Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App


Janet Brandly
 

To the author of the Enhanced Phonetic Reading app,

 

Please update the app to work with the latest version of NVDA. I use this app a lot. It’s very helpful. According to the notice I got when installing the latest version of NVDA it is not compatible with this app.

 

Thank you,

 

Janet.


 

There is already a development version compatible with NVDA 2022.X.

See: https://nvda-addons.org/addon.php?id=13 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill


Sarah k Alawami
 

Is that on the official list? I could not find it when I looked,  nor on the other add ons website. I might have missed it on both resources however. I love this add on as well btw.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 12:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

There is already a development version compatible with NVDA 2022.X.

See: https://nvda-addons.org/addon.php?id=13 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill


Sarah k Alawami
 

Never mind, found it. I’ll be getting this, and bookmarking the page, maybe.  We’ll see if this works with the next build of nvda that is probably out by now.

 

Happy Wednesday.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 12:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

There is already a development version compatible with NVDA 2022.X.

See: https://nvda-addons.org/addon.php?id=13 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill


 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 04:14 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
We’ll see if this works with the next build of nvda that is probably out by now.
-
It's tested to work with NVDA 2022 regardless of the dot release.  That's pretty much been the pattern in general, if something's compatible with a dot one major release it does not revert to incompatible with dot two and higher.  Now, when the next major NVDA release comes out (2023, which is a while away yet) some things will likely become incompatible until the necessary tweaks are made.  With any luck, more of that will be happening during the early betas.

This is one of the problems that can't be solved as far as add-ons go, at least not entirely.  Those who create them are sometimes going to walk away from them, and if they aren't picked up by another developer, well, . . . 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill


 

Hi,

A game changer feature was just added to NVDA - ask me privately please.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 04:28 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
A game changer feature was just added to NVDA - ask me privately please.
-
Is it in 2022.2?  If so, is it documented in the change log?

Game-changer features deserve public announcement upon their release. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill


Janet Brandly
 

Hi Joseph,

 

Please tell us more. I’d like to get this function back ASAP.

 

Janet

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: July 20, 2022 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

Hi,

A game changer feature was just added to NVDA - ask me privately please.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 05:34 PM, Janet Brandly wrote:
I’d like to get this function back ASAP.
-
Janet,

Then for the love of heaven download the compatible add-on!  Why do you think I gave a direct link to the page on which it resides in the NVDA Add-Ons Directory?!
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill


Gene
 

Before updating NVDA, I would recommend creating a portable version of the current version you are using.  Then, if the updated installed version has problems, you can use the portable version and, in a case like this, continue to use the add-on without disruption.

Gene

On 7/20/2022 4:33 PM, Janet Brandly wrote:

Hi Joseph,

 

Please tell us more. I’d like to get this function back ASAP.

 

Janet

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: July 20, 2022 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

Hi,

A game changer feature was just added to NVDA - ask me privately please.

Cheers,

Joseph



 

Hi,

All I can say at this time is that this game changing feature will be part of a future NVDA stable version (some of you should know what I'm talking about; spoiler alert: take a look at recent alpha changelog).

Cheers,

Joseph


 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 05:49 PM, Gene wrote:
Before updating NVDA, I would recommend creating a portable version of the current version you are using.
-
An excellent recommendation and general practice.  It would save quite a bit of heartache over time.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        ~ Dorothy Nevill


Gene
 

Perhaps the update function should present a screen explaining why this is important to do and giving users the opportunity to answer yes or no to having it done.  I don't think most users would think about this themselves.  My objection to updates of this kind is that they remove the previous version.  That is why, if I used JAWS to any extent, I'd probably install a completely new version and not use the update function, thus leaving the old version on the machine in case I want to use it.

Gene

On 7/20/2022 4:49 PM, Gene wrote:

Before updating NVDA, I would recommend creating a portable version of the current version you are using.  Then, if the updated installed version has problems, you can use the portable version and, in a case like this, continue to use the add-on without disruption.

Gene

On 7/20/2022 4:33 PM, Janet Brandly wrote:

Hi Joseph,

 

Please tell us more. I’d like to get this function back ASAP.

 

Janet

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: July 20, 2022 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

Hi,

A game changer feature was just added to NVDA - ask me privately please.

Cheers,

Joseph




 

Hi,

This is quite an interesting suggestion, but I doubt it can be implemented quite easily. This is more so now as tools exist to update NVDA without relying on its own update mechanism - some people are using a tool called Winget (Windows Package Manager) to update NVDA, in which case you won't be prompted to save current version as a portable copy somewhere. Same goes with the Windows Store version of NVDA where Microsoft Store takes care of updates.

As for the game changer I'm talking about, well, looks like the cat is out of the bag, so:

Later this year NVDA will include its own delayed character description functionality provided that this feature (introduced to a recent alpha build) stays in NVDA 2022.3. This continues the recent trend of add-on ideas or features becoming part of NVDA screen reader.

Cheers,

Joseph


David Goldfield
 

Joseph wrote:

>(some of you should know what I'm talking about; spoiler alert: take a look at recent alpha changelog)

 

Joseph, I have the highest respect for you because of your knowledge, your willingness to share it in abundance as well as for your many contributions to the community. I am grateful for all of these things. However, I don’t find this particular message helpful. Since the alpha builds and their changelogs are available publicly it’s frankly silly to say, “I know something big but I can’t talk about it but check the alpha builds.” This is not elementary school and we’re all adults. Please either say nothing or just state what it is that you’re talking about. There’s nothing wrong with stating that you can’t comment on it beyond what’s in the alpha builds.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 6:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

Hi,

All I can say at this time is that this game changing feature will be part of a future NVDA stable version (some of you should know what I'm talking about; spoiler alert: take a look at recent alpha changelog).

Cheers,

Joseph


David Goldfield
 

Joseph, while I don’t apologize for what I was intending to express I do sincerely apologize if my initial response came off as less than charitable.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 8:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

Joseph wrote:

>(some of you should know what I'm talking about; spoiler alert: take a look at recent alpha changelog)

 

Joseph, I have the highest respect for you because of your knowledge, your willingness to share it in abundance as well as for your many contributions to the community. I am grateful for all of these things. However, I don’t find this particular message helpful. Since the alpha builds and their changelogs are available publicly it’s frankly silly to say, “I know something big but I can’t talk about it but check the alpha builds.” This is not elementary school and we’re all adults. Please either say nothing or just state what it is that you’re talking about. There’s nothing wrong with stating that you can’t comment on it beyond what’s in the alpha builds.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 6:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

 

Hi,

All I can say at this time is that this game changing feature will be part of a future NVDA stable version (some of you should know what I'm talking about; spoiler alert: take a look at recent alpha changelog).

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

The criticism and rebuke are warranted - I apologize for making things messier, especially to Janet for not showing professionalism in my answer earlier.

While the add-on was updated on Spanish community add-ons catalog (sometimes called nvda-addons.org), a few weeks ago I did ask community add-ons people to review the latest version of Enhanced Phonetic Reading compatible with NVDA 2022.1. I did update this request, noting that this feature is now part of NVDA, but the add-on author reminded me that there are internal differences between how the add-on does things and the method employed in NVDA. Whereas the add-on uses a timer to measure how long it should delay before announcing character descriptions, NVDA uses a synthesizer command to achieve this. The biggest concern from the add-on author (not me) is speech synthesizer add-on differences - not all speech synthesizers are compatible with recent NVDA releases, or if they are compatible, they do not implement a key piece that NVDA wants to use. As part of delayed character description work, SAPI4 synthesizer code was edited to support the key piece needed to support delayed character descriptions. As NVDA uses synthesizer (more towards speech) commands, one thing you will notice is that some speech synthesizers (notably Microsoft SAPI5) will have a slightly more delay when reading characters phonetically than other speech synthesizers (tested with eSpeak NG, SAPI5, Windows OneCore, Nuance Vocalizer, all of them supporting this feature).

If things went as planned, Enhanced Phonetic Reading compatible with NVDA 2022.1 would have been in your hands by now, but the request I posted about it are awaiting review and approval from community add-ons folks at the moment. The add-on author (again not I) and NVDA folks had a lengthy debate about implementation issues surrounding this feature. I concur with the add-on author on the point about speech synthesizer add-on updates and maintenance, and these add-ons are more sensitive to compatibility breaking changes as some deal with speech internals.

Again my apologies for making things difficult.

Cheers,

Joseph


Brian's Mail list account
 

There is though in the latest alpha an incompatibility with the dev version of sound schemes. The problem for me is that all the current alphas exhibit the issue and the ones that worked have dropped off' the bottom of the list. I rather took my eye off the alphas recently due to personal commitments.
Brian

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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App


On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 04:14 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:


We’ll see if this works with the next build of nvda that is probably out
by now.
-
It's tested to work with NVDA 2022 regardless of the dot release. That's pretty much been the pattern in general, if something's compatible with a dot one major release it does not revert to incompatible with dot two and higher. Now, when the next major NVDA release comes out (2023, which is a while away yet) some things will likely become incompatible until the necessary tweaks are made. With any luck, more of that will be happening during the early betas.

This is one of the problems that can't be solved as far as add-ons go, at least not entirely. Those who create them are sometimes going to walk away from them, and if they aren't picked up by another developer, well, . . .
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


Brian's Mail list account
 

Brian, don't be too harsh. The weird way these groups have been behaving recently, often means older messages in a thread can take several house to appear in somebody's email inbox. This, I rather gather is just a fact of life in this spam ridden world we now live in. Sigh....
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App


On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 05:34 PM, Janet Brandly wrote:


I’d like to get this function back ASAP.
-
Janet,

Then for the love of heaven download the compatible add-on! Why do you think I gave a direct link to the page on which it resides in the NVDA Add-Ons Directory?!
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

~ Dorothy Nevill


Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes, though nothing has changed in this regard from 2022.1 of course.
Its different on the sound schemes add on, as the alpha snaps give an error, but do not say its incompatible.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App


Before updating NVDA, I would recommend creating a portable version of
the current version you are using. Then, if the updated installed
version has problems, you can use the portable version and, in a case
like this, continue to use the add-on without disruption.

Gene

On 7/20/2022 4:33 PM, Janet Brandly wrote:

Hi Joseph,

Please tell us more. I’d like to get this function back ASAP.

Janet

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Joseph Lee
*Sent:* July 20, 2022 2:29 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Please update Enhanced Phonetic Reading App

Hi,

A game changer feature was just added to NVDA - ask me privately please.

Cheers,

Joseph