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Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC block functionality

Aaron Casper
 

Good Afternoon,

I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.

While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the person with admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by Windows UAC.

The error found in the event logs is as follows:
The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the creation of a child process.

This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without permissions. 

Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take to enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current functionality due to security policies.

Thank you,

Aaron Casper
Jackie
 

Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.

So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?

On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
Good Afternoon,

I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.

While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the person with
admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by
Windows UAC.

The error found in the event logs is as follows:
The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the creation of
a child process.

This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
permissions.

Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take to
enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
functionality due to security policies.

Thank you,

Aaron Casper





--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
Aaron Casper
 

Hi Jackie,

I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood,  it does not install but is unpacked and then ready to use.

Sent from my Metro by T-Mobile Device
Get Outlook for Android

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jackie <abletec@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 6:44:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: {EXT} Re: [nvda] Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC block functionality
 
Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.

So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?

On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
> Good Afternoon,
>
> I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
> Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.
>
> While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the person with
> admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by
> Windows UAC.
>
> The error found in the event logs is as follows:
> The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the creation of
> a child process.
>
> This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
> permissions.
>
> Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take to
> enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
> functionality due to security policies.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Aaron Casper
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jackie McBride
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Jackie
 

Here's from the NVDA user guide:
3.1. Portable and Temporary Copy Restrictions
Apart from the inability to automatically start during and/or after
log-on, the portable and temporary copies of NVDA also have the
following restrictions:
• The inability to interact with applications running with
administrative privileges, unless of course NVDA itself has been run
also with these privileges (not recommended).
• The inability to read User Account Control (UAC) screens when trying
to start an application with administrative privileges.
• Windows 8 and later: the inability to support input from a touchscreen.
• Windows 8 and later: the inability to provide features such as
browse mode and speaking of typed characters in Windows Store apps.
• Windows 8 and later: audio ducking is not supported.

Out of curiosity, where did you install the portable version to?

On 10/26/22, Jackie McBride <abletec@...> wrote:
Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.

So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?

On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
Good Afternoon,

I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.

While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the person
with
admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by
Windows UAC.

The error found in the event logs is as follows:
The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the creation
of
a child process.

This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
permissions.

Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take to
enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
functionality due to security policies.

Thank you,

Aaron Casper






--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
Brian Vogel
 

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 08:18 PM, Aaron Casper wrote:
I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood,  it does not install but is unpacked and then ready to use.
-
I'll split hairs for clarity:  You used the NVDA installer to create a portable version which, as you noted, is not installed because no registry entries are made.  All of the bits and bobs NVDA needs to use are unpacked into the folder of your choosing (which can be on the system drive, but that still doesn't make it installed) and everything it needs to run is contained there.

I honestly have no idea why you'd get any UIA warning for NVDA, portable or installed, unless you were requesting that it be active on the login screen, and that's supported under Windows unless some specialty blocking has been imposed by your IT department.

But this could also be a complication of VDI, which I don't know enough about to comment about further.

I would try actually installing if you have that option to see if that makes any difference.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA  - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014
Jackie
 

Brian, This has gotten split into 2 threads. Could you possibly please
merge them?

On 10/26/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 08:18 PM, Aaron Casper wrote:


I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood,  it does not
install but is unpacked and then ready to use.
-
I'll split hairs for clarity:  You used the NVDA installer to create a
portable version which, as you noted, is not installed because no registry
entries are made.  All of the bits and bobs NVDA needs to use are unpacked
into the folder of your choosing (which can be on the system drive, but that
still doesn't make it installed) and everything it needs to run is contained
there.

I honestly have no idea why you'd get any UIA warning for NVDA, portable or
installed, unless you were requesting that it be active on the login screen,
and that's supported under Windows unless some specialty blocking has been
imposed by your IT department.

But this could also be a complication of VDI, which I don't know enough
about to comment about further.

I would try actually installing if you have that option to see if that makes
any difference.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045

*There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about
themselves by making themselves feel better than others.*

~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post , 7/10/2014





--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
Brian Vogel
 

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 08:47 PM, Jackie wrote:
Could you possibly please merge them?
-
Done before you even asked.  A decent chunk of my administrative time is merging topics that aren't really topics, plural, but a single topic that has been accidentally split.

But I absolutely don't mind the head's up, though you may want to send this kind of thing to the group owner address, as that raises a more immediate flag if it's clear that group admin has somehow missed an accidental split that needs to be merged back together.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA  - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014
Brian Vogel
 

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 09:35 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Now the easiest way would to physically deploy nvda on each system and
give nvda admin access for its tasks.
-
Shaun,

This is neither necessary nor accurate, and I am begging you to cease on this sort of conjecture.  NVDA almost never needs administrative access for most of what it does.

NVAccess has dedicated pages related to deploying NVDA in business and governmental installations, and offer advice and assistance to those who need it.  That is the reliable source for any issue with deploying NVDA on a multi-machine environment in larger organizations.  Unfortunately, at this moment nvaccess.org appears to be down, as I can't get to it from any browser, so I cannot give the URL for that page at the moment.  It's not difficult to find when the site is up. 
--

Brian - Virginia, USA  - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014
hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi


The following page might be of help if it is in the case of a network etc. It should answer most of your questions at https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/


Off my website http://www.accessibilitycentral.net under the link that points to nz libraries it made sence if others wanted to go down that track.




Gene nz


On 27/10/2022 1:18 pm, Aaron Casper wrote:

Hi Jackie,

I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood,  it does not install but is unpacked and then ready to use.

Sent from my Metro by T-Mobile Device
Get Outlook for Android
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jackie <abletec@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 6:44:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: {EXT} Re: [nvda] Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC block functionality
 
Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.

So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?

On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
> Good Afternoon,
>
> I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
> Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.
>
> While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the person with
> admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by
> Windows UAC.
>
> The error found in the event logs is as follows:
> The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the creation of
> a child process.
>
> This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
> permissions.
>
> Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take to
> enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
> functionality due to security policies.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Aaron Casper
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.scam911.org__;!!OxqwZwwAVvYGpJMosQ!drEgz-qV0UgoBjIDwUKZbyYjio85cF0DNiQPhvwsGrkowrFGsE_cOfDcXYQgPTjNhIg7RYi-4PnE$ 
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
Jackie
 

It's up, Brian. There are just things that the portable version can't
do that make using it pretty difficult for the average user, ie, they
can't sign into the login screen, they cant interact w/uac, etc. Yes,
they can turn on Narrator for those things, but that's a productivity
killer & a half.

On 10/26/22, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
Hi


The following page might be of help if it is in the case of a network
etc. It should answer most of your questions at
https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/


Off my website http://www.accessibilitycentral.net under the link that
points to nz libraries it made sence if others wanted to go down that
track.




Gene nz


On 27/10/2022 1:18 pm, Aaron Casper wrote:
Hi Jackie,

I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood,  it does not
install but is unpacked and then ready to use.

Sent from my Metro by T-Mobile Device
Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jackie
<abletec@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2022 6:44:13 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* {EXT} Re: [nvda] Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC
block functionality
Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.

So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?

On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
Good Afternoon,

I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.

While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the
person with
admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by
Windows UAC.

The error found in the event logs is as follows:
The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the
creation of
a child process.

This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
permissions.

Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take
to
enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
functionality due to security policies.

Thank you,

Aaron Casper






--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.scam911.org__;!!OxqwZwwAVvYGpJMosQ!drEgz-qV0UgoBjIDwUKZbyYjio85cF0DNiQPhvwsGrkowrFGsE_cOfDcXYQgPTjNhIg7RYi-4PnE$


Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com









--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
Quentin Christensen
 

You shouldn't need to run NVDA with administrator privileges any more often than you need to run Word with admin privileges.  I'm not familiar with deploying on a VDI, but in general, it should work, I expect, like deploying any other piece of software under such an environment.

Quentin.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 2:02 PM Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
It's up, Brian. There are just things that the portable version can't
do that make using it pretty difficult for the average user, ie, they
can't sign into the login screen, they cant interact w/uac, etc. Yes,
they can turn on Narrator for those things, but that's a productivity
killer & a half.

On 10/26/22, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> The following page might be of help if it is in the case of a network
> etc. It should answer most of your questions at
> https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/
>
>
> Off my website http://www.accessibilitycentral.net under the link that
> points to nz libraries it made sence if others wanted to go down that
> track.
>
>
>
>
> Gene nz
>
>
> On 27/10/2022 1:18 pm, Aaron Casper wrote:
>> Hi Jackie,
>>
>> I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood,  it does not
>> install but is unpacked and then ready to use.
>>
>> Sent from my Metro by T-Mobile Device
>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jackie
>> <abletec@...>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2022 6:44:13 PM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* {EXT} Re: [nvda] Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC
>> block functionality
>> Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
>> w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.
>>
>> So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?
>>
>> On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
>> > Good Afternoon,
>> >
>> > I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
>> > Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.
>> >
>> > While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the
>> person with
>> > admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by
>> > Windows UAC.
>> >
>> > The error found in the event logs is as follows:
>> > The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the
>> creation of
>> > a child process.
>> >
>> > This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
>> > permissions.
>> >
>> > Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take
>> > to
>> > enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
>> > functionality due to security policies.
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Aaron Casper
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jackie McBride
>> Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.scam911.org__;!!OxqwZwwAVvYGpJMosQ!drEgz-qV0UgoBjIDwUKZbyYjio85cF0DNiQPhvwsGrkowrFGsE_cOfDcXYQgPTjNhIg7RYi-4PnE$
>>
>>
>> Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Gene
 

I would imagine you can have Narrator come on automatically in such cases.  That being the case, I don't think using NVDA portably imposes much limitations.

Gene

On 10/26/2022 10:02 PM, Jackie wrote:
It's up, Brian. There are just things that the portable version can't
do that make using it pretty difficult for the average user, ie, they
can't sign into the login screen, they cant interact w/uac, etc. Yes,
they can turn on Narrator for those things, but that's a productivity
killer & a half.

On 10/26/22, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
Hi


The following page might be of help if it is in the case of a network
etc. It should answer most of your questions at
https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/


Off my website http://www.accessibilitycentral.net under the link that
points to nz libraries it made sence if others wanted to go down that
track.




Gene nz


On 27/10/2022 1:18 pm, Aaron Casper wrote:
Hi Jackie,

I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood,  it does not
install but is unpacked and then ready to use.

Sent from my Metro by T-Mobile Device
Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jackie
<abletec@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2022 6:44:13 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* {EXT} Re: [nvda] Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC
block functionality
Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.

So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?

On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
Good Afternoon,

I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
Infrastructure]  environment, which runs Windows 10.

While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the
person with
admin rights), no other user can run it.  The application is blocked by
Windows UAC.

The error found in the event logs is as follows:
The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the
creation of
a child process.

This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
permissions.

Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take
to
enable use of this tool?  We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
functionality due to security policies.

Thank you,

Aaron Casper





--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.scam911.org__;!!OxqwZwwAVvYGpJMosQ!drEgz-qV0UgoBjIDwUKZbyYjio85cF0DNiQPhvwsGrkowrFGsE_cOfDcXYQgPTjNhIg7RYi-4PnE$


Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
Brian's Mail list account
 

The question is though, why would you only want to use a portable version when the proper installed version can be installed either for all users or just the users you want separately?
Portable is good for the normal user, but not really suited for corporate use when security is paramount. Brian

--
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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jackie" <abletec@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2022 4:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC block functionality


It's up, Brian. There are just things that the portable version can't
do that make using it pretty difficult for the average user, ie, they
can't sign into the login screen, they cant interact w/uac, etc. Yes,
they can turn on Narrator for those things, but that's a productivity
killer & a half.

On 10/26/22, hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:
Hi


The following page might be of help if it is in the case of a network
etc. It should answer most of your questions at
https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/


Off my website http://www.accessibilitycentral.net under the link that
points to nz libraries it made sence if others wanted to go down that
track.




Gene nz


On 27/10/2022 1:18 pm, Aaron Casper wrote:
Hi Jackie,

I used the portable installer, unless I misunderstood, it does not
install but is unpacked and then ready to use.

Sent from my Metro by T-Mobile Device
Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jackie
<abletec@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2022 6:44:13 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* {EXT} Re: [nvda] Deploying NVDA, seeing Windows 10 UAC
block functionality
Aaron, this sounds like NVDA is being run as a program
w/administrative privileges, which, of course, it shouldn't.

So let me ask you--did NVDA actually install to the desktop or no?

On 10/26/22, acasper@... <acasper@...> wrote:
Good Afternoon,

I've been tasked with deploying NVDA to a VDI [Virtual Desktop
Infrastructure] environment, which runs Windows 10.

While the NVDA portable install seems to work fine for me (the
person with
admin rights), no other user can run it. The application is blocked by
Windows UAC.

The error found in the event logs is as follows:
The process failed to handle ERROR_ELEVATION_REQUIRED during the
creation of
a child process.

This seems to indicate that NVDA is trying to elevate itself without
permissions.

Can someone clarify why this might happen, and what steps we can take
to
enable use of this tool? We cannot disable UAC or limit it's current
functionality due to security policies.

Thank you,

Aaron Casper






--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.scam911.org__;!!OxqwZwwAVvYGpJMosQ!drEgz-qV0UgoBjIDwUKZbyYjio85cF0DNiQPhvwsGrkowrFGsE_cOfDcXYQgPTjNhIg7RYi-4PnE$


Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com










--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com
Aaron Casper
 

Looking at the documentation again (after reading your suggestions) it seems I misunderstood the purpose of the portable installer when we started this project.

We are going to begin testing with the non-portable release in our next vdisk version, fingers crossed that this is the cause.

Thank you all for your helpful input!

-Aaron Casper
Quentin Christensen
 

You're welcome!  Do let us know if you run into any issues.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 2:36 AM Aaron Casper <acasper@...> wrote:
Looking at the documentation again (after reading your suggestions) it seems I misunderstood the purpose of the portable installer when we started this project.

We are going to begin testing with the non-portable release in our next vdisk version, fingers crossed that this is the cause.

Thank you all for your helpful input!

-Aaron Casper



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
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