NVDA 2022.3.1 focus unstable on the groups.io web interface


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I just reinstalled NVDA 2022.3.1 from the executable file because I got the error message when I did a manual check for updates that indicates that my installation was corrupted.  Everything was find when I restarted the computer after the reinstall.  Now I've come across another problem.  When I try to navigate the groups.io interface after turning on my computer this morning, the NVDA focus is unstable.  This happens in both browse and focus modes.  I thought that the "Report Dynamic content changes" setting might be the cause, so I turned it off.  I also restarted the computer (not just shut down), and neither change helped.  I am going to reinstall NVDA to see if that fixes things.  Has anyone else come across this?

Thanks,

Louise

NVDA 2022.3.1
Windows 10 Pro Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.2130)


 

Louise,

Try the COM Registration Fixing tool before you go the step of uninstalling and reinstalling (which is the logical next step if the tool doesn't give the wished result).
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I remembered the com registration fixing tool after I'd sent the original post, and ran it before uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA, but neither step worked.  I also noticed that focus seems to jump around in file explorer windows.  I could be wrong about losing focus, but I'm going by the verbal feedback I'm getting, which seems to be a bunch of interrupted spoken messages being read from all over the place.

Thanks,

Louise


 

Louise,

I feel your pain, particularly since this is a third level dot release.  It's really not common for minor releases, which is what I consider any third dot level release, to introduce significant problems.

I don't quite know what to tell you other than to uninstall 2022.3.1 and reinstall 2022.3 to see if that reverts things to normal.

For anyone who might need an earlier version of NVDA, they are all downloadable from the NVAccess site.  Just replace the version number in both instances in this link and you'll get any version you want.
https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2019.3/nvda_2019.3.exe
So for NVDA 2022.3, that would be:  https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2022.3/nvda_2022.3.exe 

I know that 2022.4 can't be too terribly far off at this point since the beta (several so far, I think) is out.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Gene
 

I would say to try the following things, not necessarily in the order I wrote them:
First, see if you have the same problems with another screen-reader such as Narrator and/or a JAWS demo.

Also, you might try running a portable version of an earlier version of NVDA to see if you have the same problems.

Try running NVDA with add-ons disabled.

Also, sending a log to someone with the technical knowledge to understand it might help.  I'm not sure loggs should be sent to the list any longer so we'll see what is said about that. 

Gene
On 10/27/2022 4:46 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:

Hi.  I remembered the com registration fixing tool after I'd sent the original post, and ran it before uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA, but neither step worked.  I also noticed that focus seems to jump around in file explorer windows.  I could be wrong about losing focus, but I'm going by the verbal feedback I'm getting, which seems to be a bunch of interrupted spoken messages being read from all over the place.

Thanks,

Louise


Quentin Christensen
 

We are aware of a couple of issues introduced with the 2022.3.1 release.  But not like you're describing.  If you haven't yet gone back to 2022.3, could you get me a debug log of the issue please?  And if you have gone back to the earlier release (or if you do) - has it fixed it?

To get a copy of your log:

First of all, your NVDA key is either INSERT or CAPS LOCK, depending on how you have NVDA setup.  So, to set your log level:
1) Press NVDA+control+g to open the general settings
2) Press TAB until the focus is on 'Log level'
3) Press DOWN ARROW to get to 'Debug'
4) Press ENTER to close settings
5) Press NVDA+control+c to save settings.

To restart NVDA with add-ons disabled:
1) Press NVDA+Q
2) Down arrow to 'Restart with add-ons disabled'
3) Press ENTER

Next, recreate the issue - do whatever causes problems.

To get NVDA's log after that, there are several ways:

If NVDA is still running and usable:
1) Press NVDA+F1 to open the log viewer
2) Press CONTROL+A to select all.
3) Press CONTROL+C to copy.
4) Open your email and start a message to info@..., type a little about what you have done and what has happened in the body of the message, then leave a space and:
5) Press CONTROL+V to paste the copied log.

