spoken are things handed to the synth to speak, and even then there's some contextual consideration, too.  I can't recall having something like 3:04 PM be read as three colon zero four (or oh four) PM, just as three oh four P M.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Sarah k Alawami
 

I’m set to  some and the colon is not spoken when checking the time.  I’m using nvda 22.x.

 

----

 

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFfP. We are also on lbry as well.

 

Stay in touch with us via our discord. This is an easier way to both contact us, and get to know your fellow listeners.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 9:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence and Punctuation Announcement

 

I’m currently not able to experiment with this as I’m using the latest 2022.1 beta and the Code Factory drivers have not yet been updated to be compatible with that release. That being said I do recall the colon being read when you press insert-f12 to speak the time. You could either set the punctuation setting to none or you could go into the NVDA menu, choose Preferences and then Punctuation/Symbol Level and fine tune at what level of punctuation symbols like the colon are sent to the synthesizer.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny Cheung
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 12:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence and Punctuation Announcement

 

thanks. so is their a way to have it not say dot every time I read something? I don't remember NVDA doing this before. Its also a fresh install. I had to reset my computer to factory settings and had to re-download everything.

On 4/23/2022 12:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Kenny Cheung
 

does it say 4 dot if theirs 4 periods in a row

On 4/23/2022 3:21 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I’m set to  some and the colon is not spoken when checking the time.  I’m using nvda 22.x.

 

----

 

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFfP. We are also on lbry as well.

 

Stay in touch with us via our discord. This is an easier way to both contact us, and get to know your fellow listeners.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 9:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence and Punctuation Announcement

 

I’m currently not able to experiment with this as I’m using the latest 2022.1 beta and the Code Factory drivers have not yet been updated to be compatible with that release. That being said I do recall the colon being read when you press insert-f12 to speak the time. You could either set the punctuation setting to none or you could go into the NVDA menu, choose Preferences and then Punctuation/Symbol Level and fine tune at what level of punctuation symbols like the colon are sent to the synthesizer.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny Cheung
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 12:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence and Punctuation Announcement

 

thanks. so is their a way to have it not say dot every time I read something? I don't remember NVDA doing this before. Its also a fresh install. I had to reset my computer to factory settings and had to re-download everything.

On 4/23/2022 12:04 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Kenny Cheung
 

nope just the default ones that come with NVDA. I have Enable backquote voice tags  check box  checked, Enable abbreviation dictionary  check box  checked, Enable phrase prediction  check box  checked, Automatic language switching (when supported)  check box  checked, Automatic dialect switching (when supported)  check box  checked, Punctuation/symbol level some, and Trust voice's language when processing characters and symbols  check box  checked. should I uncheck some of them?

On 4/23/2022 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Are you using any dictionaries and, specifically, any regular expression matching?

You could be getting a dot spoken at times you don't expect because a regex match is occurring where you don't think it will and a dot alone is being passed to the synth as a result.

The only things that get spoken are things handed to the synth to speak, and even then there's some contextual consideration, too.  I can't recall having something like 3:04 PM be read as three colon zero four (or oh four) PM, just as three oh four P M.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Gene
 

Almost all the settings you mentioned are not default settings.  The only ones that are are automatic language switching and Trust voice's language when processing characters.

I doubt changing any of the others will solve the problem but you may try if you wish.

Gene

On 4/23/2022 2:31 PM, Kenny Cheung wrote:

nope just the default ones that come with NVDA. I have Enable backquote voice tags  check box  checked, Enable abbreviation dictionary  check box  checked, Enable phrase prediction  check box  checked, Automatic language switching (when supported)  check box  checked, Automatic dialect switching (when supported)  check box  checked, Punctuation/symbol level some, and Trust voice's language when processing characters and symbols  check box  checked. should I uncheck some of them?

On 4/23/2022 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Are you using any dictionaries and, specifically, any regular expression matching?

You could be getting a dot spoken at times you don't expect because a regex match is occurring where you don't think it will and a dot alone is being passed to the synth as a result.

The only things that get spoken are things handed to the synth to speak, and even then there's some contextual consideration, too.  I can't recall having something like 3:04 PM be read as three colon zero four (or oh four) PM, just as three oh four P M.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed



Gene
 

I don't know if reinstalling might help and I don't think it should be assumed that the problem is NVDA.  It may be a synthesizer problem. 

