Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1


 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 04:08 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
There really is no way to find out because of our NDAs we are often under.
-
That would depend on the duration of the NDA, and for testing it should not be perpetual.

There are all sorts of retrospective research, where data is collected about what people were doing, saying, thinking, etc., after it's done.  I imagine retrospective study of how many screen-reader users (which would probably be the metric) are beta testers could be done.

But someone has to want that data before it will ever be collected.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Sarah k Alawami
 

There really is no way to find out because of our NDAs we are often under. It would be interesting however to know.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 12:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1

 

Thank you.  It would be interesting to know how many blind people are beta testers of various programs. 

Gene

On 10/29/2022 2:40 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 12:56 PM, Gene wrote:

I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive. 

-
You are correct.  I really thought I had expanded the bottom-quoted part of that message and thought it was in response to one of mine.  I always try to check this before posting, as that's how I figure out whether to respond at all in many cases.

I must not have had my second cup of coffee yet and got careless.  My apologies.  (I still stand by what I stated earlier, but it should not have been directed at you.)
--

Brian - Virginia, USA  - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014

 


Gene
 

Thank you.  It would be interesting to know how many blind people are beta testers of various programs. 

Gene

On 10/29/2022 2:40 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 12:56 PM, Gene wrote:
I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive. 
-
You are correct.  I really thought I had expanded the bottom-quoted part of that message and thought it was in response to one of mine.  I always try to check this before posting, as that's how I figure out whether to respond at all in many cases.

I must not have had my second cup of coffee yet and got careless.  My apologies.  (I still stand by what I stated earlier, but it should not have been directed at you.)
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014



 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 12:56 PM, Gene wrote:
I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive. 
-
You are correct.  I really thought I had expanded the bottom-quoted part of that message and thought it was in response to one of mine.  I always try to check this before posting, as that's how I figure out whether to respond at all in many cases.

I must not have had my second cup of coffee yet and got careless.  My apologies.  (I still stand by what I stated earlier, but it should not have been directed at you.)
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Gene
 

Its very interesting.  I just checked using the latest version, on which I didn't install any version of the Mozilla Apps Enhancement and the status line wasn't read.  I then tried a portable version that is a few versions behind with an older version of the apps enhancement on it and the status line was read.  Perhaps something has changed, not intentionally, in the program that allows the old add-on to cause the status line to be read whereas it didn't before.

Gene

On 10/29/2022 12:45 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

I wonder what others will report. 

Gene

On 10/29/2022 12:40 PM, Roger Stewart wrote:
I must be missing something here. I'm seeing all these messages saying the status bar problem has been fixed but I haven't been able to use it for quite a while now.I just updated to 102.4.1 and I still can't find status bar with NVDA at all.  The progress beeps did come back very quickly but for me, the status bar just isn't there. I checked in the view menu and status bar is checked so if it were there, NVDA should be able to see it but it isn't.  I'm using latest stable version of NVDA and Win 10 with latest updates installed. 

Roger








On 10/29/2022 11:56 AM, Gene wrote:
I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive. 

If developers are unresponsive, it would probably be a waste of time, but in cases where companies repeatedly release new versions of software with serious accessibility problems, then solve them once they are pointed out, I wonder if there are blind people beta testing or testing earlier releases so the company might address the problems before release.

Gene
On 10/29/2022 11:18 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM, Gene wrote:
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.
-
So what?

What I brought up applies to Thunderbird or any other piece of software.   Accessibility testing is best accomplished in real-world conditions, so getting blind beta testers out there who are casual users, not people who test for money, and way more of them would be a very good thing indeed.  And that involves just taking it upon yourself to grab betas of things you use, use 'em, and report issues, regardless of product.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014






Gene
 

I wonder what others will report. 

Gene

On 10/29/2022 12:40 PM, Roger Stewart wrote:

I must be missing something here. I'm seeing all these messages saying the status bar problem has been fixed but I haven't been able to use it for quite a while now.I just updated to 102.4.1 and I still can't find status bar with NVDA at all.  The progress beeps did come back very quickly but for me, the status bar just isn't there. I checked in the view menu and status bar is checked so if it were there, NVDA should be able to see it but it isn't.  I'm using latest stable version of NVDA and Win 10 with latest updates installed. 