Instead of using the log viewer, or if NVDA has stopped and you needed to restart it or the computer:
1) Press WINDOWS+R to open Windows' Run dialog
2) Type %temp% and press ENTER (that's the percent sign, the letter t e m p and another percent sign).  Windows Explorer should open to the temporary folder.
3) Press TAB to move to the file list
4) Press N and move down to find up to three files:  nvda.log (the log file for the current or most recent NVDA session), nvda-old.log (the log from the previous session) and nvda-crash.dmp (a crash dump with more information created if NVDA itself crashes).
5) Depending on what email program you use, the steps will be different, but attach as many of those three files to an email to info@... as will be useful, and again in the body of the message describe a bit about what has happened.


On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 8:59 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I would say to try the following things, not necessarily in the order I wrote them:
First, see if you have the same problems with another screen-reader such as Narrator and/or a JAWS demo.

Also, you might try running a portable version of an earlier version of NVDA to see if you have the same problems.

Try running NVDA with add-ons disabled.

Also, sending a log to someone with the technical knowledge to understand it might help.  I'm not sure loggs should be sent to the list any longer so we'll see what is said about that. 

Gene
On 10/27/2022 4:46 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
Hi.  I remembered the com registration fixing tool after I'd sent the original post, and ran it before uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA, but neither step worked.  I also noticed that focus seems to jump around in file explorer windows.  I could be wrong about losing focus, but I'm going by the verbal feedback I'm getting, which seems to be a bunch of interrupted spoken messages being read from all over the place.

Thanks,

Louise



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


 

Gene,

Excellent advice.  Since Louise had already mentioned she'd restarted the machine, and also afterward that she'd run the COM registration fixing tool, I jumped to the conclusion that she had probably already done the trifecta listed in, The Most Basic Troubleshooting Steps for Suspected NVDA Issues

 

 
If not, restarting with add-ons disabled is #3.

But since Quentin has jumped in, he's the leader now.  It's critical when stuff like this happens to collect log information when requested and get it to the folks who can analyze it and fix issues.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  When I tried to roll back to NVDA 2022.3, I got a message indicating that the version I wanted to install was earlier than the version I had installed, which makes no sense because I had previously uninstalled NVDA using the "Uninstall NVDA" option in the NVDA menu found in "All Programs".  I will send the logs as requested and escalate this to NV Access.

Thanks,

Louise


 

Hi,

Actually, the previous version text is correct - NVDA instlaler checks the timestamp for nvda.exe.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 07:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Actually, the previous version text is correct - NVDA instlaler checks the timestamp for nvda.exe.
-
I don't follow.  Louise stated, "which makes no sense because I had previously uninstalled NVDA using the "Uninstall NVDA" option in the NVDA menu found in "All Programs"."

If I've done a complete uninstall, prior to doing a reinstall using any installer, there should be no existing nvda.exe to check, should there?  If there is, then I do not understand what's going on in any way.  Uninstalled as far as registry entries and files in the install folders should mean those are gone, gone, gone.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Quentin Christensen
 

The message Louise got about installing an older version of NVDA is presented when you are trying to, as the message indicates, install a copy of NVDA over one which is newer.  If she has completely uninstalled NVDA then you shouldn't get that message, although if she has just uninstalled it and hasn't yet restarted the PC before installing the other version, maybe something is still hanging about.

Also, when you uninstall NVDA, as with many programs, it removes the program files, but leaves your settings.  There are issues on GitHub around whether this should be handled differently (Do please comment on those if you feel passionately one way or another).

Quentin.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:37 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 07:31 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Actually, the previous version text is correct - NVDA instlaler checks the timestamp for nvda.exe.
-
I don't follow.  Louise stated, "which makes no sense because I had previously uninstalled NVDA using the "Uninstall NVDA" option in the NVDA menu found in "All Programs"."

If I've done a complete uninstall, prior to doing a reinstall using any installer, there should be no existing nvda.exe to check, should there?  If there is, then I do not understand what's going on in any way.  Uninstalled as far as registry entries and files in the install folders should mean those are gone, gone, gone.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


 

Hi,

It might be possible that program files were not completely revmoed due to some DLL's and executables in use in other programs. This is why sometimes you need to restart your computer after removing NVDA.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

I honestly can't remember the last time I uninstalled NVDA, but if it is not giving the user a message at the end of uninstall that a restart is required to complete the process, even if that's only possibly necessary, it should.

That's been a pretty standard convention with programs that do (or may) require a restart to complete an uninstall for some time now.

If it already does, then ignore the above.  I don't wish to uninstall NVDA on this machine to verify.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


 

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 07:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Also, when you uninstall NVDA, as with many programs, it removes the program files, but leaves your settings.  There are issues on GitHub around whether this should be handled differently (Do please comment on those if you feel passionately one way or another).
-
Quentin,

Might you have specific issue numbers in mind?  I've a GitHub search using the terms [settings remove uninstall] but isn't returning what I believe you intend.  The closest is issue #9596, which you opened in 2019, and its a "loose fit."

For me, the only passionate feeling is allowing choice.  For something like NVDA, I personally believe the default should be retaining user settings unless the user selects removal.  Many version updates are performed not from within NVDA, but by manual download of the installer and doing an install-over install.  Things could get really, really ugly were this to result in removal of user settings (and I'd have to presume this would include add-ons, since the user adds them) by default.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014


Quentin Christensen
 

Brian,

Yes there are two which I can think of:

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6869 is around the uninstall routine offering the user the choice to remove add-ons etc during uninstall.  And inspired by a comment on that issue, I created https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9596 which you found, around checking for previous settings when you install NVDA.  As you say, giving the user the choice is really important, and because a lot of users, like Louise, uninstall or reinstall NVDA to try to fix problems, it's definitely worth checking in both cases - as if the problem you want to fix is caused by an add-on or a saved setting, then reinstalling isn't going to help if it keeps those.

And to your other question, I was fairly sure, but just uninstalled NVDA to confirm - it does present a window at the end to say "Completing NVDA uninstall.   Your computer must be restarted in order to complete the uninstallation of NVDA.  Do you want to reboot now?"  with radio buttons for "Reboot now" (the default) and "I want to manually reboot later".

So yes, we definitely do strongly nudge users to reboot after uninstalling NVDA.

Now, I guess I better go and reboot :)

Quentin.

On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 11:40 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 07:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Also, when you uninstall NVDA, as with many programs, it removes the program files, but leaves your settings.  There are issues on GitHub around whether this should be handled differently (Do please comment on those if you feel passionately one way or another).
-
Quentin,

Might you have specific issue numbers in mind?  I've a GitHub search using the terms [settings remove uninstall] but isn't returning what I believe you intend.  The closest is issue #9596, which you opened in 2019, and its a "loose fit."

For me, the only passionate feeling is allowing choice.  For something like NVDA, I personally believe the default should be retaining user settings unless the user selects removal.  Many version updates are performed not from within NVDA, but by manual download of the installer and doing an install-over install.  Things could get really, really ugly were this to result in removal of user settings (and I'd have to presume this would include add-ons, since the user adds them) by default.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045  

There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.

    ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Brian's Mail list account
 

What I do now if having problems is to create a copy as a portable version on the main drive and of course, put in a shortcut somewhere. Then if it all goes wrong you can delete absolutely everything and re install from the portable version, add ons and settings and all except of course for those that affect start up.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2022.3.1 focus unstable on the groups.io web interface


On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 07:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:


Also, when you uninstall NVDA, as with many programs, it removes the
program files, but leaves your settings. There are issues on GitHub
around whether this should be handled differently (Do please comment on
those if you feel passionately one way or another).
-
Quentin,

Might you have specific issue numbers in mind? I've a GitHub search using the terms [settings remove uninstall] but isn't returning what I believe you intend. The closest is issue #9596, which you opened in 2019, and its a "loose fit."