Try another synthesizer like One Core Voices or e-speak and see if you have the same problem.

Gene

On 4/23/2022 2:04 PM, Kenny Cheung wrote:

tried that and I'm still having the same issue. should I try and uninstall and reinstall NVDA? Is their a way to reset the punctuation's?

On 4/23/2022 2:54 PM, Gene wrote:
You don't hear much punctuation when set to some.  The easiest solution might be to set it to none.  I'm not sure why you are having the problem because I don't hear dot spoken when punctuation is  set to some, either, but you can try the none setting.  You can use the shortcut command that cycles through the choices NVDA key p.

Gene

On 4/23/2022 11:04 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Kenny, et. al.,

I have split your topic into one of it's own.  I ask those who wish to respond to Kenny's issues to please do so using this topic, not the Exclamation Point topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed




Luke Davis
 

Kenny Cheung wrote:

tried that and I'm still having the same issue. should I try and uninstall and reinstall NVDA? Is their a way to reset the punctuation's?
Unless you do a full clean of NVDA's config directory in the process, this won't help.
Have you tried making a portable NVDA without including existing settings? If that has the same problem after you set it to use Eloquence, there's a good chance that re-installing NVDA won't help.

One thing I'm wondering, is if the Eloquence control panel has some sort of feature that can override how NVDA wants it to pronounce things.

I don't have it to test with, but you could go through its settings and see what you come up with.

I also don't know if every version of Eloquence has its own separate controls.

Luke


Luke Davis
 

Kenny Cheung wrote:

nope just the default ones that come with NVDA. I have Enable backquote voice tags  check box  checked, Enable abbreviation dictionary  check box  checked,
Enable phrase prediction  check box  checked, Automatic language switching (when supported)  check box  checked, Automatic dialect switching (when
supported)  check box  checked, Punctuation/symbol level some, and Trust voice's language when processing characters and symbols  check box  checked. should
I uncheck some of them?
As Gene said, the first three of those are not even NVDA options for most voices, they must be Eloquence specific.

However you might try unchecking Trust voice's language when processing characters and symbols.
I'm not sure that's relevant here, but it's among the things I'd try.

Just remember to turn it back on if it doesn't help.

Luke


Kenny Cheung
 

I’m going to make a portable one and see what happens.
Sent from Kenny’s MacBook Pro

On Apr 23, 2022, at 16:21, Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:

Kenny Cheung wrote:

nope just the default ones that come with NVDA. I have Enable backquote voice tags check box checked, Enable abbreviation dictionary check box checked,
Enable phrase prediction check box checked, Automatic language switching (when supported) check box checked, Automatic dialect switching (when
supported) check box checked, Punctuation/symbol level some, and Trust voice's language when processing characters and symbols check box checked. should
I uncheck some of them?
As Gene said, the first three of those are not even NVDA options for most voices, they must be Eloquence specific.

However you might try unchecking Trust voice's language when processing characters and symbols.
I'm not sure that's relevant here, but it's among the things I'd try.

Just remember to turn it back on if it doesn't help.

Luke





 

On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 05:35 PM, Kenny Cheung wrote:
I’m going to make a portable one and see what happens.
-
And if the portable works on the same machine where the installed version is not, then consider uninstalling, nuking all the NVDA related folders (both under Program Files and your user AppData folder), and starting all over again.  That's probably still way less trouble than looking for the needle in the haystack.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Sarah k Alawami
 

I believe there is a setting to overwrite nvda, but darned if I can remember
where. Try launching the eloquence control panel and see where you get. I
recall something about punctuation there.

----

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFfP. We are also on lbry as well.

Stay in touch with us via our discord. This is an easier way to both contact
us, and get to know your fellow listeners.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2022 1:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Eloquence and Punctuation Announcement

Kenny Cheung wrote:

tried that and I'm still having the same issue. should I try and uninstall
and reinstall NVDA? Is their a way to reset the punctuation's?

Unless you do a full clean of NVDA's config directory in the process, this
won't help.
Have you tried making a portable NVDA without including existing settings?
If that has the same problem after you set it to use Eloquence, there's a
good chance that re-installing NVDA won't help.

One thing I'm wondering, is if the Eloquence control panel has some sort of
feature that can override how NVDA wants it to pronounce things.

I don't have it to test with, but you could go through its settings and see
what you come up with.

I also don't know if every version of Eloquence has its own separate
controls.

Luke