Roger








On 10/29/2022 11:56 AM, Gene wrote:
I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive. 

If developers are unresponsive, it would probably be a waste of time, but in cases where companies repeatedly release new versions of software with serious accessibility problems, then solve them once they are pointed out, I wonder if there are blind people beta testing or testing earlier releases so the company might address the problems before release.

Gene
On 10/29/2022 11:18 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM, Gene wrote:
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.
-
So what?

What I brought up applies to Thunderbird or any other piece of software.   Accessibility testing is best accomplished in real-world conditions, so getting blind beta testers out there who are casual users, not people who test for money, and way more of them would be a very good thing indeed.  And that involves just taking it upon yourself to grab betas of things you use, use 'em, and report issues, regardless of product.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014





Roger Stewart
 

I must be missing something here. I'm seeing all these messages saying the status bar problem has been fixed but I haven't been able to use it for quite a while now.I just updated to 102.4.1 and I still can't find status bar with NVDA at all.  The progress beeps did come back very quickly but for me, the status bar just isn't there. I checked in the view menu and status bar is checked so if it were there, NVDA should be able to see it but it isn't.  I'm using latest stable version of NVDA and Win 10 with latest updates installed. 

Roger








On 10/29/2022 11:56 AM, Gene wrote:

I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive. 

If developers are unresponsive, it would probably be a waste of time, but in cases where companies repeatedly release new versions of software with serious accessibility problems, then solve them once they are pointed out, I wonder if there are blind people beta testing or testing earlier releases so the company might address the problems before release.

Gene
On 10/29/2022 11:18 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM, Gene wrote:
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.
-
So what?

What I brought up applies to Thunderbird or any other piece of software.   Accessibility testing is best accomplished in real-world conditions, so getting blind beta testers out there who are casual users, not people who test for money, and way more of them would be a very good thing indeed.  And that involves just taking it upon yourself to grab betas of things you use, use 'em, and report issues, regardless of product.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014




Gene
 

I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive. 

If developers are unresponsive, it would probably be a waste of time, but in cases where companies repeatedly release new versions of software with serious accessibility problems, then solve them once they are pointed out, I wonder if there are blind people beta testing or testing earlier releases so the company might address the problems before release.

Gene
On 10/29/2022 11:18 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM, Gene wrote:
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.
-
So what?

What I brought up applies to Thunderbird or any other piece of software.   Accessibility testing is best accomplished in real-world conditions, so getting blind beta testers out there who are casual users, not people who test for money, and way more of them would be a very good thing indeed.  And that involves just taking it upon yourself to grab betas of things you use, use 'em, and report issues, regardless of product.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014



 

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM, Gene wrote:
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.
-
So what?

What I brought up applies to Thunderbird or any other piece of software.   Accessibility testing is best accomplished in real-world conditions, so getting blind beta testers out there who are casual users, not people who test for money, and way more of them would be a very good thing indeed.  And that involves just taking it upon yourself to grab betas of things you use, use 'em, and report issues, regardless of product.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Sarah k Alawami
 

Since most of us are under NDAs you probably won’t get an answer, I often don’t say that I’m beta testing this or that as I get hounded with requests, so I make my own NDAs when I’m testing. Only after the fact once I’m out of the team or when things have quieted do I say something, then I add, do not ask me question, do not come to me for help, do not report bugs to me.

Anyway, I’m gone.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 8:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1

 

But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.  When a production version came out with the status line problem it was quickly discovered and discussed here.  It has been fixed a reasonable time after the discussion so developers have shown themselves to be responsive.
The incident raises the question of how many blind people are beta testers or earlier release testers.

While I don't think serious accessibility problems will be introduced into Thunderbird, having some blind people beta testing or earlier release testing would catch such problems before production releases.

Gene

On 10/29/2022 10:18 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Often it does not matter how many blind people test, it matters however if developers are receptive to change, which sadly, most are still not.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 7:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1

 

Here is an update of an old thread.  In recent updates of Thunderbird, the status line is again read without using the add-on to correct the problem.  This is a point of interest because it demonstrates that whomever is responsible for correcting accessibility problems in Thunderbird corrected it.

I wonder how many blind people test the newest releases or betas of Thunderbird to alert the developers to problems before versions are released with problems?

Gene

 


Gene
 

But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.  When a production version came out with the status line problem it was quickly discovered and discussed here.  It has been fixed a reasonable time after the discussion so developers have shown themselves to be responsive.
The incident raises the question of how many blind people are beta testers or earlier release testers.

While I don't think serious accessibility problems will be introduced into Thunderbird, having some blind people beta testing or earlier release testing would catch such problems before production releases.

Gene

On 10/29/2022 10:18 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Often it does not matter how many blind people test, it matters however if developers are receptive to change, which sadly, most are still not.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 7:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1

 

Here is an update of an old thread.  In recent updates of Thunderbird, the status line is again read without using the add-on to correct the problem.  This is a point of interest because it demonstrates that whomever is responsible for correcting accessibility problems in Thunderbird corrected it.

I wonder how many blind people test the newest releases or betas of Thunderbird to alert the developers to problems before versions are released with problems?

Gene



 
Edited

On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:18 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Often it does not matter how many blind people test, it matters however if developers are receptive to change, which sadly, most are still not.
-
I absolutely cannot argue with this.  But the flip side is that there are organizations, and Mozilla is one of them, that have shown a dedication to accessibility for a very long time and who do try to remedy issues when those are identified.

Gene has a good point as well.  Any screen reader user who believes that any software maker, including the large ones, has a massive cadre of blind testers combing through upcoming software during the beta stages for potential issues is deluding themselves.  Some of the largest ones have some in-house accessibility testing, most of the rest farm this out under contract to small businesses who do it.  In any case, it's very easy for testers to miss something, particularly regressions, because complex pieces of software do not have each and every function retested at each release.  Beta releases are put out there for a reason, and not just related to accessibility.  Real end users in real world situations often encounter things that simply end up being missed by both automated and human-controlled testing.  Every combination and permutation of doing thing X or Y will not be a part of formal testing.  If you end up running into an issue, reporting it is what gets it fixed (at least at some point, if not nearly immediately).

I've emphasized, many times, that beta releases are not out there primarily to give users a "sneak peek" of what's coming up.  They're out there so that the part of the user community that's so inclined can be a part of testing under real world conditions.  Part of using a beta is an implied obligation on the part of the user to report errors they encounter while using it.  If you don't hit any, then that's great, but if you do, you should promptly report them.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Sarah k Alawami
 

Often it does not matter how many blind people test, it matters however if developers are receptive to change, which sadly, most are still not.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 7:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1

 

Here is an update of an old thread.  In recent updates of Thunderbird, the status line is again read without using the add-on to correct the problem.  This is a point of interest because it demonstrates that whomever is responsible for correcting accessibility problems in Thunderbird corrected it.

I wonder how many blind people test the newest releases or betas of Thunderbird to alert the developers to problems before versions are released with problems?

Gene


Gene
 

Here is an update of an old thread.  In recent updates of Thunderbird, the status line is again read without using the add-on to correct the problem.  This is a point of interest because it demonstrates that whomever is responsible for correcting accessibility problems in Thunderbird corrected it.

I wonder how many blind people test the newest releases or betas of Thunderbird to alert the developers to problems before versions are released with problems?

Gene


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi There,

Mozilla apps enhancement 1.17 fixes this issue.


On 10/10/2022 2:28 AM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:

Hello all,

Maybe this should be addressed to the NVDA development mailing list as well, but for now I'll post it just here.

There was a reply to the bug that I've reported about the status bar reading by NVDA in Thunderbird 102. In it they ask me to inform the NVDA developers about the things written in comment #7 in the same bug report. So, here is what is written in that comment and after that I'll give a link to that bug report:

Looking through the patch, I can't see any change to the status bar that would obviously cause a problem.

This works fine with Orca, and bug 1777184 improved the situation on Orca. So it does seem NVDA specific and would likely require some insight from their end. It is not clear to me what counts as the "status bar" on NVDA. On Orca it seems that role="status" is sufficient, but NVDA might be more restrictive and the introduction of the spaces toolbar (https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/58db526a877f6be23f1d2028375d041ac76f97bc) and the reduction of the status area (bug 1777184) somehow break the conditions. Or it could be that there is some other element with the same "status" role that is empty but takes higher priority.

Link to the bug report in Bugzilla: 1777805 - Status bar reading with NVDA fails if "Spaces Toolbar" is shown (mozilla.org).

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 7.8.2022 г. в 17:28, Kostadin Kolev написа:

Hello all,

Just to let you know, that I'm experiencing the same issue in Thunderbird 102.1.1. The problem was only partially present in Thunderbird 102.1.0 and older, but not in version 91 - there the status bar was readable with NVDA with no problems.

When I noticed it occurring in v102.0.0, I filed a report against it here: 1777805 - Status bar reading with NVDA fails if "Spaces Toolbar" is shown (mozilla.org).

I also noticed and reported another bug, related to the "Spaces" toolbar and navigation with F6, which may be related to the status bar reading, but I'm not sure. Here is that other bug report: 1777804 - Keyboard navigation with F6 and Shift+F6 gets stuck with pref `mail.tabs.autoHide=true` and `Spaces Toolbar` hidden (mozilla.org).

In v102.0.0, I also noticed a bug with activation of the link in the headers panel for an RSS news. This was fixed in v102.1.1, but then the status bar reading with NVDA got broken. Coincidence (?) - I don't know. Here is that bug report: 1777802 - RSS feed URL link in the headers panel cannot be activated via the keyboard (mozilla.org).

I'll report the issue with the status bar reading with NVDA from v102.1.1 in this report: 1777805 - Status bar reading with NVDA fails if "Spaces Toolbar" is shown (mozilla.org). Feel free to do the same, to attract the attention of the Mozilla developers to this regression. Hopefully it will get fixed soon.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 7.8.2022 г. в 17:07, Gene написа:
You can copy the profile folder to a location outside of the program, then uninstall the version you are running and install the one you want.  If you delete the profile folder in the new copy, and paste the profile you saved to the same location, you will have all your messages, the address book, and I would imagine anything else, such as add-ons, though I don't know about add-ons and other items.

Those who know more about this may comment further.  I'm not sure where the profile is in the installed version.

But if you are talking about saving all your messages and transferring them using a different method, and manually exporting and importing the address book, placing the profile in a new copy of the program eliminates the need for all that work.

I'll add that those were my results, playing with the portable version.  I expect them to be the same if you are copying the profile in an installed version or from an installed version to a portable version.  I haven't verified that. 

You may want to manually save what you want to save, then try the copy profile method so that in case it doesn't work as I expect, you won't have lost anything.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:56 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

Of course I have been doing this for years now.  BTW, with Mozilla products, to close windows of any kind, control + W also works. It never fails.

I do have an old Thunderbird 102.0 executable version on my old computer. I always download the current release version a few days after I am updated within a program of any kind including Thunderbird.  I am going to save all my mail and then do a total uninstall and reinstall of 102.0 and immediately block any further updates under settings. I will keep things that way until further notice. Maybe, I'll even take your advice and run any future full releases as a portable version first before doing a full install--a kind of shake down cruise.


On 8/7/2022 9:11 AM, Gene wrote:
Here is a correction.  Close the about dialog with either escape or alt f4.  I thought the dialog opened in a new tab but it is somehow a dialog even though it presents itself as a web page.  It closes in the usual way about dialogs close.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:
It may be that if you have version 91.x and earlier, you won't update directly to 102.x.  The program may  first update you to an earlier version and from that earlier version the next update may be to 102.exe.  But if you have a recent enough version, you will get an update to 102.exe.

I updated last night.  The version I got last night is 102.1.1.

the page is not worded correctly, whatever is meant. 

In addition, open the about dialog, alt h, a.
Then switch to browse mode so you can move around the page like a web page, which it actually is, NVDA key space.
Move to the top of the page, then start down arrowing.  You will see the version number you are using and a little below that you will see that you are on the main release channel.  The program's own about dialog is telling you what the situation is.

Closed the about dialog with control f4, not alt f4.
Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

Well that seems to be true--unless you look at the What's new link.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/102.1.1/releasenotes/
Here's what it says:
Thunderbird version 102.1.1 is only offered as direct download from thunderbird.not as an upgrade from Thunderbird version 91 or earlier.
...and even more confusing:
Version 102.1.1, first offered to channel users on August 8, 2022  (which is actually tomorrow.)

I downloaded the 102.0 from within Thunderbird a few weeks ago. Just yesterday, the program auto updated from 102.1.0 to 102.1.1.  This is when I first noticed the status bar issue.

So explain that Gene! It's liked the twilight zone.


On 8/7/2022 4:21 AM, Gene wrote:
I am using the portable version and, though I doubt it, perhaps that accounts for the difference. 

Whatever the case, in a later message, you said that the version you are using isn't available on the download page you were working with.  I don't know where you were looking.  If I look on this page:
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
I see links to download Thunderbird.
Here is the first download link and you will see that it gives the 102.x. version number.
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-102.1.1-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

On the page I linked to above, not the download link, you will also see a get the beta link.has a get the beta link.  If you follow that, the link to download the beta, the first link offered gives a higher verssion number as below:
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-104.0b2-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

I used the copy  link feature of Firefox when I was on the download links.  I am presenting the written out underlying links, not the English wording you see if you just look at the page.

I don't know where you are looking but the page I just gave the link to has correct version availability.

In short, you are using the latest nonbeta version.

Gene
On 8/6/2022 10:48 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

I can tell you this.  When I use the NVDA keystroke to read the whole screen for desktops insert + B, (useful in dialogues and other things that sometimes don't automatically read) if you listen to all the verbiage, finally at the very end, the status bar is read.  This means that it is still being displayed in some form.


On 8/6/2022 10:52 PM, Gene wrote:
The status bar was not present in the previous version on my machine and it still isn't.

I'm going to check to see if there is even supposed to be a status bar any longer.  We don't know if it has been removed.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.



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For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


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Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


 

Hello all,

Maybe this should be addressed to the NVDA development mailing list as well, but for now I'll post it just here.

There was a reply to the bug that I've reported about the status bar reading by NVDA in Thunderbird 102. In it they ask me to inform the NVDA developers about the things written in comment #7 in the same bug report. So, here is what is written in that comment and after that I'll give a link to that bug report:

Looking through the patch, I can't see any change to the status bar that would obviously cause a problem.

This works fine with Orca, and bug 1777184 improved the situation on Orca. So it does seem NVDA specific and would likely require some insight from their end. It is not clear to me what counts as the "status bar" on NVDA. On Orca it seems that role="status" is sufficient, but NVDA might be more restrictive and the introduction of the spaces toolbar (https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/58db526a877f6be23f1d2028375d041ac76f97bc) and the reduction of the status area (bug 1777184) somehow break the conditions. Or it could be that there is some other element with the same "status" role that is empty but takes higher priority.

Link to the bug report in Bugzilla: 1777805 - Status bar reading with NVDA fails if "Spaces Toolbar" is shown (mozilla.org).

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 7.8.2022 г. в 17:28, Kostadin Kolev написа:

Hello all,

Just to let you know, that I'm experiencing the same issue in Thunderbird 102.1.1. The problem was only partially present in Thunderbird 102.1.0 and older, but not in version 91 - there the status bar was readable with NVDA with no problems.

When I noticed it occurring in v102.0.0, I filed a report against it here: 1777805 - Status bar reading with NVDA fails if "Spaces Toolbar" is shown (mozilla.org).

I also noticed and reported another bug, related to the "Spaces" toolbar and navigation with F6, which may be related to the status bar reading, but I'm not sure. Here is that other bug report: 1777804 - Keyboard navigation with F6 and Shift+F6 gets stuck with pref `mail.tabs.autoHide=true` and `Spaces Toolbar` hidden (mozilla.org).

In v102.0.0, I also noticed a bug with activation of the link in the headers panel for an RSS news. This was fixed in v102.1.1, but then the status bar reading with NVDA got broken. Coincidence (?) - I don't know. Here is that bug report: 1777802 - RSS feed URL link in the headers panel cannot be activated via the keyboard (mozilla.org).

I'll report the issue with the status bar reading with NVDA from v102.1.1 in this report: 1777805 - Status bar reading with NVDA fails if "Spaces Toolbar" is shown (mozilla.org). Feel free to do the same, to attract the attention of the Mozilla developers to this regression. Hopefully it will get fixed soon.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 7.8.2022 г. в 17:07, Gene написа:
You can copy the profile folder to a location outside of the program, then uninstall the version you are running and install the one you want.  If you delete the profile folder in the new copy, and paste the profile you saved to the same location, you will have all your messages, the address book, and I would imagine anything else, such as add-ons, though I don't know about add-ons and other items.

Those who know more about this may comment further.  I'm not sure where the profile is in the installed version.

But if you are talking about saving all your messages and transferring them using a different method, and manually exporting and importing the address book, placing the profile in a new copy of the program eliminates the need for all that work.

I'll add that those were my results, playing with the portable version.  I expect them to be the same if you are copying the profile in an installed version or from an installed version to a portable version.  I haven't verified that. 

You may want to manually save what you want to save, then try the copy profile method so that in case it doesn't work as I expect, you won't have lost anything.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:56 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

Of course I have been doing this for years now.  BTW, with Mozilla products, to close windows of any kind, control + W also works. It never fails.

I do have an old Thunderbird 102.0 executable version on my old computer. I always download the current release version a few days after I am updated within a program of any kind including Thunderbird.  I am going to save all my mail and then do a total uninstall and reinstall of 102.0 and immediately block any further updates under settings. I will keep things that way until further notice. Maybe, I'll even take your advice and run any future full releases as a portable version first before doing a full install--a kind of shake down cruise.


On 8/7/2022 9:11 AM, Gene wrote:
Here is a correction.  Close the about dialog with either escape or alt f4.  I thought the dialog opened in a new tab but it is somehow a dialog even though it presents itself as a web page.  It closes in the usual way about dialogs close.

Gene

On 8/7/2022 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:
It may be that if you have version 91.x and earlier, you won't update directly to 102.x.  The program may  first update you to an earlier version and from that earlier version the next update may be to 102.exe.  But if you have a recent enough version, you will get an update to 102.exe.

I updated last night.  The version I got last night is 102.1.1.

the page is not worded correctly, whatever is meant. 

In addition, open the about dialog, alt h, a.
Then switch to browse mode so you can move around the page like a web page, which it actually is, NVDA key space.
Move to the top of the page, then start down arrowing.  You will see the version number you are using and a little below that you will see that you are on the main release channel.  The program's own about dialog is telling you what the situation is.

Closed the about dialog with control f4, not alt f4.
Gene

On 8/7/2022 7:19 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

Well that seems to be true--unless you look at the What's new link.
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/102.1.1/releasenotes/
Here's what it says:
Thunderbird version 102.1.1 is only offered as direct download from thunderbird.not as an upgrade from Thunderbird version 91 or earlier.
...and even more confusing:
Version 102.1.1, first offered to channel users on August 8, 2022  (which is actually tomorrow.)

I downloaded the 102.0 from within Thunderbird a few weeks ago. Just yesterday, the program auto updated from 102.1.0 to 102.1.1.  This is when I first noticed the status bar issue.

So explain that Gene! It's liked the twilight zone.


On 8/7/2022 4:21 AM, Gene wrote:
I am using the portable version and, though I doubt it, perhaps that accounts for the difference. 

Whatever the case, in a later message, you said that the version you are using isn't available on the download page you were working with.  I don't know where you were looking.  If I look on this page:
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
I see links to download Thunderbird.
Here is the first download link and you will see that it gives the 102.x. version number.
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-102.1.1-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

On the page I linked to above, not the download link, you will also see a get the beta link.has a get the beta link.  If you follow that, the link to download the beta, the first link offered gives a higher verssion number as below:
https://download.mozilla.org/?product=thunderbird-104.0b2-SSL&os=win64&lang=en-US

I used the copy  link feature of Firefox when I was on the download links.  I am presenting the written out underlying links, not the English wording you see if you just look at the page.

I don't know where you are looking but the page I just gave the link to has correct version availability.

In short, you are using the latest nonbeta version.

Gene
On 8/6/2022 10:48 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Gene,

I can tell you this.  When I use the NVDA keystroke to read the whole screen for desktops insert + B, (useful in dialogues and other things that sometimes don't automatically read) if you listen to all the verbiage, finally at the very end, the status bar is read.  This means that it is still being displayed in some form.


On 8/6/2022 10:52 PM, Gene wrote:
The status bar was not present in the previous version on my machine and it still isn't.

I'm going to check to see if there is even supposed to be a status bar any longer.  We don't know if it has been removed.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.



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On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 01:07 PM, Gene wrote:
but the add-on wasn't necessary before to read the status line so this is really something Mozilla should fix in the program.
-
Possibly, but not necessarily.

There are times when exactly how something is implemented will shift.  We saw a lot of that at the time of the introduction of Windows 10, and Microsoft gave several years of warning of what was coming down the pike.  Screen reader coders then had to add code for those new ways of doing things.

It could be that there has been some sort of implementation shift for the status line.

I don't know for certain about that, but there are times when it's something that the application has accidentally screwed up, and should fix, and at other times its an application change that screen reader developers must accommodate.  So I won't say whose job it is to fix this.

If Javi Dominguez happens to be reading this topic, he could almost certainly shed light on what's actually occurred and whose responsibility "the fix" is.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Gene
 

If the problem is solved in that way, that's good, but the add-on wasn't necessary before to read the status line so this is really something Mozilla should fix in the program.

Gene

On 8/14/2022 11:31 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Unsurprisingly (at least to me) the issue identified in the topic has been recognized by the developer of the Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on and a fix is already in the pipeline, but not yet released.  For details, see the topic: 
Mozilla Inhancment add-on
 in the NVDA Add-Ons Development group.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard



 

Unsurprisingly (at least to me) the issue identified in the topic has been recognized by the developer of the Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on and a fix is already in the pipeline, but not yet released.  For details, see the topic: 
Mozilla Inhancment add-on
 in the NVDA Add-Ons Development group.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard


Curtis Delzer
 

no I hadn't said a thing about any of that, so probably doesn't fit. sorry.

On 8/10/2022 7:36 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
and Curtis,

you are probably one of those who complains about too many message and too high a traffic on lists you are on.  I never complain about this because of my tried and true method of filtering/grouping. Let 'em come; if I am interested they get read and if I'm not they go bye bye!

On 8/10/2022 12:05 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote:

they updated so status bar you can under the view menu enable or disable. 102.1.2.

On 8/6/2022 7:59 PM, Gene wrote:
This may be something NVDA will have to update.  The status bar is still read when using JAWS.  Whether Thunderbird or NVDA should correct the situation is something I'll leave to the two sets of developers.

Gene

On 8/6/2022 9:40 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

Has anyone upgraded Thunderbird to the latest version 102.1.1?  If so, can you read the status bar?  I cannot on my system: Windows 11, 64 bit with latest NVDA 2022.2.


-- 
Curtis Delzer
H.S.
K6VFO
 Rialto, CA
curtis@...

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
-- 
Curtis Delzer
H.S.
K6VFO
 Rialto, CA
curtis@...