For me, the only passionate feeling is allowing choice. For something like NVDA, I personally believe the default should be retaining user settings unless the user selects removal. Many version updates are performed not from within NVDA, but by manual download of the installer and doing an install-over install. Things could get really, really ugly were this to result in removal of user settings (and I'd have to presume this would include add-ons, since the user adds them) by default.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045

*There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.*

~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post , 7/10/2014


Brian's Mail list account
 

Yes and for the record, Even microsoft updates can fail because remnants and registry entries sometimes get left behind. I used Ccleaner to enable a security update to install on one machine two weeks ago. Something to do with pointing at shared dlls that had been moved or taken away.
Brian

--
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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2022.3.1 focus unstable on the groups.io web interface


Hi,

It might be possible that program files were not completely revmoed due to some DLL's and executables in use in other programs. This is why sometimes you need to restart your computer after removing NVDA.

Cheers,

Joseph


Brian's Mail list account
 

I would like to know a couple of things here. Now I do not normally use the web interface to these groups, but the original poster mentioned strange behaviour in explorer, which sounds far more serious to me. Could there possibly be some updated piece of software using a display mode that nvda knows nothing about? An old version of an Intel security program used to do daft things like this till I disabled it in start up. I notice updated versions no longer have the issue.

This is why a log would be important here, since if they are the only person with the issue, it points to corruption or some outside influence. I'd also try different browsers on the site.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2022.3.1 focus unstable on the groups.io web interface


I honestly can't remember the last time I uninstalled NVDA, but if it is not giving the user a message at the end of uninstall that a restart is required to complete the process, even if that's only possibly necessary, it should.

That's been a pretty standard convention with programs that do (or may) require a restart to complete an uninstall for some time now.

If it already does, then ignore the above. I don't wish to uninstall NVDA on this machine to verify.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045

*There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others.*

~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post , 7/10/2014


Sarah k Alawami
 

Except in my case when I did that I still had a corrupted install, that was one in a million chance, and it just happen to happen to me. It is a risk, my portable copy was corrupted and I had no idea until then. Lol!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via groups.io
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 4:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2022.3.1 focus unstable on the groups.io web interface

What I do now if having problems is to create a copy as a portable version on the main drive and of course, put in a shortcut somewhere. Then if it all goes wrong you can delete absolutely everything and re install from the portable version, add ons and settings and all except of course for those that affect start up.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2022.3.1 focus unstable on the groups.io web
interface


On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 07:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:


Also, when you uninstall NVDA, as with many programs, it removes the
program files, but leaves your settings. There are issues on GitHub
around whether this should be handled differently (Do please comment on
those if you feel passionately one way or another).
-
Quentin,

Might you have specific issue numbers in mind? I've a GitHub search using
the terms [settings remove uninstall] but isn't returning what I believe you
intend. The closest is issue #9596, which you opened in 2019, and its a
"loose fit."

For me, the only passionate feeling is allowing choice. For something like
NVDA, I personally believe the default should be retaining user settings
unless the user selects removal. Many version updates are performed not from
within NVDA, but by manual download of the installer and doing an
install-over install. Things could get really, really ugly were this to
result in removal of user settings (and I'd have to presume this would
include add-ons, since the user adds them) by default.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045

*There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about
themselves by making themselves feel better than others.*

~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post , 7/10/2014


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I'm responding to several points here.  I rebooted the computer through the "uninstall" dialog.  I would have done so in any case, but the "Restart now" radio button was selected by default.  I had selected a picture of me and my nephew as my desktop background some time ago, but JAWS, Narrator, and earlier versions of NVDA were not affected, so I didn't think that was the problem.  My mother has a similar picture as her desktop background, and there is no problem with the display there either, so I knew I could set up the same kind of thing.  She has a copy of NVDA on her computer for when I go visit her, but I won't be able to confirm the exact version number until I go visit her again.  I am now awaiting a response from NV Access technical support, and I will post updated information to this thread when I receive it.  I appreciate all the assistance though.

Thanks,

Louise