It's the same command as routing the JAWS cursor, Insert Plus.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 December 2022 13:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

No. I'm not talking about sighted users being shown where you are working. I'm saying that browse mode doesn't work directly with the web page and it is not aligned on some web pages so when you switch to the underlying page by switching to focus mode, you may not be where you expect to be. I tried this with highlight cursor, I believe that is the name on, and the results were the same.

JAWS has a command to align the two representations of the page. I don't recall what it is but there are times you need to use that command in JAWS to have you be at the same place. That's the same problem I'm discussing.

Gene

On 12/16/2022 6:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

It's because virtual cursors don't by default, scroll the screen, unless you have some kind of focus highlight turned on.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 14 December 2022 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is.

Gene

On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is,
why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when
I've made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the
site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL
_
0
pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if
learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but
by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object
navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when
Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site
more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page.
NVDA creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing
that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how
to use object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a
link to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I
check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than
my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the
GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus
mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to
where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this
list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter,
but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press
escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page,
where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to
the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then
activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a
separate cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

.

It's because virtual cursors don't by default, scroll the screen, unless you have some kind of focus highlight turned on.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 14 December 2022 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is.

Gene

On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is,
why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when
I've made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the
site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL
_
0
pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if
learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but
by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object
navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when
Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site
more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page.
NVDA creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing
that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how
to use object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a
link to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I
check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than
my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the
GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus
mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to
where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this
list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter,
but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press
escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page,
where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to
the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then
activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a
separate cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

.

It's because virtual cursors don't by default, scroll the screen, unless you have some kind of focus highlight turned on.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 14 December 2022 16:18
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is.

Gene

On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is,
why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when
I've made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the
site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_
0
pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if
learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but
by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object
navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when
Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site
more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page.
NVDA creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing
that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how
to use object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a
link to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I
check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my
personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail
interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode
is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where
I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not
too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since
focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to
return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know
I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button
that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus
mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a
separate cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

.

Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is,
why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when
I've made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the
site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_
0
pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if
learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but
by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object
navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when
Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site
more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page.
NVDA creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing
that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how
to use object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a
link to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I
check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my
personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail
interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode
is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where
I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not
too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since
focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to
return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know
I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button
that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus
mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a
separate cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

.

Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why
am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've
made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the
site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_0
pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if
learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but
by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object
navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when
Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site
more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA
creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing
that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to
use object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link
to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I
check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my
personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail
interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is
automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I
am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too
long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus
mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to
browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must
then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads
basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am
not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a
separate cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 04:31 PM, Gene wrote:

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. 

-
And as a sighted instructor, this is one of the things that made (and continues to make) me most insane.  It's one of the reasons that Focus Highlight in NVDA is a lifesaver for those of us who can see, because it forces the virtual cursor position and the on-screen positions to remain in sync.

For years it was insanity making to even try to determine where the user actually was in a webpage, etc., when there was no effort to keep what's on screen and what's being accessed in sync with each other.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why
am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've
made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the
site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_0
pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if
learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but
by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object
navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when
Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site
more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA
creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing
that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to
use object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link
to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I
check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my
personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail
interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is
automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I
am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too
long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus
mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to
browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must
then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads
basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am
not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a
separate cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

I got the impression he in fact was querying about the way the focus mode is triggered on the first edit or interactive element that can be changed.

This behaviour can of course be changed, but only globally not for each web site.
Brian

To put it differently, to a sighted user, browse mode doesn't even exist.

So when you move to what you consider to be the top of a page, you're just
moving on a blind-friendly rendering of that page.

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors. The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my
email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one,
I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but
rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically
activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that
was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am
placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically
activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the
top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order
to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I
then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as
expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate
cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

NVDA Settings, Vision Pane.  You'll find the Focus Highlight checkbox there.
--

Hi Bob,


browse mode does not have a top or bottom.

To put it differently, to a sighted user, browse mode doesn't even exist.

So when you move to what you consider to be the top of a page, you're just moving on a blind-friendly rendering of that page.

Once you go into focus mode, you can interact with the page in a way that will present elements or forms in tab order like a sighted person would traverse them when using the tab key.

.

I'm not sure how to better help you with that notion, but I hope it can at least clear some of your confusions.


Regards,

Nermin

Regarding my suggestion, it may be a bit complicated.  Evidently, Focus highlight won't work when using a portable copy of NVDA.  Is there a way to keep the synchronization in a way that will work in both the portable and installed versions?

Since focus highlight seems not to work in a portable copy, perhaps having it on by default isn't the way to accomplish this, but there should be a way.

Gene

On 11/25/2022 3:31 PM, Gene wrote:

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page.  You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth.  That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode.  I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why
am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've
made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet.  If you discuss the problems you have working with the site,
those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_0pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning
object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening
to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation
in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't
responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently
without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor.  The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA
creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that
is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use
object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation.  I can find a link
to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my
email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one,
I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but
rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically
activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that
was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am
placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically
activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the
top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order
to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I
then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as
expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate
cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page.  You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth.  That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode.  I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi Gene,
I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have
been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the
Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why
am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've
made sure of it in Browse mode?

On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the
Internet.  If you discuss the problems you have working with the site,
those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better.
The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various
situations is:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_0pi9AcHc3WjZ

Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning
object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening
to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation
in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't
responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently
without constantly switching between focus and browse modes.


On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote:

To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor.  The
whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors.
The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA
creates and uses it.

You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that
is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use
object navigation, if you don't.

I created a tutorial on using object navigation.  I can find a link
to it and send it to you if you wish.

Gene
On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my
email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one,
I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but
rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically
activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that
was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am
placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically
activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the
top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order
to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I
then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as
expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in.
So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate
cursor?
Thanks,
Bob

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 04:31 PM, Gene wrote:

Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. 

-
And as a sighted instructor, this is one of the things that made (and continues to make) me most insane.  It's one of the reasons that Focus Highlight in NVDA is a lifesaver for those of us who can see, because it forces the virtual cursor position and the on-screen positions to remain in sync.

For years it was insanity making to even try to determine where the user actually was in a webpage, etc., when there was no effort to keep what's on screen and what's being accessed in sync with each other.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson