Adobe Acrobat reader & NVDA


Jackie
 

I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index. Use it!

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Gene
 

This isn't an NVDA problem.  This is an illustration of why people need more than one program in many cases.  One program recognizes the spaces in this case and another doesn't.  In another document, the opposite may be the case, Acrobat may render it better.

My guess is that a nonstandard code is used for spaces in the document.  My guess is that it has some sort of visual appeal.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 9:33 PM, Jackie wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index. Use it!


Jackie
 

Gene, you know what? I think it is. Screenreaders routinely alter the
appearance of documents to make them more usable, (think virtual
buffer for webpages). Adobe, like it or not, (& I don't) has become 1
of the most widely used tools, used by sighted & blind alike.

QRead happens to be a paid program. It seems also to be basically
abandoned, as in when its most recent incarnation broke keeping one's
place in the document, it was never fixed. I think because of the
nearly ubiquitous use of pdf documents, it's incumbant on screen
reader vendors to do whatever they can do to make these accessible. &
clearly a way to move forward doing just that has already been
implemented. So frankly I don't buy your argument.

On 7/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This isn't an NVDA problem.  This is an illustration of why people need
more than one program in many cases.  One program recognizes the spaces
in this case and another doesn't.  In another document, the opposite may
be the case, Acrobat may render it better.

My guess is that a nonstandard code is used for spaces in the document.
My guess is that it has some sort of visual appeal.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 9:33 PM, Jackie wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using
the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index. Use
it!





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Gene
 

I don't know where you would find someone with the technical knowledge to discuss the question.  It could be that screen-readers should recognize the character being used.  It may also be that the carachter acrobat is showing to the screen-reader is not expected. Perhaps NVDA should have the ability to recognize the character included but I don't have the technical knowledge to know if it can or if that would cause other problems in other cases.

I would not assume that NVDA should solve the problem.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 10:16 PM, Jackie wrote:
Gene, you know what? I think it is. Screenreaders routinely alter the
appearance of documents to make them more usable, (think virtual
buffer for webpages). Adobe, like it or not, (& I don't) has become 1
of the most widely used tools, used by sighted & blind alike.

QRead happens to be a paid program. It seems also to be basically
abandoned, as in when its most recent incarnation broke keeping one's
place in the document, it was never fixed. I think because of the
nearly ubiquitous use of pdf documents, it's incumbant on screen
reader vendors to do whatever they can do to make these accessible. &
clearly a way to move forward doing just that has already been
implemented. So frankly I don't buy your argument.

On 7/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This isn't an NVDA problem.  This is an illustration of why people need
more than one program in many cases.  One program recognizes the spaces
in this case and another doesn't.  In another document, the opposite may
be the case, Acrobat may render it better.

My guess is that a nonstandard code is used for spaces in the document.
My guess is that it has some sort of visual appeal.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 9:33 PM, Jackie wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using
the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index. Use
it!





Jackie
 

You know what you do when you assume, so I try whenever & wherever
possible not to do so. But I do think that if screenreaders can (& do)
modify the appearance of documents or use objects to present material
to a screenreader user in correct order, etc in order to make certain
document types accessible, especially if these are very commonly used,
then pdf's certainly qualify. &, as stated previously, it's not like
it hasn't already been done.

On 7/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I don't know where you would find someone with the technical knowledge
to discuss the question.  It could be that screen-readers should
recognize the character being used.  It may also be that the carachter
acrobat is showing to the screen-reader is not expected. Perhaps NVDA
should have the ability to recognize the character included but I don't
have the technical knowledge to know if it can or if that would cause
other problems in other cases.

I would not assume that NVDA should solve the problem.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 10:16 PM, Jackie wrote:
Gene, you know what? I think it is. Screenreaders routinely alter the
appearance of documents to make them more usable, (think virtual
buffer for webpages). Adobe, like it or not, (& I don't) has become 1
of the most widely used tools, used by sighted & blind alike.

QRead happens to be a paid program. It seems also to be basically
abandoned, as in when its most recent incarnation broke keeping one's
place in the document, it was never fixed. I think because of the
nearly ubiquitous use of pdf documents, it's incumbant on screen
reader vendors to do whatever they can do to make these accessible. &
clearly a way to move forward doing just that has already been
implemented. So frankly I don't buy your argument.

On 7/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This isn't an NVDA problem.  This is an illustration of why people need
more than one program in many cases.  One program recognizes the spaces
in this case and another doesn't.  In another document, the opposite may
be the case, Acrobat may render it better.

My guess is that a nonstandard code is used for spaces in the document.
My guess is that it has some sort of visual appeal.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 9:33 PM, Jackie wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format
using
the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to
https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index.
Use
it!









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Quentin Christensen
 

My general rule of thumb with content like this (whether PDF files, word documents, web pages etc) - if you've got one like it, it could be caused by anything.  If you can find two or three public examples from different sources, then definitely create an issue on GitHub or let us know.

Also, in the case of PDF files, we've fixed a few things recently and so have Adobe, so do please try the latest version of Adobe reader with NVDA 2022.3 beta 1 which came out today.  All of the crashing issues should be gone to start with!  And having said that, do just go ahead and let me know of any ongoing crashes - I did kind of ask for that by saying that - but do restart your system and make sure you can still reproduce it first!

Also, if you CAN reproduce anything nasty like that with the beta, as always, do please create a GitHub issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 2:11 PM Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
You know what you do when you assume, so I try whenever & wherever
possible not to do so. But I do think that if screenreaders can (& do)
modify the appearance of documents or use objects to present material
to a screenreader user in correct order, etc in order to make certain
document types accessible, especially if these are very commonly used,
then pdf's certainly qualify. &, as stated previously, it's not like
it hasn't already been done.

On 7/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I don't know where you would find someone with the technical knowledge
> to discuss the question.  It could be that screen-readers should
> recognize the character being used.  It may also be that the carachter
> acrobat is showing to the screen-reader is not expected. Perhaps NVDA
> should have the ability to recognize the character included but I don't
> have the technical knowledge to know if it can or if that would cause
> other problems in other cases.
>
> I would not assume that NVDA should solve the problem.
>
> Gene
>
> On 7/28/2022 10:16 PM, Jackie wrote:
>> Gene, you know what? I think it is. Screenreaders routinely alter the
>> appearance of documents to make them more usable, (think virtual
>> buffer for webpages). Adobe, like it or not, (& I don't) has become 1
>> of the most widely used tools, used by sighted & blind alike.
>>
>> QRead happens to be a paid program. It seems also to be basically
>> abandoned, as in when its most recent incarnation broke keeping one's
>> place in the document, it was never fixed. I think because of the
>> nearly ubiquitous use of pdf documents, it's incumbant on screen
>> reader vendors to do whatever they can do to make these accessible. &
>> clearly a way to move forward doing just that has already been
>> implemented. So frankly I don't buy your argument.
>>
>> On 7/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>> This isn't an NVDA problem.  This is an illustration of why people need
>>> more than one program in many cases.  One program recognizes the spaces
>>> in this case and another doesn't.  In another document, the opposite may
>>> be the case, Acrobat may render it better.
>>>
>>> My guess is that a nonstandard code is used for spaces in the document.
>>> My guess is that it has some sort of visual appeal.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>> On 7/28/2022 9:33 PM, Jackie wrote:
>>>> I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
>>>> acrobat documents. I'm using:
>>>> adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
>>>> Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)
>>>>
>>>> I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
>>>> files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
>>>> generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
>>>> generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
>>>> anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
>>>> unacceptable.
>>>>
>>>> Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC
>>>>
>>>> Up and Running:
>>>> Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
>>>> Version6.0December 2019
>>>> Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
>>>> improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
>>>> http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
>>>> Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
>>>> FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
>>>> How to Use This Guide
>>>> REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
>>>> obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
>>>> thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
>>>> anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
>>>> isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
>>>> itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
>>>> acomprehensiveindex.Useit!
>>>>
>>>> Version 2 QRead & NVDA
>>>>
>>>> Up and Running:
>>>> A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
>>>> Version 6.0
>>>> December 2019
>>>> This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
>>>> improved and developed.
>>>> Check for updates and other information at
>>>> http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
>>>> This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format
>>>> using
>>>> the
>>>> wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
>>>> For more information about LibreOffice go to
>>>> https://www.libreoffice.org/
>>>> How to Use This Guide
>>>> REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
>>>> easy way or order to present all of the
>>>> information contained in this guide. If you need more information
>>>> about any topic than appears on any particular
>>>> page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
>>>> reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
>>>> Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index.
>>>> Use
>>>> it!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Bob Cavanaugh
 

There's a fairly easy way to figure out whether this is an NVDA
problem or an Adobe problem. Adobe Reader can convert PDFs to text
files. In most cases, those files are almost identical to what you see
in the PDF file. The exception being of course that there are no
headings, and if the PDF is an expandable tree, it will render in
Notepad as a regular document. I had a document that I think I was
going to try to convert and put spaces in once upon a time, but I
never did that, and when I opened that document to test, it displayed
properly. I vividly remember taking the time to put spaces in a text
document after converting it from PDF for a research project in
college. I'm tired tonight and probably won't have time to research
this before leaving town for the weekend tomorrow, but if I still have
this PDF, I can open it and report back probably Sunday or Monday.

On 7/28/22, Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using
the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index. Use
it!

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Jackie
 

Quentin, as usual, thanks for a very helpful reply. that sample was
actually a very small part of a public document, ie, the Reaper up and
running 6.0 user's guide, & I can find so many like it, including
government documents, that it'd make your head spin & your eyes pop.

It's getting late here, but I'll install a portable copy of the beta
tomorrow & try it out. If the problem isn't remedied, I'll happily
file a report on Github.

Bob, Adobe crashed when I tried to save this particular document as
text, but having converted many to text myself, I can't really
remember a time when it's helped.

Have a blessed day, whatever time it is in your part of the world, everyone.

On 7/28/22, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
There's a fairly easy way to figure out whether this is an NVDA
problem or an Adobe problem. Adobe Reader can convert PDFs to text
files. In most cases, those files are almost identical to what you see
in the PDF file. The exception being of course that there are no
headings, and if the PDF is an expandable tree, it will render in
Notepad as a regular document. I had a document that I think I was
going to try to convert and put spaces in once upon a time, but I
never did that, and when I opened that document to test, it displayed
properly. I vividly remember taking the time to put spaces in a text
document after converting it from PDF for a research project in
college. I'm tired tonight and probably won't have time to research
this before leaving town for the weekend tomorrow, but if I still have
this PDF, I can open it and report back probably Sunday or Monday.

On 7/28/22, Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format
using
the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index.
Use
it!

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Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message
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Quentin Christensen
 

With the Reaper user guide,


Using Adobe Reader DC 64-bit version 22.001.20169 with NVDA 2022.3beta1 on Windows 11 (64-bit) Version: 21H2 (2009), Build: 22000.795  I could read the file fine:

Here's a grab from the speech viewer:

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v   6.64
Version   6.64
July 2022
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further improved and developed.

Check for updates and other information at
link    http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using the     wonderful   LibreOffice Writer  software.



On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 3:45 PM Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
Quentin, as usual, thanks for a very helpful reply. that sample was
actually a very small part of a public document, ie, the Reaper up and
running 6.0 user's guide, & I can find so many like it, including
government documents, that it'd make your head spin & your eyes pop.

It's getting late here, but I'll install a portable copy of the beta
tomorrow & try it out. If the problem isn't remedied, I'll happily
file a report on Github.

Bob, Adobe crashed when I tried to save this particular document as
text, but having converted many to text myself, I can't really
remember a time when it's helped.

Have a blessed day, whatever time it is in your part of the world, everyone.

On 7/28/22, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
> There's a fairly easy way to figure out whether this is an NVDA
> problem or an Adobe problem. Adobe Reader can convert PDFs to text
> files. In most cases, those files are almost identical to what you see
> in the PDF file. The exception being of course that there are no
> headings, and if the PDF is an expandable tree, it will render in
> Notepad as a regular document. I had a document that I think I was
> going to try to convert and put spaces in once upon a time, but I
> never did that, and when I opened that document to test, it displayed
> properly. I vividly remember taking the time to put spaces in a text
> document after converting it from PDF for a research project in
> college. I'm tired tonight and probably won't have time to research
> this before leaving town for the weekend tomorrow, but if I still have
> this PDF, I can open it and report back probably Sunday or Monday.
>
> On 7/28/22, Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
>> I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
>> acrobat documents. I'm using:
>> adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
>> Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)
>>
>> I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
>> files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
>> generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
>> generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.
>>
>> I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
>> anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
>> unacceptable.
>>
>> Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC
>>
>> Up and Running:
>> Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
>> Version6.0December 2019
>> Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
>> improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
>> http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
>> Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
>> FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
>> How to Use This Guide
>> REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
>> obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
>> thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
>> anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
>> isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
>> itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
>> acomprehensiveindex.Useit!
>>
>> Version 2 QRead & NVDA
>>
>> Up and Running:
>> A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
>> Version 6.0
>> December 2019
>> This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
>> improved and developed.
>> Check for updates and other information at
>> http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
>> This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format
>> using
>> the
>> wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
>> For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
>> How to Use This Guide
>> REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
>> easy way or order to present all of the
>> information contained in this guide. If you need more information
>> about any topic than appears on any particular
>> page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
>> reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
>> Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index.
>> Use
>> it!
>>
>> --
>> Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message
>> to:
>> wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR
>> by
>> visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
>> & check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com &
>> www.mysitesbeenhacked.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
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--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Brian's Mail list account
 

I have found that using Microsoft Edge to render these also works better than Adobi'es own reader.
Its all daft. There are even some where the Adobe reckons its not tagged for reading order, but clearly is as Edge does not run columns together. Its as if there are several standards out there and nobody supports them all. In theory, making a document format that you cannot change should be easy even using Word. Why everyone rushes to PDF has always eluded me.

However more of a debate for the chat group, which we have had many times in many forums and nobody every seems to take any notice whatsoever.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe Acrobat reader & NVDA


This isn't an NVDA problem. This is an illustration of why people need more than one program in many cases. One program recognizes the spaces in this case and another doesn't. In another document, the opposite may be the case, Acrobat may render it better.

My guess is that a nonstandard code is used for spaces in the document. My guess is that it has some sort of visual appeal.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 9:33 PM, Jackie wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index. Use it!




Gene
 

However, if there are tables in a PDF document, Edge doesn't show them as tables and you can't use table navigation commands.

I use Edge for reading documents without tables because it opens them remarkably faster than Adobe, using Adobe accessibility rendering, if the documents are long. 

The spelling is adobe with an e at the end.  Never assume the spelling of names other than common ones like John.  It may not matter on a list composed  of blind people but when corresponding with sighted people, it makes you look less competent.

Gene

On 7/29/2022 4:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

I have found that using Microsoft Edge to render these also works better than Adobi'es own reader.
Its all daft. There are even some where the Adobe reckons its not tagged for reading order, but clearly is as Edge does not run columns together. Its as if there are several standards out there and nobody supports them all. In theory, making a document format that you cannot change should be easy even using Word. Why everyone rushes to  PDF has always eluded me.

However more of a debate for the chat group, which we have had many times in many forums and nobody every seems to  take any notice whatsoever.
Brian



Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I might have mentioned this before on this list, but I have changed my default from Adobe to Microsoft Edge Browser to read PDF documents.  Edge works very well with it.  The tool bar is at the top giving you very accessible choices for cut, copy, save, save as zoom in/out and so on. And I very seldom get a PDF document that doesn't read well with the Edge browser.

On 7/28/2022 11:16 PM, Jackie wrote:
Gene, you know what? I think it is. Screenreaders routinely alter the
appearance of documents to make them more usable, (think virtual
buffer for webpages). Adobe, like it or not, (& I don't) has become 1
of the most widely used tools, used by sighted & blind alike.

QRead happens to be a paid program. It seems also to be basically
abandoned, as in when its most recent incarnation broke keeping one's
place in the document, it was never fixed. I think because of the
nearly ubiquitous use of pdf documents, it's incumbant on screen
reader vendors to do whatever they can do to make these accessible. &
clearly a way to move forward doing just that has already been
implemented. So frankly I don't buy your argument.

On 7/28/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
This isn't an NVDA problem.  This is an illustration of why people need
more than one program in many cases.  One program recognizes the spaces
in this case and another doesn't.  In another document, the opposite may
be the case, Acrobat may render it better.

My guess is that a nonstandard code is used for spaces in the document.
My guess is that it has some sort of visual appeal.

Gene

On 7/28/2022 9:33 PM, Jackie wrote:
I have a question regarding NVDA & readability/accessibility of Adobe
acrobat documents. I'm using:
adobe Acrobat DC version 22.1.20169.0
Microsoft Windows 10 Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1826)

I also have a program called QRead on my system which opens .pdf
files. I'm going to paste 2 identical samples of a document, 1
generated via the combination of NVDA & Adobe Acrobat DC & the other
generated using QRead & NVDA, respectively.

I'd like to know why such significant differences exist, & what, if
anything, can be done, because clearly the 1st rendering is truly
unacceptable.

Version 1--Adobe Acrobat DC

Up and Running:
Up and Running:A REAPER User Guidev 6.0
Version6.0December 2019
Thisguidewillbeupdatedregularlyasthesoftwareitselfisfurther
improvedanddeveloped.Checkfor updatesandother informationat
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
Thisdocumenthasbeenproduced,compiledandrenderedtoPDFformatusingthewonderfulLibreOfficeWritersoftware.
FormoreinformationaboutLibreOfficegotohttps://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER isasophisticatedprogramandthere isnosingle
obviousoreasywayorordertopresentalloftheinformation containedin
thisguide.Ifyou needmore information aboutanytopicthan appearson
anyparticularpage,trysearching!The PDFedition
isbookmarked,andyourPDFreaderincludesaFindfeatureon
itstoolbar.Also,both the PDFandprintededitionsfeature
acomprehensiveindex.Useit!

Version 2 QRead & NVDA

Up and Running:
A REAPER User Guide v 6.0
Version 6.0
December 2019
This guide will be updated regularly as the software itself is further
improved and developed.
Check for updates and other information at
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
This document has been produced, compiled and rendered to PDF format using
the
wonderful LibreOffice Writer software.
For more information about LibreOffice go to https://www.libreoffice.org/
How to Use This Guide
REAPER is a sophisticated program and there is no single obvious or
easy way or order to present all of the
information contained in this guide. If you need more information
about any topic than appears on any particular
page, try searching! The PDF edition is bookmarked, and your PDF
reader includes a Find feature on its toolbar.
Also, both the PDF and printed editions feature a comprehensive index. Use
it!




--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I, as did Quentin, downloaded the problem PDF and it works great in Edge Browser.


On 7/29/2022 5:46 AM, Gene wrote:
However, if there are tables in a PDF document, Edge doesn't show them as tables and you can't use table navigation commands.

I use Edge for reading documents without tables because it opens them remarkably faster than Adobe, using Adobe accessibility rendering, if the documents are long. 

The spelling is adobe with an e at the end.  Never assume the spelling of names other than common ones like John.  It may not matter on a list composed  of blind people but when corresponding with sighted people, it makes you look less competent.

Gene

On 7/29/2022 4:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
I have found that using Microsoft Edge to render these also works better than Adobi'es own reader.
Its all daft. There are even some where the Adobe reckons its not tagged for reading order, but clearly is as Edge does not run columns together. Its as if there are several standards out there and nobody supports them all. In theory, making a document format that you cannot change should be easy even using Word. Why everyone rushes to  PDF has always eluded me.

However more of a debate for the chat group, which we have had many times in many forums and nobody every seems to  take any notice whatsoever.
Brian



-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Jackie
 

I hate Edge. I seriously hate edge. I guess if I have to use it I
will, but I'll cry or curse every time, likely the latter, depending
on my mood & whether kids are present.

On 7/29/22, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I, as did Quentin, downloaded the problem PDF and it works great in Edge
Browser.


On 7/29/2022 5:46 AM, Gene wrote:
However, if there are tables in a PDF document, Edge doesn't show them
as tables and you can't use table navigation commands.

I use Edge for reading documents without tables because it opens them
remarkably faster than Adobe, using Adobe accessibility rendering, if
the documents are long.

The spelling is adobe with an e at the end.  Never assume the spelling
of names other than common ones like John.  It may not matter on a
list composed  of blind people but when corresponding with sighted
people, it makes you look less competent.

Gene

On 7/29/2022 4:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
I have found that using Microsoft Edge to render these also works
better than Adobi'es own reader.
Its all daft. There are even some where the Adobe reckons its not
tagged for reading order, but clearly is as Edge does not run columns
together. Its as if there are several standards out there and nobody
supports them all. In theory, making a document format that you
cannot change should be easy even using Word. Why everyone rushes to
PDF has always eluded me.

However more of a debate for the chat group, which we have had many
times in many forums and nobody every seems to  take any notice
whatsoever.
Brian
--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct
them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to
cling to its past achievements is no virtue!





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& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


 

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 05:46 AM, Gene wrote:
Never assume the spelling of names other than common ones like John. 
-
And even that can be fraught.  There are lots of J O N Jons out there.  Jon Voight is only one of very many.

When it comes to brand names, in particular, it becomes insane.  The spelling variations in order to have "unique branding" is enough to drive anyone mad!
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Gene
 

I don't know why you hate Edge.  It is a browser and is similar to other Chrome-based browsers.  There may be specific implementations of specific features you dislike but for reading PDF files, there is no difference between using it and other Chrome-based browsers except that it works much better in reading PDFs.  I would recommend you try it before prejudging it for this purpose.

I don't care which browser you like or use for general browsing but whatever you dislike about Edge doesn't apply in reading PDF files.

You can open PDF files in Edge in two ways.
Be on the file and use open with do do so.  Or when in Edge, use the command control o to open the open file dialog.
Then use it as you would any standard open dialog to open the file.

Gene

On 7/29/2022 10:25 AM, Jackie wrote:
I hate Edge. I seriously hate edge. I guess if I have to use it I
will, but I'll cry or curse every time, likely the latter, depending
on my mood & whether kids are present.

On 7/29/22, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I, as did Quentin, downloaded the problem PDF and it works great in Edge
Browser.


On 7/29/2022 5:46 AM, Gene wrote:
However, if there are tables in a PDF document, Edge doesn't show them
as tables and you can't use table navigation commands.

I use Edge for reading documents without tables because it opens them
remarkably faster than Adobe, using Adobe accessibility rendering, if
the documents are long.

The spelling is adobe with an e at the end.  Never assume the spelling
of names other than common ones like John.  It may not matter on a
list composed  of blind people but when corresponding with sighted
people, it makes you look less competent.

Gene

On 7/29/2022 4:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
I have found that using Microsoft Edge to render these also works
better than Adobi'es own reader.
Its all daft. There are even some where the Adobe reckons its not
tagged for reading order, but clearly is as Edge does not run columns
together. Its as if there are several standards out there and nobody
supports them all. In theory, making a document format that you
cannot change should be easy even using Word. Why everyone rushes to
PDF has always eluded me.

However more of a debate for the chat group, which we have had many
times in many forums and nobody every seems to  take any notice
whatsoever.
Brian
--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct
them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to
cling to its past achievements is no virtue!






 

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 11:25 AM, Jackie wrote:
I seriously hate edge.
-
Do you hate Chrome as well?  That's a serious question.

I find that the similarities between all of the Chromium based browsers are far, far, greater than their differences.  And Chrome seems (and based on numbers of users, actually is) beloved by a massive number of people.  I love it as far as how it works, but refuse to use it because I have other options that are quite similar and where the use of same is not a data mining bonanza for Google.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


jamie coady
 

I don’t like edge either. I use crome only. I don’t know why they got rid of explorer to bring edge out. Yes explorer had its falts but I am sure they could have just worked on it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Jackie
Sent: 29 July 2022 16:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe Acrobat reader & NVDA

 

I hate Edge. I seriously hate edge. I guess if I have to use it I

will, but I'll cry or curse every time, likely the latter, depending

on my mood & whether kids are present.

 

On 7/29/22, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

> Hi Group,

> I, as did Quentin, downloaded the problem PDF and it works great in Edge

> Browser.

> On 7/29/2022 5:46 AM, Gene wrote:

>> However, if there are tables in a PDF document, Edge doesn't show them

>> as tables and you can't use table navigation commands.

>> 

>> I use Edge for reading documents without tables because it opens them

>> remarkably faster than Adobe, using Adobe accessibility rendering, if

>> the documents are long.

>> 

>> The spelling is adobe with an e at the end.  Never assume the spelling

>> of names other than common ones like John.  It may not matter on a

>> list composed  of blind people but when corresponding with sighted

>> people, it makes you look less competent.

>> 

>> Gene

>> 

>> On 7/29/2022 4:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

>>> I have found that using Microsoft Edge to render these also works

>>> better than Adobi'es own reader.

>>> Its all daft. There are even some where the Adobe reckons its not

>>> tagged for reading order, but clearly is as Edge does not run columns

>>> together. Its as if there are several standards out there and nobody

>>> supports them all. In theory, making a document format that you

>>> cannot change should be easy even using Word. Why everyone rushes to

>>> PDF has always eluded me.

>>> 

>>> However more of a debate for the chat group, which we have had many

>>> times in many forums and nobody every seems to  take any notice

>>> whatsoever.

>>> Brian

>>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Signature:

> For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct

> them for the betterment of all is no vice;

> For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to

> cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

>

 

 

--

Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:

wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by

visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs

& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com

 

 

 

 

 


Jackie
 

Actually Brian V, I do hate Chrome. I use it on those rare occasions
when firefox doesn't render a site well, but for the most part, I've
found its accessibility at least somewhat less, especially in form
fields, than Firefox, & forget about any semblance of privacy w/either
Chrome or Edge, at least not w/o doing headstands & handsprings.

On 7/29/22, jamie coady <jamiecoady1979@...> wrote:
I don’t like edge either. I use crome only. I don’t know why they got rid of
explorer to bring edge out. Yes explorer had its falts but I am sure they
could have just worked on it.



Sent from Mail for Windows



From: Jackie
Sent: 29 July 2022 16:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Adobe Acrobat reader & NVDA



I hate Edge. I seriously hate edge. I guess if I have to use it I

will, but I'll cry or curse every time, likely the latter, depending

on my mood & whether kids are present.



On 7/29/22, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Hi Group,
I, as did Quentin, downloaded the problem PDF and it works great in Edge
Browser.
On 7/29/2022 5:46 AM, Gene wrote:
However, if there are tables in a PDF document, Edge doesn't show them
as tables and you can't use table navigation commands.
I use Edge for reading documents without tables because it opens them
remarkably faster than Adobe, using Adobe accessibility rendering, if
the documents are long.
The spelling is adobe with an e at the end.  Never assume the spelling
of names other than common ones like John.  It may not matter on a
list composed  of blind people but when corresponding with sighted
people, it makes you look less competent.
Gene
On 7/29/2022 4:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
I have found that using Microsoft Edge to render these also works
better than Adobi'es own reader.
Its all daft. There are even some where the Adobe reckons its not
tagged for reading order, but clearly is as Edge does not run columns
together. Its as if there are several standards out there and nobody
supports them all. In theory, making a document format that you
cannot change should be easy even using Word. Why everyone rushes to
PDF has always eluded me.
However more of a debate for the chat group, which we have had many
times in many forums and nobody every seems to  take any notice
whatsoever.
Brian
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correct
them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and
to
cling to its past achievements is no virtue!




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Jackie,

I can't say that I hate Chromium-based browsers, but the two that are my daily drivers are Vivaldi and Brave.  Both are privacy focused by design and also have built-in ad-blocking and other security features.  While those can sometimes prove problematic (whether you're using a screen reader or not) with some sites, I just punt to an "unprotected browser" (usually Edge or my semi-protected Firefox) when the occasion dictates.

I touch Chrome almost never and do use Edge Dev Channel somewhat consistently.  Doing what I do I have to keep a finger on the pulse of Edge, since that's what most people who don't download alternatives and need a web browser are now using, just like they did with IE way back when.  It's the default under Windows for the "less technologically sophisticated."
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Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

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